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Blueinch wrote: He completed A-levels (2 years),

Blueinch wrote:then got a degree in a university (3 years)

noajthan wrote: How was the gap year spent? what was the reason for the absence

For the gap year type absence, only exceptional reasons such as pregnancy, military service, study leave, (or perhaps some combination of these), may be justified (and, apart from military service, only up to one year).

Petaltop wrote:

noajthan wrote: How was the gap year spent? what was the reason for the absence

For the gap year type absence, only exceptional reasons such as pregnancy, military service, study leave, (or perhaps some combination of these), may be justified (and, apart from military service, only up to one year).

The OP said "gap year working'"between A levels and university. Maybe they worked in the UK for that year?

how was the gap year spent?

Petaltop wrote:

Blueinch wrote: He completed A-levels (2 years),

How old was your son then? Were you a qualified person in the UK during this time?

Blueinch wrote:then got a degree in a university (3 years)

Did he have a CSI during this time? Or an EHIC from his own or another EEA country (not the UK EHIC) during these 3 years?

CR001 wrote:Does he hold a DCPR(document certifying permanent residency?

For British citizenship, absence in the 12 months immediately preceding the date of application should be 90 days or less and in the whole 5 year period should not be more than 450 days.

His UK degree should be sufficient to meet the English language requirement.

noajthan wrote:

Petaltop wrote:

noajthan wrote: How was the gap year spent? what was the reason for the absence

For the gap year type absence, only exceptional reasons such as pregnancy, military service, study leave, (or perhaps some combination of these), may be justified (and, apart from military service, only up to one year).

The OP said "gap year working'"between A levels and university. Maybe they worked in the UK for that year?

True and well worth finding out;

how was the gap year spent?

- rather than second guessing.

After all just bumming around UK would be as bad for OP's son's PR clock as spending a year abroad for no good reason.

Also worth knowing if son is an A8 national in case there is WRS nonsense to worry about during the last gasps of the WRS system (early 2011).

Blueinch wrote:Considering CR001's above comment about DCPR timing (90 days or less), do you still think that my son can return to the UK before August and it won't affect the DCPR qualifying period the started after the university graduation?

noajthan wrote:Qualified person means one or more of: worker; self-employed; student; self-sufficient; jobseeker.

'Gap year working in UK' just means 'working' to me. So if any of this work took place before May 2011, was son registered fully and properly for WRS?
Otherwise his time as a worker can only have started in May 2011 (when WRS ended).

Yes, CSI = comprehensive sickness insurance.

Whether son needed or had WRS is probably academic anyway as the lack of CSI during son's real academic years, at uni, pose a major problem,
His PR clock probably won't have been running if no CSI and no EHIC whilst a student.

Its a longshot but one way to save this period (and make it count towards PR) is if son had had the foresight to apply for a RC issued to him as a student in/before 2011.
Not sure how the timeline works out on that one, you are best-placed to know.
Did son have such a RC?

Otherwise another way to rescue son's time spent in UK is to see if he can be considered to have been sponsored by an EEA parent who was a qualified person at the time; (cohabitation not necessary).
Was this the case

Note If son was over 21 at any time he will have to prove financial dependency on this sponsor.
(That's not necessary for any time being sponsored by a parent whilst under age 21).

If son has blown it with the university years one could argue he may as well stay teaching in China.

But there are one or two provisos.
Be aware that if he stays out of UK for over 6 months (based on anniversary of arrival in UK), and certainly if he stays out over 12 months (for a one-off exceptional reason), his continuiiy of residence will be ended.

That means when he returns to UK his PR clock will have to restart from zero (again).
If this is the case, son obviously won't now have time to acquire PR in the normal way (as Brexit final exit is looming).

And since end of last year possession of the optional and confirmatory DCPR has been made one of the mandatory prerequisites for the privilege of citizenship.

If/when back in UK, son will have to rely on the traditional British sense of fair play and any transitional arrangements that may be put in place for EU citizens; (all yet TBC ofcourse).
But do be aware of recent comments in press (from ministers) talking about a cutoff date for 'late arrival' Union citizens who now come to UK.

Finally, there's a mix of EU and UK domestic requirements that all need to be balanced up and met in full.
In any case, being away from UK over 90 days in the year before applying to naturalise will delay when one could apply for the privilege of citizenship.
PR status (not necessarily having a DCPR) has to be held for 12 months before applying too (unless married to a British spouse).
(Its 6/12 months absence that stops the PR clock).

Blueinch wrote:Yes, I was "qualified" since the beginning.

In terms of my son's WRS I am not entirely sure. During A-levels (Oct 2008-May 2010) he had that job as a part-time (2-3 day per week), and after passing the A-level exams, decided to move full-time (starting from around May 2010-Oct 2011). I don't think he registered anywhere (e.g. WRS) himself. Does it worth checking?

I am trying to find the definition on "RC", but don't think anything suitable comes up. What does the abbreviation mean?

During the studies in the university he was not working, and always lived at home. Does it mean he was "sponsored by EEA parent"?

Yes, he was 21, when he joined the university. What is the way to prove that he was dependent on parents?

Actually, he received the Student Finance England grant. Is it somehow affecting/helping in being "sponsored" and/or "dependent" on parents subjects?

Just to sum up your thoughts about the timing of receiving DCPR/PR (6/12 month absence, etc.). Based on the information I have shared so far here (and will continue to share more), do you think it is worth pushing him to come back to the UK asap? Because, with all the amount of the different details, I am a bit confused at the moment...

Cheers.

Blueinch wrote: My son is EU national, and have lived in the UK for over 7.5 years. He completed A-levels (2 years), then had a gap year working, then got a degree in a university (3 years), and finally worked for 1.5 years.

noajthan wrote: If you can show son has 5 years in UK made up of 2 years A-levels sponsored by a parent who was a qualified person (no dependency required if under 21);
plus 1 year either working in own right (with WRS if before May 2011) or else sponsored by parent; (again no dependency required if under 21 with parent as qp);
plus 2 years at uni and sponsored by parent (qp)
- he may have acquired PR.

Blueinch wrote:In terms of my son's WRS I am not entirely sure. During A-levels (Oct 2008-May 2010) he had that job as a part-time (2-3 day per week), and after passing the A-level exams, decided to move full-time (starting from around May 2010-Oct 2011). I don't think he registered anywhere (e.g. WRS) himself.

noajthan wrote:
RC = residence certificate; an optional confirmatory document for Union citizens. Son will know if he had one as he would have applied for it.

Son will know if he registered for WRS, he was supposed to do so if working before end of April 2011.

Son (if over 21) will have been sponsored by an EEA parent as a direct family member if you provided funds for his essential daily needs (housing and food).
Not even 100% of needs/income, maybe up to 50%. Evidence such as bank statements will be required.
When under 21 all he would have to do is prove his relationship to a parent who was exercising treaty rights as a qualified person (qp).

More on these vital matters in HO guidance here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

If you can show son has 5 years in UK made up of 2 years A-levels sponsored by a parent who was a qualified person (no dependency required if under 21);
plus 1 year either working in own right (with WRS if before May 2011) or else sponsored by parent; (again no dependency required if under 21 with parent as qp);
plus 2 years at uni and sponsored by parent (qp)
- he may have acquired PR.

If so suggest persuade him to come back to UK and apply for DCPR.
See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-pr

If he gets DCPR he could apply for citizenship once he meets the rules on absence for naturalisation (plus all the other requirements for citizenship).
More on naturalisation here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2016.pdf

Worst case son does not have PR. He will have to rely on any transitional arrangement.

In view of all the uncertainty (and all the wild talk by ministers and officials on the future of EEA nationals) suggest son comes back anyway and applies for a RC; this will at least confirm his status as a Union citizen resident in UK.
See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-fm

Blueinch wrote:Before and during the gap year (2010-2011) he was working via a recruitment agency, having all the payslips, etc. Do you know, if employer was able to hire him without WRS? If not, then son got it for sure. He can't remember exactly, but believes that he applied for some kind of Home Office document... Will check it, when arrives back to the UK.

What if "sponsorship" money were provided by parents in cash? In other words, if there are no bank transfers, are there any other ways to prove that he was dependent and sponsored? Would the fact that he had a study grant by Student Finance England affect him in any way in this subject?

Is application for RC affected by the amount of days absent from the UK? What if someone has to frequently travel outside the UK for work?

As usually, thank you for useful participation in this thread.

noajthan wrote: Yes, companies could and did hire workers illegally without WRS. Plenty of reports of such cases in the forum and that's hardly a scientific sample.
But if son thinks he applied for something it could have been either a RC or WRS registration.

You would need evidence of financial dependency to support your son's case. 100% dependency is not necessary which leaves room for other revenue streams.

Someone's RC application is not really dependent on absences as its more of a snapshot in time and about proving someone is a qualified person rather than how long they've been a qualified person.

Blueinch wrote:Ok, to sum up...

Option 1 - Try to get DCPR.

Son was sponsored by me, while he was under 21 years old for 2 years during his A-levels. Then, lets assume he had WRS for 1 year during his gap year (it needs to be double-checked with papers). Finally, 2 years at the uni he was sponsored by me - that's where the question is... He didn't work, and lived in our rented flat, and I was giving him cash (no frequent bank transfers) for his daily necessities... Is my word enough, or what kind of evidence can be shown? I mean, for me it is obvious that he was sponsored by me , because he had no other stream of income, but is it enough for the Immigration Officers?

Option 2 - if Option 1 doesn't work, get RC (Registration Certificate).

Considering the present situation with Brexit, is it known if RC is enough to save his future in the UK? My understanding is that RC is a starting point of a long process: he comes to the UK now, gets RC, stays for 5 years, gets DCPR, stays for 1 year, and finally can apply for the British passport. Right?

Or in a lucky case, he uses 2 years that he was working after the university (2014-2016). So he comes now, gets RC, gets a job, and works for the next 3 years to shoot for DCPR, stays one more year and applies for the British citizenship. Right?

Thank you again.

noajthan wrote: 1) Correct analysis. Rock-solid evidence required. No benefi of doubt can be expected.

2) As per my understanding: correct analysis.

Son will be subject to any transitional arrangements as unlikely to have time to acquire PR in normal way.
All yet to be negotiated by UK and EU and yet to be announced.

3) As per my understanding: correct analysis.

Again, son is likely be subject to any transitional arrangements.
All yet to be negotiated by UK and EU and yet to be announced.

Blueinch wrote:noajthan,

Do you know any government organization or private company, which can analyze all the documents that we have and suggest the best course of direction?

Thank you.

Blueinch wrote:Thank you both!

Appreciate your support and will to help.

Good news - son found his WRS form dated from 2009, so his gap year should be covered by it.

"Option 1" mentioned above looks very interesting now...

We are looking at his period of life between 18 and 23 years old (2008-2013). There are three important periods:

1. Oct 2008 - May 2010 - sponsored by me (parent) during his A-levels (no dependency required, because under 21).

noajthan mentioned: "under 21 all he would have to do is prove his relationship to a parent who was exercising treaty rights as a qualified person (qp)"

Couple of questions:
If we provide our passports showing that he is my son, would it be enough to prove our "relationship"?
For a parent, what does "exercising treaty rights" mean in this context? Working full-time and hold WRS?

2. May 2010 - Oct 2011 - partly covered by WRS, partly exercising treaty rights during his gap year (full-time job);

Before May 2011 (until ot got canceled by the gov.) he had WRS, and after he was exercising his own treaty rights as a full-time worker, until he joined the university.

In addition to WRS form, does he need to find all the payslips to cover the period between May 2011 (end of WRS) and Oct 2011 (start of the university)?

3. Oct 2011 - Oct 2013 - BA degree in the university.

That's where the big question is - we need to prove that he was sponsored by me (a.k.a. parent (qp)). You suggest bank statements...

Son checked his bank statements, and it seems that he was using the money saved during the gap year. Is it any useful?

Thank you.

noajthan wrote: 3) You need to prove son was financially dependent on you as sponsor (not on himself).

Blueinch wrote: 1) evidence of living in the same household