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Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:25 pm
by johnnysmith
Hi,

I'm an A8 national and I'd like to apply for DCPR, with the goal to apply for citizenship after that.

I did my university degree in the UK from September 2006 to Jun 2011, which is almost 5 years. I arrived in the UK a few days prior to beginning my studies. Before that, I visited the UK a few times for no more than 7 days each time (and I've no idea what the dates were). I didn't have CSI during my university studies (and, AFAIK, no CSI alternatives). I had a few jobs with gaps of up to 6 months between them, working up to 20 hours a week and making close-to-minimal wage. Thus, as far as I understand, there is no way I can squeeze anything useful out of this period of time from the DCPR perspective.

I then got a graduate job (in July 2011) in which I stayed so far (i.e. just over 5 years), without interruptions, and which at all times paid a decent salary ("permanent and pensionable position" or whatever). I even stayed at the same address throughout this time, for which I think I have decent evidence. Thus, I'm pretty sure that I qualify with this period swimmingly.

What concerns me is WRS, which I didn't fall under for my current job at all, but which I did fall under whilst working during my university years. I have registered, still have the registration card and the certificates for 4 of those jobs, all originals. However, I also worked for my university 3 times (which I'm pretty sure should be counted separately, since I had different employment contracts for them and there were solid time gaps between them), for which I didn't get a WRS certificate (I asked them (the University) about it when I got the first job, they told me that it was the first time that they heard about it; I wanted to verify it, but never got around to it; never bothered the other 2 times since I didn't do it the first time).

I was reading around the forum and learned well that I "shouldn't Spammy Spammer my application", that "the case worker will figure it out" and that I "won't be penalised for not having WRS earlier". However, I also read that "Not many cases from 2011-2016 being reported yet as they are just working through the system. But plenty of cases reported in forum of late registration for WRS that have been accepted." And I also read that there are alternative application forms that I could possibly use to apply. Finally, as an Eastern-Europen-born soul, I'm kind of hesitant to "report" both myself and my university.

What do you think is the best way to go for me? Use the current official application form, not Spammy Spammer the application, report the employment without permission and attach the WRS docs? Or perhaps I could use a simplified form of some kind that would give evidence solely for the period since I began my last employment and not mention WRS?

Thank you very much in advance.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:34 pm
by noajthan
You will not be penalised for no WRS as, you say, you have a perfectly good qualifying period from 2011+.

Collate evidence.
Fill in form.
No need to hide your carefree student years just focus on your qp. Point it out in a cogent cover letter to spoonfeed caseworker a little.
See how it all stacks up.

And yes, you can use an earlier, simpler form for simplicity's sake;
save a few trees too.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:14 pm
by johnnysmith
Thank you very much, noajthan. I'll do that.

Btw, any news on "the $64,000 question" re the absence of a few WRS registration certificates vs naturalizing to get "the holy grail of BC" and its "good character" requirement?

I read http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 04638.html, but it seems that in all of those cases the registration for WRS was late, but present.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:34 pm
by Obie
A person who was working without WRs would be considered as a person who had worked illegally, and hence Citizenship may be refused.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:42 pm
by johnnysmith
But so is being late with the WRS registration, isn't it? :-) Agree that more so in the case of no registration at all (although counting the duration of illegal work might be a more applicable criterion in this case), but still? :-)

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:43 pm
by Obie
Failure to engage within 28 days of working.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:29 pm
by johnnysmith
Exactly. So if they don't penalise people who have registered months late, as per http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 04638.html, do you think that it's still likely that they will penalise people who haven't registered at all?

If they apply a binary process that noajthan often mentions, where you either meet the requirements or you don't, then in this case if they passed then I should too, right? I'm just wondering what's the likelihood that they wouldn't apply binary logic like this about this matter. And whether there have been any successes with a similar story...

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:59 pm
by noajthan
johnnysmith wrote:Thank you very much, noajthan. I'll do that.

Btw, any news on "the $64,000 question" re the absence of a few WRS registration certificates vs naturalizing to get "the holy grail of BC" and its "good character" requirement?

I read http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 04638.html, but it seems that in all of those cases the registration for WRS was late, but present.
The WRS requirement was for A8 nationals, (that is, all but exempt A8 nationals), to register their first 12 months of employment as a condition of working legally in the United Kingdom (before May 2011).

In my understanding, it now comes down to whether someone on WRS was subject to the Immigration Rules and can be found to have broken Immigration Rules if they were not registered, fully and properly, for WRS.

It's clear people who should have been registered and never were registered have been refused the privilege of citizenship.
And some people who registered late have been granted citizenship.

It's just a bit early to see the results from people who acquired PR from 2011-2016 because of not registering properly before 2011.
This is because their naturalisation applications will only just be coming through in coming months.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 am
by johnnysmith
Makes sense...
noajthan wrote: It's clear people who should have been registered and never were registered have been refused the privilege of citizenship.
So even people who already had PR and who were breaking WRS before their PR QP? (E.g. someone was breaking WRS in 2005, then got WRS in 2006 and has been WRS-compliant ever since, and then in 2013 (after WRS was already abolished) decided to get PR and got it, but then went for citizenship in 2014 and got refused due to not having WRS in 2005?)

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:33 am
by Obie
I shall update the forum of the new guidance on Character as soon as I find time to.

EU national are also subject to the breach of immigration law requirements, when their presence in the UK WAS not in accordance with the regulations.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:36 am
by noajthan
johnnysmith wrote:So even people who already had PR and who were breaking WRS before their PR QP? (E.g. someone was breaking WRS in 2005, then got WRS in 2006 and has been WRS-compliant ever since, and then in 2013 (after WRS was already abolished) got PR, but got refused citizenship in 2014 due to not having WRS in 2005?)
You would need to dig into the forum archives to find specific cases;
for example, before DCPR was mandatory so people got a shock on attempting to naturaliae.

That research left as an exercise for the interested reader.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:46 am
by johnnysmith
Thanks noajthan. Much appreciated. I'll take a look.
Obie wrote: EU national are also subject to the breach of immigration law requirements, when their presence in the UK WAS not in accordance with the regulations.
So I'm 100% doomed when it comes to naturalization? At least until 10 years after WRS, i.e. 2021?

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:49 am
by noajthan
You only had to register in first 12 months of work, not all the time.

If only part time work it probably fails 'genuine and effective' test anyway.
Let alone HO PET test, if they apply it.
(You said it was near minimum wage work and interspersed by gaps of several months).

You're probably overthinking this.
Take it step by step, apply and get DCPR in bag first.
Then worry about naturalisation.

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:00 am
by johnnysmith
noajthan wrote:You only had to register in first 12 months of work, not all the time.
AFAIK I'd need to have worked for 12 months continuously to become exempt, which I definitely haven't.
noajthan wrote: If only part time work it probably fails 'genuine and effective' test anyway.
Let alone HO PET test, if they apply it.
(You said it was near minimum wage work and interspersed by gaps of several months).
What's this "genuine and effective" test and the PET test? If Obie is right, I'm pretty sure my character is ducked. :-)
noajthan wrote: You're probably overthinking this.
Take it step by step, apply and get DCPR in bag first.
Then worry about naturalisation.
I know... I'm a worrier. :-)

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:19 pm
by Obie

Re: Haunted by WRS

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:02 am
by johnnysmith
Thank you, Obie... It blows my mind how complex these regulations can be...