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Hello All

First let me say I have been reading about EEA / Visas for UK for sometime now, still some things boggle me! I am hoping some can help me with some plain English information. My situation:

Me - British Citizen - Self Employed IT contractor in UK, earning sufficient to support 2 comfortably, have own UK home.

My girlfriend - Ukrainian Citizen (non EEA / EU).

Our intention: We are currently not married, but engaged to be marrried. We wish to move together to the UK, we will either work in UK or elsewhere in Europe (yet undecided), mainly due to my contracts depending upon where they are.

1) As far as I am aware in order for us to both go together to the UK, we should apply for a EEA Family Permit, this can be done at the UK Embassy in Kiev.
1a) Married - just need to show the marriage cert - presumably translated to English.
1b) Unmarried - if we apply as unmarried we must demonstrate we are in a long term OR durable relationship - long term meaning 2 years or more. My question is regarding proving a durable relationship when the relationship is not long term i.e. < 6 months. Is it possible to show this? how?

2) If I was to accept some work, just for example in Munich, Germany. Can both I and my partner travel to and work in Germany?
2a) can we go directly from Kiev to Munich, without first obtaining a residence card in the UK?

Thank you for your help

Dale

daleuk wrote:Hello All

First let me say I have been reading about EEA / Visas for UK for sometime now, still some things boggle me! I am hoping some can help me with some plain English information. My situation:

Me - British Citizen - Self Employed IT contractor in UK, earning sufficient to support 2 comfortably, have own UK home.

My girlfriend - Ukrainian Citizen (non EEA / EU).

Our intention: We are currently not married, but engaged to be marrried. We wish to move together to the UK, we will either work in UK or elsewhere in Europe (yet undecided), mainly due to my contracts depending upon where they are.

1) As far as I am aware in order for us to both go together to the UK, we should apply for a EEA Family Permit, this can be done at the UK Embassy in Kiev.
1a) Married - just need to show the marriage cert - presumably translated to English.
1b) Unmarried - if we apply as unmarried we must demonstrate we are in a long term OR durable relationship - long term meaning 2 years or more. My question is regarding proving a durable relationship when the relationship is not long term i.e. < 6 months. Is it possible to show this? how?

2) If I was to accept some work, just for example in Munich, Germany. Can both I and my partner travel to and work in Germany?
2a) can we go directly from Kiev to Munich, without first obtaining a residence card in the UK?

Thank you for your help

Dale

As a British citizen you are unable to apply for an EEA Family permit for your fiancee to settle in the UK. This would only be possible if you are resident in another EU state.

A minimum of 2 years co-habitation in a durable relationship 'akin to marriage' is required to qualify as unmarried partners. 6 months is way too short.

If UK based, you use UK rules, not EEA rules, as for immigration purposes you are not an EEA citizen. 6 months not enough for unmarried visa.

For EEA you need to cut ties with UK, and be married, 6 months is not enough for unmarried partnership, and some EEA states don't even recognise unmarried partners, since local laws do not allow it for local citizens, Germany being one of them as I know through direct experience.

Basically you'll struggle with this unless married due to not having the full 2 years, and the fact unmarried partners are extended family members not family members and the rules are tougher.

Thank you for your reply.

So we cannot apply for an EEA Family Permit? even if we are married?

If not, what is the option of having my wife come to the UK with me?

Spouse settlement visa

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

daleuk wrote:Thank you for your reply.

So we cannot apply for an EEA Family Permit? even if we are married?

If not, what is the option of having my wife come to the UK with me?

Normal UK immigration rules, VAF4A, spouse visa, look on UKVI website - it's all there. Basically you need to have earned £1550 pm for the last 6 months, and it operating via Limited which it sounds like your are, to have your CT600 to hand and CT paid, which generally means being in business for longer than 1 years and nine months...

EEA FM is for those who have lived and worked in another EEA state for an extended period and in the UK's eye's, totally shifted and integrated into that State for that period.

You should be aware that UK is slamming the door on this route, it's abused by many without the wherewithal to pay the UKVI fees and with Brexit looming, one could possibly end up in limbo at the end of it.

I had read about the "family of a settled person" but the route appeared to be extremely restrictive and in my opinion quite punishing of a UK citizen, the number of steps, 2 x English tests (her English is proficient), TB test and all payments involved. We ruled it out as a option, to spend upwards of £6-8k on paperwork which could be rejected.

Wanderer wrote: For EEA you need to cut ties with UK, and be married, 6 months is not enough for unmarried partnership, and some EEA states don't even recognise unmarried partners, since local laws do not allow it for local citizens, Germany being one of them as I know through direct experience.

So what other options do we have?

1) you mention for EEA you need to cut ties with the UK. Is this basically what is known as the "surinder singh" route? to my knowledge involved moving to an EEA state together, such as Germany, reside and work for some period of time, then move to UK?

2) Where else could we go together? (apologies I posted in another forum previously)

Dale - British Citizen - self employed IT contractor - Software Test Management - have £150k cash savings and additional regular income from 2 x UK rental property.
Katya - Ukrainian Citizen - (non EEA / EU).

Thank you very much for all your help and suggestions.

That is a choice that you ought to consider, the alternative will be cutting ties to the UK and your business for a specified period of time with no guarantee, giving the brexit situation.

There tends to be no guarantees with anything these days!

So for the SS route, is there any specified guidance on the steps to take?

My basic understanding:

A) WE must BOTH move and live together in another EEA state for a minimum period of 3 months
B) Must prove we moved our ‘Centre of life’ to this EEA state, we can do this by showing some Rental agreement for property, job contract, property purchase etc.
C) Then we apply for EEA Family Permit in the UK Embassy in this other EEA state.
D) Then we can return to the UK.

Questions:

1) As an EU citizen I know I can go live / work with no issues. Can my non-EEA spouse accompany me to this other EEA state? for example Germany, or is there some process to follow in order to do this.
2) For applying for EEA Family Permit under European Law, what exactly must we show to apply, i.e. must we have jobs? or simply reside?

Is there anything else im not thinking about?

I found this step by step for SS route:

1) go abroad (Ireland or any other EU country); we can fly together and need not to apply for any visas, my spouse can travel with me OR she can 'join the partner', i.e. we can fly separately.
2) apply for a registration certificate in the EU member state (which will prove that you are exercising treaty rights);
3) at the same time your wife applies for an EEA Family Permit/ Schengen visa which should be issued free of charge to your wife under Directive 2004/38EC or an equivalent provision of the Member State you are moving to;
4) once your wife joins you in that other country, you make an application to the UK embassy for an EEA Family Permit (you probably wouldn't even need that, you may travel alongside with marriage certificate);
5) once in the UK, fill out application form EEA2 for FREE and you will use Regulation 9 of the above link I gave you to use the EU route;
6) your wife will get a Residence Card valid for 5 years;
7) after 5 years of continuous residence in the UK (not when the card is issued) she could apply for FREE for a permanent residence card.

I am unclear on:

A) What type of visa must my non eea spouse apply for? I have read she doesn't even need to do so at all and would be admitted. But would she be able to work in the EEA state we choose to reside?

B) Must we both work in the EEA state in order to satisfy the requirements for EU Law EEA family permit? as I understand I must 'exercise my treaty right' in this EEA state. Can I declare self-sufficiency?

daleuk wrote:I found this step by step for SS route:

1) go abroad (Ireland or any other EU country); we can fly together and need not to apply for any visas, my spouse can travel with me OR she can 'join the partner', i.e. we can fly separately.
2) apply for a registration certificate in the EU member state (which will prove that you are exercising treaty rights);
3) at the same time your wife applies for an EEA Family Permit/ Schengen visa which should be issued free of charge to your wife under Directive 2004/38EC or an equivalent provision of the Member State you are moving to;
4) once your wife joins you in that other country, you make an application to the UK embassy for an EEA Family Permit (you probably wouldn't even need that, you may travel alongside with marriage certificate);
5) once in the UK, fill out application form EEA2 for FREE and you will use Regulation 9 of the above link I gave you to use the EU route;
6) your wife will get a Residence Card valid for 5 years;
7) after 5 years of continuous residence in the UK (not when the card is issued) she could apply for FREE for a permanent residence card.

I am unclear on:

A) What type of visa must my non eea spouse apply for? I have read she doesn't even need to do so at all and would be admitted. But would she be able to work in the EEA state we choose to reside?

B) Must we both work in the EEA state in order to satisfy the requirements for EU Law EEA family permit? as I understand I must 'exercise my treaty right' in this EEA state. Can I declare self-sufficiency?

That information is a bit outdated, i.e. can't apply using form eea2 and it is not free (anymore), introduced centre of life tests, etc. In effect, it's much harder to use the SS route to the UK

Try looking at some of the following links:
- https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinde ... ion-route/
- http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 38469.html
- http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 52660.html
- http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 19308.html

I recommend that you read through the recent guidance for Case Workers on assessing a Surinder Singh application. In particular Stages 3 & 4

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ns-_v1.pdf

SS as a long term path is dead in the water, there will be no route to PR via it cum Brexit, plus UKVI is doing it's best to block it.

As a long term plan EEA route sans SS is viable, subject to any tit-for-tat shenanigens on Brexit when the UK starts playing the big I am.

Despite me being a staunch Europhile, I've worked in Ireland, Germany, Switzerland and recently Denmark, (and Russia for a bit) UK is best, despite big issues, there's no place like it.

As an IT contractor too like yourself, you'll be far better off, Denmark, Germany and to a lesser extent Switzerland will tax you to high heaven both personally and commercially, and the German Finanzamt is just about the biggest tax bastard in the whole EU.

Casa wrote:I recommend that you read through the recent guidance for Case Workers on assessing a Surinder Singh application. In particular Stages 3 & 4

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ns-_v1.pdf

Thank you for this, it at least makes the steps clear and easy to follow.

But please can you help me understand this, its really boggling my mind and it is so important to us.

Let me ask one related query at a time, first, what type of visa do we need to get for her to leave Ukraine and enter a EEA member state? What type of visa would this be? would it allow work?

My understanding is she does not need one, but it is better to do so if possible.

You won't be applying for a visa. Your wife will have to apply for a EEA Family Permit before she travels to the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

Casa wrote:You won't be applying for a visa. Your wife will have to apply for a EEA Family Permit before she travels to the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

Think OP means the EU member state, Ireland.

CR001 wrote:

Casa wrote:You won't be applying for a visa. Your wife will have to apply for a EEA Family Permit before she travels to the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

Think OP means the EU member state, Ireland.

You may well be right Char. I assumed the question referred to travelling to the UK.

Casa wrote:You won't be applying for a visa. Your wife will have to apply for a EEA Family Permit before she travels to the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

I thought we could not apply for a EEA Family Permit to enter my home country.

I was referring to travelling to another host EEA state, Ireland, Germany, Denmark etc.

Your wife will have to apply for a Family Permit to enter the UK if she follows the Surinder Singh route.

If you decide to reside in a Schengen state then she will need a Schengen visa to enter.

For Ireland she will have to apply for a short-stay C visa.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... s+citizens

Hi Casa

Oh dear, this all makes me feel so so dumb! Ideally we would go directly to the UK, but to do this we would need to apply follow the UKIV 'family of a settled person' application process, this we do not want to follow if at all possible.

Ok so the only other option is the SS route - essence of this is move together to another Schengen state, 3 months +, it becomes the centre of our life etc etc. Then in this EEA state, apply for Family Permit to UK Embassy.

But I thought in order to follow the above SS route, we would first need to go to a Schengen state and in order to do this my non-eea spouse would need a Schengen visa? i.e. Ukraine -> Schengen

daleuk wrote:Hi Casa

Oh dear, this all makes me feel so so dumb! Ideally we would go directly to the UK, but to do this we would need to apply follow the UKIV 'family of a settled person' application process, this we do not want to follow if at all possible.

Ok so the only other option is the SS route - essence of this is move together to another Schengen state, 3 months +, it becomes the centre of our life etc etc. Then in this EEA state, apply for Family Permit to UK Embassy.

But I thought in order to follow the above SS route, we would first need to go to a Schengen state and in order to do this my non-eea spouse would need a Schengen visa? i.e. Ukraine -> Schengen

More like 9-12 months, UKVI says 3 months is not enough, and consider flat leases in Germany etc are six month minimum, plus something like 3 months up from (lettor pays agency charges).

So path would be;

1. You move to EU state after cutting UK ties.

2. She applies for Schengen visa to EU state to join you (each State has it's own name for it).

3. You both integrate you centre of life into the new State, most EU states you have to register with the local city with your residence, obtain tax number, helots insurance etc, in Denmark where I was this is called a CPR card and NemID, remember in most EU states you need a formal ID card unlike UK.

4. Move back to UK after 9-12 months if Brexit/UKVI hasn't closed the door.

Remember the SS route was designed for this genuinely working in another EU state and trapped between local laws (not a local citizen) and UK laws (not living in UK). No to avoid using UK rules in the first place and UKVI is fully aware of this and considers it 'tempting to circumvent the UK rules' hence the barriers going up and abusers step in.

I included the short-stay C visa link as Ireland isn't in the Schengen zone and you were considering this as an option.

Wanderer is right. 3 months is way too short and won't cut it with the UKVI.

daleuk wrote:Dale - British Citizen - self employed IT contractor - Software Test Management - have £150k cash savings and additional regular income from 2 x UK rental property.

You meet the requirements for the VAF4/FLR(M) route under the UK Immigration Route. Why are you looking at taking the riskier (in terms of certainty regarding Brexit) SS route? It is a case of balancing the urge to save a few thousand pounds versus the uncertainty of Brexit.

secret.simon wrote:

daleuk wrote:Dale - British Citizen - self employed IT contractor - Software Test Management - have £150k cash savings and additional regular income from 2 x UK rental property.

You meet the requirements for the VAF4/FLR(M) route under the UK Immigration Route. Why are you looking at taking the riskier (in terms of certainty regarding Brexit) SS route? It is a case of balancing the urge to save a few thousand pounds versus the uncertainty of Brexit.

I agree. Apart from SS being a very risky route now, I imagine that the cost of relocating to another EU state for 6-12 months would be substantial.

daleuk wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:19 pm

I had read about the "family of a settled person" but the route appeared to be extremely restrictive and in my opinion quite punishing of a UK citizen, the number of steps, 2 x English tests (her English is proficient), TB test and all payments involved. We ruled it out as a option, to spend upwards of £6-8k on paperwork which could be rejected.

That ^

Punishing the UK citizen and their family indeed! It should be free!