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Hey everyone,

I was just filling out the information for EEA(PR) application (document certifying permanent residence).

I have been in the UK for approximately 9 years now; my parents - more than 12 years.

1) In section 1 C - I'm able to include my family members in the application (I wanted to pay/fill out the application for my mom and dad). Point 1.29 states "Relationship to sponsor". This may sound a tad stupid but I want to make sure that the application is filled out correctly. Anyway my question is - in point 1.29 I should write "Son"? I've never really observed the usage of "sponsor" when it comes to family relationship.

2) After studying for 4 years I was looking for work for 2 months but due to having no experience it was impossible to find anything, therefore I was on jobseekers allowance at the time (for 2 months). I have evidence of my appointments as well as I have kept the card. Will this gap of 2 months be an issue? To briefly summarize - after studying for 4 years I had a gap of 2 months, after which I started working and continued to work for the last 4.5 years.

Thanks.

ModestWisdom wrote:Hey everyone,

I was just filling out the information for EEA(PR) application (document certifying permanent residence).

I have been in the UK for approximately 9 years now; my parents - more than 12 years.

1) In section 1 C - I'm able to include my family members in the application (I wanted to pay/fill out the application for my mom and dad). Point 1.29 states "Relationship to sponsor". This may sound a tad stupid but I want to make sure that the application is filled out correctly. Anyway my question is - in point 1.29 I should write "Son"? I've never really observed the usage of "sponsor" when it comes to family relationship.

2) After studying for 4 years I was looking for work for 2 months but due to having no experience it was impossible to find anything, therefore I was on jobseekers allowance at the time (for 2 months). I have evidence of my appointments as well as I have kept the card. Will this gap of 2 months be an issue? To briefly summarize - after studying for 4 years I had a gap of 2 months, after which I started working and continued to work for the last 4.5 years.

Thanks.

1) Who is the EEA sponsor who exercised treaty rights as a qualified person?
The relationship is stated towards them.

2) Not an issue if you have good evidence of jobseeking status.

Just as importantly, did you have CSI as a student?

Ofcourse you will need rock-solid evidence for every relevant category of qualified person that the sponsor falls into.

noajthan wrote:
1) Who is the EEA sponsor who exercised treaty rights as a qualified person?
The relationship is stated towards them.

2) Not an issue if you have good evidence of jobseeking status.

Just as importantly, did you have CSI as a student?

Ofcourse you will need rock-solid evidence for every relevant category of qualified person that the sponsor falls into.

Hey noajthan,

Thank you for a swift response - I appreciate it.

1) Could you please rephrase your first point? As I am completely puzzled; and perhaps I should simply print out 3 forms each and ask my parents to submit them individually rather than me filling out all the details and sending everything as one thing? Although I do think that it would be best for me/them to have all the details together (me and my parents) rather than individually.

2) No I have never had CSI as a student. I have never even heard of CSI until now (I just googled it). Would I still require CSI despite the fact that I was relying on my parents to support me at the time (when I was studying)? Also not sure whether this helps but I'm from Lithuania (so are my parents) - a country which joined the EU in 2004.

ModestWisdom wrote:Hey noajthan,

Thank you for a swift response - I appreciate it.

1) Could you please rephrase your first point? As I am completely puzzled; and perhaps I should simply print out 3 forms each and ask my parents to submit them individually rather than me filling out all the details and sending everything as one thing? Although I do think that it would be best for me/them to have all the details together (me and my parents) rather than individually.

2) No I have never had CSI as a student. I have never even heard of CSI until now (I just googled it). Would I still require CSI despite the fact that I was relying on my parents to support me at the time (when I was studying)? Also not sure whether this helps but I'm from Lithuania (so are my parents) - a country which joined the EU in 2004.

1) Who is the main applicant: is it you?

Who is the person who is an EEA national who has exercised treaty rights (eg as worker, self-employed, student etc)?
Is it one of your parents?
Are you a direct family member/dependent of a parent for the purpose of this application?
If so are you under or over age 21?

2) If you did not have CSI (or foreign EHIC or RC issued in/before 2011) you have a problem and cannot count your carefree student days if you are applying in your own right.

So back to #1 are you a family dependent or applying in own right?

What is your timeline & list of activities in UK?
If you have a sponsor what is their timeline/activities?
Has either party enjoyed any prolonged absences from UK since arriving?

noajthan wrote: 1) Who is the main applicant: is it you?

Who is the person who is an EEA national who has exercised treaty rights (eg as worker, self-employed, student etc)?
Is it one of your parents?
Are you a direct family member/dependent of a parent for the purpose of this application?
If so are you under or over age 21?

2) If you did not have CSI (or foreign EHIC or RC issued in/before 2011) you have a problem and cannot count your carefree student days if you are applying in your own right.

So back to #1 are you a family dependent or applying in own right?

What is your timeline & list of activities in UK?
If you have a sponsor what is their timeline/activities?
Has either party enjoyed any prolonged absences from UK since arriving?

1) Yes, I mentioned in the first post that I was just filling out the form for myself & my parents as well, I wanted to include them in one envelope/form rather than 3 of us doing it individually.

I'm still a bit confused about "Who is the person who is an EEA national who has exercised treaty rights?". Is there another way for you to phrase this question/statement? I am also going to briefly summarize everything so far and provide you with a small timeline of things, it should be a bit easier for you to understand/help me.

Both of my parents have been here for over 12 years.

I am 25 years old, I do not depend on my parents. I have worked for the last ~4.5 years; before that I was studying for 4 years. We are all living together (we always have) and I contribute towards rent/bills, you could say that we split/share everything.

2) No one has ever told me anything about CSI and while I was studying I was completely relying on my parents (I was living with them - they bought food, paid bills).

It seems to me that perhaps I should make my mom/dad the sponsor in this case since you mentioned the whole CSI thing. The only issue here would be that my father is self-employed and if I'm not mistaken the government never really likes the proof/documents of those who are self-employed. Perhaps I should make my mom sponsor then? She has worked for Marriott hotel a very long time ago, after which she was self-employed and eventually she got a job within a company. Neither of my parents have been away from the UK for more than 2 weeks (if I'm not mistaken). They have simply went back to my country for a short amount of time to meet the relatives a few times.

Sorry to post again noajthan but I was able to find one of your previous posts, please see the link below:



Does this apply to me..? My mom/dad have been working for over 10 years and I was under 21 when I was studying.

ModestWisdom wrote:1) Yes, I mentioned in the first post that I was just filling out the form for myself & my parents as well, I wanted to include them in one envelope/form rather than 3 of us doing it individually.

I'm still a bit confused about "Who is the person who is an EEA national who has exercised treaty rights?". Is there another way for you to phrase this question/statement? I am also going to briefly summarize everything so far and provide you with a small timeline of things, it should be a bit easier for you to understand/help me.

Both of my parents have been here for over 12 years.

I am 25 years old, I do not depend on my parents. I have worked for the last ~4.5 years; before that I was studying for 4 years. We are all living together (we always have) and I contribute towards rent/bills, you could say that we split/share everything.

2) No one has ever told me anything about CSI and while I was studying I was completely relying on my parents (I was living with them - they bought food, paid bills).

It seems to me that perhaps I should make my mom/dad the sponsor in this case since you mentioned the whole CSI thing. The only issue here would be that my father is self-employed and if I'm not mistaken the government never really likes the proof/documents of those who are self-employed. Perhaps I should make my mom sponsor then? She has worked for Marriott hotel a very long time ago, after which she was self-employed and eventually she got a job within a company. Neither of my parents have been away from the UK for more than 2 weeks (if I'm not mistaken). They have simply went back to my country for a short amount of time to meet the relatives a few times.

Yes you did mention it but you haven't said who is the main applicant. 1 of you has to be.

HO has no problem with selfemployed qualified persons as long as supporting evidence is rock-solid (if not unimpeachable).
They also apply their somewhat controversial PET/MET test to workers and the selfemployed (which is over and beyond EU law) but not much you can do about that.

If you don't have CSI/EHIC/RC your student years won't count. So you have a big gap in your timeline and PR clock will have been stopped.

So probably better if parent sponsors you.
The relevant qualifying period does not have to be the last 5 years.

if during the qualifying period you were under 21 its easy, just prove they're your parent.
If during any of the qualifying period you were over 21, you have to prove financial dependency on your sponsor/parent.

If possible, choose a 5 years period when all of you were in UK, one parent has good evidence of treaty rights and, by the end of it, you were still under 21.

Get up to speed here first - on qualified persons (see sections about selfemployed & students):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

& here - about direct family members (see section about dependency):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

Informed by the above, suggest draw up everyone's timelines;
see who has no gaps, no holes;
see who has the best supporting evidence (did I mention it needs to be rock-solid);
have a go at filling the form - choose one main applicant: the qualified person; 2 family members (their activities in UK are immaterial);
see how it all hangs together.

ModestWisdom wrote:Sorry to post again noajthan but I was able to find one of your previous posts, please see the link below:



Does this apply to me..? My mom/dad have been working for over 10 years and I was under 21 when I was studying.

Yep, just explained all that - see above.

noajthan wrote:Yes you did mention it but you haven't said who is the main applicant. 1 of you has to be.

HO has no problem with selfemployed qualified persons as long as supporting evidence is rock-solid (if not unimpeachable).
They also apply their somewhat controversial PET/MET test to workers and the selfemployed (which is over and beyond EU law) but not much you can do about that.

If you don't have CSI/EHIC/RC your student years won't count. So you have a big gap in your timeline and PR clock will have been stopped.

So probably better if parent sponsors you.
The relevant qualifying period does not have to be the last 5 years.

if during the qualifying period you were under 21 its easy, just prove they're your parent.
If during any of the qualifying period you were over 21, you have to prove financial dependency on your sponsor/parent.

If possible, choose a 5 years period when all of you were in UK, one parent has good evidence of treaty rights and, by the end of it, you were still under 21.

Get up to speed here first - on qualified persons (see sections about selfemployed & students):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

& here - about direct family members (see section about dependency):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

Informed by the above, suggest draw up everyone's timelines;
see who has no gaps, no holes;
see who has the best supporting evidence (did I mention it needs to be rock-solid);
have a go at filling the form - choose one main applicant: the qualified person; 2 family members (their activities in UK are immaterial);
see how it all hangs together.

This application form is so depressing, I am finding it really hard to actually concentrate and think... Normally I tend to deal with any issues quite "easily", whereas now I am panicking.

I find it really shocking what you said about my years spent studying (they're not going to count). I have all the evidence that you could ask for but I presume it equates to nothing?

Anyway, that aside - I'll go ahead and make one of my parents my sponsor. Does it mean that my dad will need to fill out the form on his own, or not necessarily? I don't want them to get confused and think that my mom was sponsoring both of us (as both of my parents live together with me and share all the money towards rent/bills).

Since I didn't have CSI - should I not include the years which I've spent studying..? Should I simply tell them that I wasn't studying at all?

That thing that you said about "5 years period and me being under 21". I came to the UK when I was 16 so it would be impossible for me to be under 21.

ModestWisdom wrote:This application form is so depressing, I am finding it really hard to actually concentrate and think... Normally I tend to deal with any issues quite "easily", whereas now I am panicking.

I find it really shocking what you said about my years spent studying (they're not going to count). I have all the evidence that you could ask for but I presume it equates to nothing?

Anyway, that aside - I'll go ahead and make one of my parents my sponsor. Does it mean that my dad will need to fill out the form on his own, or not necessarily? I don't want them to get confused and think that my mom was sponsoring both of us (as both of my parents live together with me and share all the money towards rent/bills).

Since I didn't have CSI - should I not include the years which I've spent studying..? Should I simply tell them that I wasn't studying at all?

That thing that you said about "5 years period and me being under 21". I came to the UK when I was 16 so it would be impossible for me to be under 21.

Yep, its a poorly designed and generic 'monster' form.

Don't feel too bad about the CSI, you're not the first and won't be the last to be caught out.
Just make sure you really didn't have a foreign EHIC or a RC issued in or before 2011 - either of those items would save you.

It doesn't matter if one parent sponsors the other.
But if they prefer they can apply separately - it all costs the same either way.
And as you can see you won't save much paper by applying on one form.

You probably still have to declare your studies and fact you didn't have CSI.
It just won't matter - when you are sponsored none of your activities matter;
what you have to do is prove who you are, your relationship to sponsor and the fact that you were in country in the same 5 years as sponsor.

For when you were over 21 you also have to show the financial dependence (bank statements, money transfers etc) , don't overlook that.

noajthan wrote:Yep, its a poorly designed and generic 'monster' form.

Don't feel too bad about the CSI, you're not the first and won't be the last to be caught out.
Just make sure you really didn't have a foreign EHIC or a RC issued in or before 2011 - either of those items would save you.

It doesn't matter if one parent sponsors the other.
But if they prefer they can apply separately - it all costs the same either way.
And as you can see you won't save much paper by applying on one form.

You probably still have to declare your studies and fact you didn't have CSI.
It just won't matter - when you are sponsored none of your activities matter;
what you have to do is prove who you are, your relationship to sponsor and the fact that you were in country in the same 5 years as sponsor.

For when you were over 21 you also have to show the financial dependence (bank statements, money transfers etc) , don't overlook that.

Before anything else can I just say how grateful I am to you noajthan; I truly cannot thank you enough. I am literally panicking about this and I'm unable to see things clearly. Long day ahead at work tomorrow, but hopefully I'll be able to concentrate once I get back home.

I have so many unanswered questions in my head but can I just ask you a few "random ones"?

I'm not entirely sure if I want to use my dad as my sponsor as he's had so many jobs, he has been self-employed for quite a while, although he's the one who earns the most. My mom on the other hand has never really earned much - would it still be fine to use her as my sponsor...? Are they not going to question how was she able to support me with *that* kind of salary?

I know that it probably mentions what kind of proof but you are most likely familiar with this already so I'll ask you - since my father has been self-employed for most of his time here what kind of proof would they require for this? Would bank statements from the bank itself suffice (he would ask for bank to put official stamps on)?

ModestWisdom wrote:Before anything else can I just say how grateful I am to you noajthan; I truly cannot thank you enough. I am literally panicking about this and I'm unable to see things clearly. Long day ahead at work tomorrow, but hopefully I'll be able to concentrate once I get back home.

I have so many unanswered questions in my head but can I just ask you a few "random ones"?

I'm not entirely sure if I want to use my dad as my sponsor as he's had so many jobs, he has been self-employed for quite a while, although he's the one who earns the most. My mom on the other hand has never really earned much - would it still be fine to use her as my sponsor...? Are they not going to question how was she able to support me with *that* kind of salary?

I know that it probably mentions what kind of proof but you are most likely familiar with this already so I'll ask you - since my father has been self-employed for most of his time here what kind of proof would they require for this? Would bank statements from the bank itself suffice (he would ask for bank to put official stamps on)?

No problem, happy to help.

Ofcourse after Brexit this kind of first world problem won't even exist any more

The HO will apply its PET/MET tests to any sponsor's income:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/
This is over and above the cleaner, purer EU law that only states work should be genuine and effective.

Bank statements are not enough to show selfemployed earnings.
Dig into the qualified persons doc I linked above - see the section on selfemployed.

You will need to show things like: HMRC tax registration, any VAT registration, business accounts, evidence of tax filing/NI payment details, sample invoices, contracts, business flyers, advertising (plus bank statements) - the full monty.

The evidence all needs to be good & rock-solid. Don't give HO any 'wriggle room'.

noajthan wrote:No problem, happy to help.

Ofcourse after Brexit this kind of first world problem won't even exist any more

The HO will apply its PET/MET tests to any sponsor's income:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/
This is over and above the cleaner, purer EU law that only states work should be genuine and effective.

Bank statements are not enough to show selfemployed earnings.
Dig into the qualified persons doc I linked above - see the section on selfemployed.

You will need to show things like: HMRC tax registration, any VAT registration, business accounts, evidence of tax filing/NI payment details, sample invoices, contracts, business flyers, advertising (plus bank statements) - the full monty.

The evidence all needs to be good & rock-solid. Don't give HO any 'wriggle room'.

I've had a look at the website above, however - with my current mindset it is impossible to understand anything clearly. I am very sorry about this and I do appreciate your help, but once again - could you please elaborate/briefly summarize what you meant about self-employment (PET/MET tests)? My dad has never claimed any benefits in his life and because he's self-employed his time schedule is an odd one. Sometimes he tends to work 7 days a week for a few months, after which he might not have any work for 1-3 weeks; this is a repetitive pattern. However I am positive that he has always earned above minimum yearly wage. He doesn't have any business accounts, he should have some sample invoices/contracts, I don't think that VAT applies to him. Would they not require all the invoices/contracts, etc?

noajthan - in your opinion what do you think would be the "clearest" path for me?

* Apply as 2 people and use my mom as sponsor (my dad would apply separately).
* Apply as 2 people and use my dad as sponsor (mom would apply separately).
* Apply as 3 people and use my mom/dad as sponsor (?)

ModestWisdom wrote:I've had a look at the website above, however - with my current mindset it is impossible to understand anything clearly. I am very sorry about this and I do appreciate your help, but once again - could you please elaborate/briefly summarize what you meant about self-employment (PET/MET tests)? My dad has never claimed any benefits in his life and because he's self-employed his time schedule is an odd one. Sometimes he tends to work 7 days a week for a few months, after which he might not have any work for 1-3 weeks; this is a repetitive pattern. However I am positive that he has always earned above minimum yearly wage. He doesn't have any business accounts, he should have some sample invoices/contracts, I don't think that VAT applies to him. Would they not require all the invoices/contracts, etc?

noajthan - in your opinion what do you think would be the "clearest" path for me?

* Apply as 2 people and use my mom as sponsor (my dad would apply separately).
* Apply as 2 people and use my dad as sponsor (mom would apply separately).
* Apply as 3 people and use my mom/dad as sponsor (?)

Anyone who is self employed needs good evidence - that means paperwork and documents. A good sample per year.
That is the case for any EU related application.

The HO go above and beyond EU law by applying the MET/PET test to decide if someone is a worker.
Aside from fighting HO in court over use of PET (& noone seems to have done that to date) its a case of coming up the documentation.

Its good to show the sponsor pays tax & NI, apart from that beat the minimum threshold (as per linked article).

Any of those options would work if you have the evidence.

Suggest write down your timelines for each person (at least privately at home);
Collate the evidence (including your evidence of dependency)
- see who has the strongest evidence of exercising treaty rights; they should be the sponsor.

noajthan wrote:Anyone who is self employed needs good evidence - that means paperwork and documents. A good sample per year.
That is the case for any EU related application.

The HO go above and beyond EU law by applying the MET/PET test to decide if someone is a worker.
Aside from fighting HO in court over use of PET (& noone seems to have done that to date) its a case of coming up the documentation.

Its good to show the sponsor pays tax & NI, apart from that beat the minimum threshold (as per linked article).

Any of those options would work if you have the evidence.

Suggest write down your timelines for each person (at least privately at home);
Collate the evidence (including your evidence of dependency)
- see who has the strongest evidence of exercising treaty rights; they should be the sponsor.

Good morning noajthan!

Once again - I can't thank you enough. Is there any way for me to actually give you a small donation for all your help? I really feel like you're doing a job and you're not getting paid for it!

I was really concerned about my dad not having every single piece of evidence for his self-employment, however you've just said "a good sample per year". For example - if my dad worked for 10 different people/companies in one year it's perfectly okay if he doesn't have all the proof/evidence? You're saying that even one sample per year would be enough? When I say one sample - I do mean/realize that this sample would contain tax filing, NI payments, invoices/contracts, etc.

Also if self-employment isn't an issue then I should definitely use my dad as my sponsor since he's been here for a lot longer than me or my mom, he was the first one to arrive in the UK. He has (almost) always earned above minimum wage.

ModestWisdom wrote:Good morning noajthan!

Once again - I can't thank you enough. Is there any way for me to actually give you a small donation for all your help? I really feel like you're doing a job and you're not getting paid for it!

I was really concerned about my dad not having every single piece of evidence for his self-employment, however you've just said "a good sample per year". For example - if my dad worked for 10 different people/companies in one year it's perfectly okay if he doesn't have all the proof/evidence? You're saying that even one sample per year would be enough? When I say one sample - I do mean/realize that this sample would contain tax filing, NI payments, invoices/contracts, etc.

Also if self-employment isn't an issue then I should definitely use my dad as my sponsor since he's been here for a lot longer than me or my mom, he was the first one to arrive in the UK. He has (almost) always earned above minimum wage.

That's not necessary and, as I'm not OISC-accredited would be unethical (if not illegal). But a kind offer.

If you have the evidence selfemployment is just as good as employment.
You don't have to give details of every business transaction but the evidence of economic activity has to be rock-solid.

You have to prove to HO satisfaction that your sponsor's work is genuine and effective rather than supplementary and marginal.
You also have to get over the bar set by the PET/MET test.

Follow the guidance and documents I've linked for you - see what you can pull together.
When its all assembled on the dining room table you will have more of a handle of what you have got and any problem areas.