Immigrationboards.com

Hello,

I have spent quite some time looking through the discussions on this forum. And although there is a lot of helpful information available and I haven't found any answer to my questions.

We are a family of three, all German citizens, and we moved to the UK permanently in June 1999. We are now considering applying for British citizenship.
My husband has been in full time employment with the same employer since we have arrived.
I have been a housewife and part time student.
Our son was 9 years old when we arrived in the UK and he first went to primary school (1999 - 2001), then secondary school (2001 - 2008), then university (2009 - 2013) and is now in full time employment (there is a gap in his employment history, and he took almost a year off after finishing secondary school).
I understand we first have to apply for a document certifying permanent residence and I believe this is done using the EEA (PR) application form. Still not quite sure when you use EEA (QP) which seems a lot less complicated?
Anyway, I am slightly confused about this application.
Should we all apply individually or can I apply together with my husband? Would he then be my sponsor?
Our son was a dependent family member in the first 10 or so years but I suppose he still has to make an individual application?
What about my son's gaps in his study/employment record? He did not have comprehensive sickness insurance when he was a student, did not even know this was required. Will that cause any problems?
Do we have to provide evidence of residency for the whole period​​ from 1999? Or can you choose any five year period of the qualifying period? For example could my son provide evidence of his secondary schooling in the UK although this goes back much further than the previous five years?

I hope I explained our situation well enough and would be grateful for some advice.

Thanks in advance,
Susanne

susapf wrote:Hello,

I have spent quite some time looking through the discussions on this forum. And although there is a lot of helpful information available and I haven't found any answer to my questions.

We are a family of three, all German citizens, and we moved to the UK permanently in June 1999. We are now considering applying for British citizenship.
My husband has been in full time employment with the same employer since we have arrived.
I have been a housewife and part time student.
Our son was 9 years old when we arrived in the UK and he first went to primary school (1999 - 2001), then secondary school (2001 - 2008), then university (2009 - 2013) and is now in full time employment (there is a gap in his employment history, and he took almost a year off after finishing secondary school).
I understand we first have to apply for a document certifying permanent residence and I believe this is done using the EEA (PR) application form. Still not quite sure when you use EEA (QP) which seems a lot less complicated?
Anyway, I am slightly confused about this application.
Should we all apply individually or can I apply together with my husband? Would he then be my sponsor?
Our son was a dependent family member in the first 10 or so years but I suppose he still has to make an individual application?
What about my son's gaps in his study/employment record? He did not have comprehensive sickness insurance when he was a student, did not even know this was required. Will that cause any problems?
Do we have to provide evidence of residency for the whole period​​ from 1999? Or can you choose any five year period of the qualifying period? For example could my son provide evidence of his secondary schooling in the UK although this goes back much further than the previous five years?

I hope I explained our situation well enough and would be grateful for some advice.

Thanks in advance,
Susanne

Its a longshot but this may all be unnecessary if you were stamped into UK with ILR as may have happened pre-2000. Suggest check your old passports for any suitably-annotated stamps.
If any of you do have ILR you are settled already and would not need PR.

Otherwise its all about acquiring PR and then applying for DCPRs now that they are one mandatory prerequisite for the privilege of citizenship.
EEA PR is the appropriate form in your case. You may be able to include everyone on the single 'monster' form.

fyi - EEA QP is for a residence certificate for Union citizens; that is an optional document which, if you have now acquired PR (which is likely based on your timelines), you have leapfrogged.

Your son could apply in his own right but, as it is likely he acquired PR years ago (as you all probably have), with father as main applicant, you could use a suitable qualifying period when son was aged under 21.
(Choose period when son was under 21 as there is then no need to show financial dependency of son on sponsor).

If you use one form no need to fill in the Sponsor section (2) as father will be the main applicant.
You and son will be entered as direct family members/dependents.

This will work as only the sponsor has to exercise treaty rights.
The dependents only have to how they were in UK at same time (not even cohabiting; yes, free movement is that free and easy).

If applying in own right, son will need evidence of CSI for student years.
Gap year may be problematic unless son can show he was selfsufficient (again CSI required) or else abroad for an exceptional reason (evidence required).
So if possible, apply with son as a dependent instead.

The form asks for information from 'year dot' but in practice members report supplying information and evidence for an appropriate qualifying period and any subsequent years;
(this is to show that, assuming its been acquired, then, once acquired, PR has not been lost due to later absences from UK).

Don't forget that all the documentary supporting evidence needs to be rock-solid if not unimpeachable.

Next steps
Choose appropriate qualifying period;
Collate all supporting evidence: identities; relationships; residence; absences; treaty rights (for sponsor);
Have a dry run filling in draft copy of the form;
See how it all shapes up.

noajthan wrote: Its a longshot but this may all be unnecessary if you were stamped into UK with ILR as may have happened pre-2000. Suggest check your old passports for any suitably-annotated stamps.
if you have ILR you are settled already and would not need PR (except for son).

Not such a longshot. After I saw you put that before, I told some French friends of mine who arrived about the same time as Susanne and her family did, and they discovered they had been given ILR when they first arrived. A big thank you from them.

Why would Susanne's 9 year old son not have been given ILR too if his parents were? Was that something the UK didn't do for children?

Petaltop wrote:

noajthan wrote: Its a longshot but this may all be unnecessary if you were stamped into UK with ILR as may have happened pre-2000. Suggest check your old passports for any suitably-annotated stamps.
if you have ILR you are settled already and would not need PR (except for son).

Not such a longshot. After I saw you put that before, I told some French friends of mine who arrived about the same time as Susane and her family did, and they discovered they had been given ILR when they first arrived. A big thank you from them.

Why would Susanne's 9 year old son not have been given ILR too along with his parents? Was that something the UK didn't do for children?

@Petaltop, very glad to hear it. Information is power.

And I learned of that possibility from another senior member, secret.simon.
The hive mind of the forum is truly awesome.

You will see I have updated my initial post when I realised son was not born in UK; so, if parents got a stamp he may well have done so too.

noajthan wrote: @Petaltop, very glad to hear it. Information is power.

And I learned of that possibility from another senior member, secret.simon.
The hive mind of the forum is truly awesome.

You will see I have updated my initial post when I realised son was not born in UK; so, if parents got a stamp he may well have done so too.

Ah, right. I was too busy changing my post to amend all the spelling mistakes.

Then a big thanks to Secret_Simon too from them, for pointing that out.

It's good to keep posting the information, even if we did learn about it from others on here.

Thank you for your quick reply.

I have just checked my husband's old passport (couldn't find mine or my son's) and sadly did not see any ILR stamp.

So it seems we have to tackle the EEA (PR) form.
If I understand correctly it would be best if we choose the 5 years from say April 2006 to April 2011 when our son was under 21.
My husband is the main applicant in Section 1 A B, my son and I are family members in Section C.
My husband then needs to complete Sections 5, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19.
I will have to complete Section 11.
And our son will have to complete Section 12.
Have I got this right so far?

Thanks,
Susanne

susapf wrote:Thank you for your quick reply.

I have just checked my husband's old passport (couldn't find mine or my son's) and sadly did not see any ILR stamp.

So it seems we have to tackle the EEA (PR) form.
If I understand correctly it would be best if we choose the 5 years from say April 2006 to April 2011 when our son was under 21.
My husband is the main applicant in Section 1 A B, my son and I are family members in Section C.
My husband then needs to complete Sections 5, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19.
I will have to complete Section 11.
And our son will have to complete Section 12.
Have I got this right so far?

Thanks,
Susanne

Yes, choose appropriate qualifying period. A period with son under 21 simplifies things considerably.

If well in the past (at least over 12 months ago) another advantage is you may immediately shoot for the privilege of citizenship once you have the DCPRs in the bag.

I can't check all the sections on the form right now but it seems you are on right track.
The key to this application is your supporting evidence.

As well as the fairly comprehensive PR guidance, you can get into the head of how the caseworker will assess and weigh up your case here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

See also:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

And we would need to supply evidence that my husband was exercising his treaty rights in the 5 qualifying years (2006 to 2011) and evidence that all three of us have been resident in the UK during those 5 years and all subsequent years until now?

susapf wrote:And we would need to supply evidence that my husband was exercising his treaty rights in the 5 qualifying years (2006 to 2011) and evidence that all three of us have been resident in the UK during those 5 years and all subsequent years until now?

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. (As well as proving your identities and relationship to each other).

I have now made a start on the application form and I am confused as to what evidence to provide.

So I rang the helpline and was told we would need to prove:
* the identity of myself, my husband and our son (valid passports or ID cards)
* Our relationship (marriage certificate, birth certificate)
* Proof that my husband was exercising his treaty rights in the 5 qualifying years and his residence in the UK.

That means no evidence is required that myself and my son are or have been resident in the UK??

Does that sound right?

Thanks,
Susanne

susapf wrote:I have now made a start on the application form and I am confused as to what evidence to provide.

So I rang the helpline and was told we would need to prove:
* the identity of myself, my husband and our son (valid passports or ID cards)
* Our relationship (marriage certificate, birth certificate)
* Proof that my husband was exercising his treaty rights in the 5 qualifying years and his residence in the UK.

That means no evidence is required that myself and my son are or have been resident in the UK??

Does that sound right?

Thanks,
Susanne

Not exactly, you will also need to prove all applicants' residence in UK (and any absences within prescribed limits).

Stop press: there does now appear to have been a step-change in HO policy - DCPR no longer mandatory when applying to naturalise:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1377475

DCPR may still be advisable though, not only in order to reduce potential delays during processing but also to 'test the water' before shooting for citizenship (and putting a considerable application fee at stake).

That is interesting.
But am I right in thinking you would still need to provide the same evidence for your AN application that you would have provided for your EA(PR) application?

susapf wrote:That is interesting.
But am I right in thinking you would still need to provide the same evidence for your AN application that you would have provided for your EA(PR) application?

Yes you are right, you would still have to do that.
And if someone gets it wrong they risk refusal and loss of the naturalisation fee.