Immigrationboards.com

Hi, I am an Irish citizen exercising my treaty rights in the UK. My wife is a non-EU citizen who has a pending application for a Residence Card and a CoA with approval for work. My wife's passport is currently with the HO.

I would like to travel to Ireland with my wife on the ferry, and this blog post which is often cited here gives me some hope that this may be possible: https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

I am wondering whether the members of this board have more insight into whether the "MRAX" method of entry is possible for us, in the legal sense but also the practical sense - or whether her lack of a passport in her possession will cause problems, either entering Ireland or returning to the UK. The blog post is a little dated, so I'm not sure whether people are still successfully travelling in this way.

We both have valid UK drivers licenses, and would bring our marriage certificate along with evidence of my employment (long enough to satisfy SS requirements) and her CoA plus some proof of address stuff. My reading of the situation is that she does have a legal right to travel with me to Ireland, and that our drivers licenses are accepted as a form of ID in both UK in Ireland. But I am anxious about testing this when she doesn't have her passport - and about what could go wrong if we happen to encounter an immigration officer who doesn't share my perspective on our rights or the validity of her drivers license as a form of ID. It is not knowing this "worst case scenario" that troubles me.

Also, I was reading the "border force operations manual" and there are some parts I don't follow.

5.5.1 Admission of family members who are unable to produce a valid
passport, family permit or residence card
Border Force officers will need to assess whether or not a person qualifies for
admission under the EEA Regulations in the above situations. Ports should take
particular note of the guidance on those who seek admission under the extended
family member provisions as dependents relatives and as family members of an EEA
national with whom they have a “durable relationship” (unmarried partner); the
relevant criteria in Part 8 of the Rules (excluding entry clearance) should be used to
make a decision on whether or not to admit under EEA Regulations. Unlike
immediate family members the EEA Regulations allow for an “extensive examination
of the personal circumstances” of extended family members

This says very little about direct family members.

5.5.2 Seeking admission at port
Applicants at port should be treated as persons seeking admission unless reference
is made to applying for a residence card.

I don't follow how someone who does make reference to already having applied for a residence card should should be treated.


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf

By reference to applying for RC it means the traveller at border requests a RC on the spot. Not that the traveller casually mentions their application is in the post.

It should be a walk in the park as UK and Eire are both in CTA; although having at least a passport in hand would probably smooth the way.

Thanks.

I have just been reading that Ireland is not very good at recognising "Surinder Singh" rights... do you think this could cause a problem?

ScoobyDooo wrote:Thanks.

I have just been reading that Ireland is not very good at recognising "Surinder Singh" rights... do you think this could cause a problem?

I'm not clear what you mean.
Are you talking about delays in Eire or ???

Sorry for not being clear. Maybe I don't understand Surinder SIngh properly...

What I mean is, as I am an Irish citizen, can I use this "MRAX" method of entering Ireland, my home country, with my non-EEA wife?

In all the supporting legislation and documents I have prepared, I am now unsure whether I can count on being able to exercise this right as an Irish citizen in Ireland. I do have evidence that I have been exercising my treaty rights in the UK (employment) - but what I'm reading today suggests that Irish officials do not "respect" these Surinder Singh rights. Maybe I have misunderstood?

Any clarification or links to supporting documents would be hugely appreciated.

As my wife will not be in possession of her passport, I am deeply concerned about what happens if something goes wrong when we are entering Ireland. She won't have any official document that says she has a right to be in the UK (i.e. residence card), so could it be worse than refusing her and sending her back to the UK?

I have all sorts of horrendous scenarios about her being detained and/or deported going round in my head.

ScoobyDooo wrote:Sorry for not being clear. Maybe I don't understand Surinder SIngh properly...

What I mean is, as I am an Irish citizen, can I use this "MRAX" method of entering Ireland, my home country, with my non-EEA wife?

In all the supporting legislation and documents I have prepared, I am now unsure whether I can count on being able to exercise this right as an Irish citizen in Ireland. I do have evidence that I have been exercising my treaty rights in the UK (employment) - but what I'm reading today suggests that Irish officials do not "respect" these Surinder Singh rights. Maybe I have misunderstood?

Any clarification or links to supporting documents would be hugely appreciated.

I see, well I have no knowledge on how the guards look at SS returnees. And not many such reports to be found in the recent forum posts.
Ofcourse MRAX is MRAX, I just don't know about Irish compliance.

ScoobyDooo wrote:As my wife will not be in possession of her passport, I am deeply concerned about what happens if something goes wrong when we are entering Ireland. She won't have any official document that says she has a right to be in the UK (i.e. residence card), so could it be worse than refusing her and sending her back to the UK?

I have all sorts of horrendous scenarios about her being detained and/or deported going round in my head.

Well if you want to try a MRAX manouvere you will firstly both have to prove who you are and what your relationship is.
How can you do that if no passport?

Turning up on the border you will in effect have to carry all your SS proofs and documentation bundle with you.
You can't just say you're a SS-er and expect to waltz in.

Thank you.

We will both be in possession of valid UK drivers license, which as I understand it are accepted as a form of ID in Ireland. This was essentially my original question. To my mind, the drivers licenses and marriage certificate constitutes proof of the relationship "by other means" (in the sections that specify how entrants without a valid passport should be treated).

I do have an SS bundle prepared, with p60s for the last few years and some proof of address documents (4 or 5 going back 2 or 3 years, maybe I should bring more?)

Also, does MRAX definitely apply in our case? I understand that compliance by guards cannot be guaranteed, but I would at least like to know that my understanding of MRAX is correct - I would hate to find out that I misunderstood MRAX.

ScoobyDooo wrote:Also, does MRAX definitely apply in our case? I understand that compliance by guards cannot be guaranteed, but I would at least like to know that my understanding of MRAX is correct - I would hate to find out that I misunderstood MRAX.

if it applies my understanding is its because you have done SS ;
normally a citizen who has not exercised treaty rights can't sponsor an EEA dependent back into home country.