EEA Dependant Stamp from Calais
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:43 pm
Hi all,
Just wanting to share our story and get some clarification on some points.
Some background info:
My wife (Albanian national) and I (French national working full-time in hospitality and studying full-time in university) met in May 2017 in the UK while she was here unlawfully since June 2015. We married in late October 2018 in the UK (after having our notice period extended & home office decided we complied with the investigation) and she applied by post for a RC as the family member of a QP shortly after (early November). She received her (long) COA confirming her right to work in mid-December and thanks to my managerial position in my workplace, I was able to offer her employment. We received an email from the Home Office requesting that we attend a marriage interview at their offices in Liverpool, to which we responded confirming our intention to attend. We had been advised by our immigration solicitor that post-interview decisions normally come back very quickly so decided to buy my wife a ticket to accompany me on a trip to Switzerland (flying into Italy) I had planned with my sister for about 3 weeks after the interview date. We decided we didn't mind forfeiting the cost of the ticket if she didn't get a decision or receive her passport back in time. After my wife's part of the interview (she went last), she asked the interviewer about what would happen from there, and explained we had an upcoming holiday planned, to which he told her, off the record, that she should expect to hear back in a week or two. We had also originally requested our documents back multiple times, starting in late November. When we went for the interview, the officer asked for our documents. We said they had not been returned to us and after some checking he informed us they'd been sent back and held by the post office for a few weeks after a failed delivery attempt (we had no idea, nothing was left by Royal Mail to inform us they'd attempted a delivery), and that they were now on the way back to Liverpool. He said they'd be sent back to us as soon as they received them. We received the documents about 10 days later.
Two days ago, we decided to leave the UK for a day-trip to France through the Dover-Calais ferry route. The purpose of this trip was mainly for my wife to receive an EEA dependant stamp upon re-entry, so that she would be allowed to board the plane back from Italy, as she has yet to receive her RC. We were well prepared and carried lots of documentation, including a copy of my wife's RC application, as well as all the supporting documents included with the application, plus up-to-date versions of relevant documents, and additional photos taken after the application. The trip went as follows.
Leaving UK to France:
I asked the French IO if she gets a special stamp (similar to EEA dependant stamp) to distinguish her from regular non-visa nationals as otherwise she'd have a regular Schengen stamp (?) limiting her stay in the area. He said that the rules have changed recently and that because her passport is biometric there was no need to affix a special stamp, she was free to stay in the Schengen area longer than the normal 90 day limit. Can anyone confirm this (with relevant legislature)? I can't find anything about it online. No issues other than that, she got a regular Schengen stamp in her passport and he sent us on our way. UK IO waved us along.
Returning to the UK:
19h15 - We passed the French border first. The IO took our passports, mentioned that my wife needed a visa to enter the UK and asked if we were married. We said yes and he asked if we had a marriage certificate with us. We said yes and he sent us on our way without asking to see it. Once we got to his British counterpart, we handed over our passports and did not volunteer any information, waiting for the IO to ask for supporting documentation. The IO checked through both of our passports, handed them back to us and wished us a nice evening. At this point I asked "shouldn't you stamp her passport?". Obviously a little confused, she asked for the passports back and said "Oh ****, I thought this said Netherlands!" How a supposedly highly-trained IO missed that is beyond me but besides the point. If the stamp was not important to us, we could have obviously just gone ahead but we wanted my wife to have proof of her status in the UK so we insisted. She then handed us a piece of paper saying my wife was being detained and her passport was being held while they gathered more information and we were told to follow her colleague who led us to the border force (or UKVI?) building. When we got there, the colleague we followed asked us where we live, we said in the UK, and she said, almost yelling, "So why did you leave the UK?". I said because there was no reason for us not to, and she said that the Home Office make it very clear that she is not to leave the UK while an application for RC is pending. After a few minutes of waiting inside, another IO (who did not introduce himself, I can only assume he was her superior) asked us for our marriage certificate and upon seeing our bundle of documents, asked to just have everything for them to have a look at. He instructed us to sit down in a secluded area just by the entrance to their "office" I suppose, said "we have 24 hours to make a decision so you'll be here for a while," and went into the office to supposedly assess our application for admission into the UK. From our position we could vaguely hear the IOs in the office, talking about completely unrelated things, having a laugh, using particularly vulgar/offensive language (couldn't tell if they were talking about us or someone else), making us feel like they were simply wasting our time just because they could.
The man who'd asked for our documents earlier came back a few times to ask my wife questions, always in an accusatory tone, cutting her off when she began speaking, not letting her explain things etc. In particular he asked her "Where's your visa if you are living in the UK? Do you have another passport?" to which she replied that she had held an older Albanian passport which she had lost. He asked if she had a visa in it, to which she said no, and he opened the door to the office and shouted "Yep she came in illegally."
Eventually a lady (the IO who had originally led us to the building) called me over to the counter to ask me questions about my wife, our family life, work, etc. She asked if we went on this trip specifically to get the stamp. I reiterated that we decided to take a day-trip and that her obtaining proof of her status in the UK until the Home Office reaches a decision on her EEA2 application is, of course, an added bonus, and that yes, partly motivated us to make the trip. I said that we could not obtain a FP from within the UK, and could not afford to leave the UK for long enough to apply for one (given the long delays reported), so our hands were tied. I also mentioned that we had made plans to travel in the coming days and wanted assurance she'd be allowed to board the plane back to the UK. She was very unhappy with this and said that this is not how you do things. She also said a few other things I believe to be incorrect. Could someone please confirm the Home Office's official stance on the below points, I can't find much info online, especially regarding the EEA dependant stamp.
1) "Even if we give her a stamp to enter the country, it is a single entry stamp and she can't leave the UK until she receives her RC so you can't use it to go on holiday." From my understanding, the stamp is essentially a FP (which allows multiple entry) issued directly at the Port of Entry. This contradicts her statement.
2) "A RC application automatically gets cancelled when you leave the UK." I am almost entirely sure that this is simply incorrect. I asked if she was sure this applies to someone seeking admission under EEA regulations, to which she said "yes, it's the same for everyone. If you leave the UK while a RC application is pending, the application gets cancelled." She was very clear about this. Can anyone confirm/disprove this? We are slightly worried about the status of her application even though we believe this to be incorrect.
3) "Why did you leave the UK? The HO clearly told you not to travel until you get the card. I argued that this was not the case and she began to read out the COA to prove her point, she got flustered when she reached the relevant section, which reads "We generally advise that you should not make any travel plans until we have returned your passport ..... We advise you not to make any non-urgent travel plans until we have decided your application and returned your passport(s) or travel document(s)." I reminded her that the HO had indeed returned our documents to us and that we took that to mean we were free to travel (I have read online that if they doubt something in your application they can refuse to return your documents until they reach a decision, to prevent you from travelling). In any case I argued that if she has the right to reside and work in the UK pending their decision, she surely also has the right to leave and re-enter the country. At this point she moved on to the next point.
4) As previously stated, due to my managerial position in my workplace, I was able to hire my wife. I am NOT her employer, but am her manager. I did this when she received her COA. The IO explicitly stated that my wife had NO right to work, and that despite the COA clearly stating "You are permitted to accept offers of employment in the UK, or to continue in employment in the UK, whilst your application is under consideration and until either you are issued with residence documentation or, if your application is refused, until your appeal rights are exhausted.", this only applies if you'd previously been (legally) employed in the UK. This contradicts everything I have read in guidance material, online forums, and even from other HO employees (who didn't bat an eye when I told them I'd hired her during our marriage interview).
She then asked me to send my wife to speak to her and asked her similar questions and gave her similar information.
21h15: about 15 minutes after the makeshift interview, the IO came out of the office asking one of her colleagues for an EEA stamp. She gave us our passports and said we were free to go. I asked exactly what rights the stamp, which reads "Admitted to the United Kingdom under the immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016", confers to the bearer. She said that she can in fact use this for multiple entry. I said "So this stamp is essentially a Family Permit?" to which she said yes. She also specified that we may be asked more questions next time we re-enter the country and may have to show some supporting documentation. I thanked her and apologised for using up their time and giving them more work to do. She said "yeah don't tell your friends about it. Too many people are doing this and we're going to stop issuing them soon." Obviously due to Brexit there may be some truth to that but for the moment I don't see how they'd be able to deny an EEA national's family member admission, when they can prove their relationship, without breaking EU law.
Overall, the experience was very stressful and extremely unpleasant but obviously worth it as my wife can now prove her legal status in the UK while waiting for her RC. We were made to feel like we were breaking the law the entire time we were there, when, from my understanding, we were entirely within our rights. I know that the UKBA/UKVI have a reputation for being difficult but they seemed overly rude, somewhat incompetent (the first IO we encountered), but mainly extremely unprofessional. In fact, if there is a service through which I can make a formal complaint, I will use it.
Does anyone know if an airline, specifically EasyJet, will accept the stamp as proof of my wife's legal right to enter the UK and let her board the flight back from Italy? Also, can someone please confirm whether this will really have a bearing on her application for a RC. This is mainly what we are worried about at this point.
Just wanting to share our story and get some clarification on some points.
Some background info:
My wife (Albanian national) and I (French national working full-time in hospitality and studying full-time in university) met in May 2017 in the UK while she was here unlawfully since June 2015. We married in late October 2018 in the UK (after having our notice period extended & home office decided we complied with the investigation) and she applied by post for a RC as the family member of a QP shortly after (early November). She received her (long) COA confirming her right to work in mid-December and thanks to my managerial position in my workplace, I was able to offer her employment. We received an email from the Home Office requesting that we attend a marriage interview at their offices in Liverpool, to which we responded confirming our intention to attend. We had been advised by our immigration solicitor that post-interview decisions normally come back very quickly so decided to buy my wife a ticket to accompany me on a trip to Switzerland (flying into Italy) I had planned with my sister for about 3 weeks after the interview date. We decided we didn't mind forfeiting the cost of the ticket if she didn't get a decision or receive her passport back in time. After my wife's part of the interview (she went last), she asked the interviewer about what would happen from there, and explained we had an upcoming holiday planned, to which he told her, off the record, that she should expect to hear back in a week or two. We had also originally requested our documents back multiple times, starting in late November. When we went for the interview, the officer asked for our documents. We said they had not been returned to us and after some checking he informed us they'd been sent back and held by the post office for a few weeks after a failed delivery attempt (we had no idea, nothing was left by Royal Mail to inform us they'd attempted a delivery), and that they were now on the way back to Liverpool. He said they'd be sent back to us as soon as they received them. We received the documents about 10 days later.
Two days ago, we decided to leave the UK for a day-trip to France through the Dover-Calais ferry route. The purpose of this trip was mainly for my wife to receive an EEA dependant stamp upon re-entry, so that she would be allowed to board the plane back from Italy, as she has yet to receive her RC. We were well prepared and carried lots of documentation, including a copy of my wife's RC application, as well as all the supporting documents included with the application, plus up-to-date versions of relevant documents, and additional photos taken after the application. The trip went as follows.
Leaving UK to France:
I asked the French IO if she gets a special stamp (similar to EEA dependant stamp) to distinguish her from regular non-visa nationals as otherwise she'd have a regular Schengen stamp (?) limiting her stay in the area. He said that the rules have changed recently and that because her passport is biometric there was no need to affix a special stamp, she was free to stay in the Schengen area longer than the normal 90 day limit. Can anyone confirm this (with relevant legislature)? I can't find anything about it online. No issues other than that, she got a regular Schengen stamp in her passport and he sent us on our way. UK IO waved us along.
Returning to the UK:
19h15 - We passed the French border first. The IO took our passports, mentioned that my wife needed a visa to enter the UK and asked if we were married. We said yes and he asked if we had a marriage certificate with us. We said yes and he sent us on our way without asking to see it. Once we got to his British counterpart, we handed over our passports and did not volunteer any information, waiting for the IO to ask for supporting documentation. The IO checked through both of our passports, handed them back to us and wished us a nice evening. At this point I asked "shouldn't you stamp her passport?". Obviously a little confused, she asked for the passports back and said "Oh ****, I thought this said Netherlands!" How a supposedly highly-trained IO missed that is beyond me but besides the point. If the stamp was not important to us, we could have obviously just gone ahead but we wanted my wife to have proof of her status in the UK so we insisted. She then handed us a piece of paper saying my wife was being detained and her passport was being held while they gathered more information and we were told to follow her colleague who led us to the border force (or UKVI?) building. When we got there, the colleague we followed asked us where we live, we said in the UK, and she said, almost yelling, "So why did you leave the UK?". I said because there was no reason for us not to, and she said that the Home Office make it very clear that she is not to leave the UK while an application for RC is pending. After a few minutes of waiting inside, another IO (who did not introduce himself, I can only assume he was her superior) asked us for our marriage certificate and upon seeing our bundle of documents, asked to just have everything for them to have a look at. He instructed us to sit down in a secluded area just by the entrance to their "office" I suppose, said "we have 24 hours to make a decision so you'll be here for a while," and went into the office to supposedly assess our application for admission into the UK. From our position we could vaguely hear the IOs in the office, talking about completely unrelated things, having a laugh, using particularly vulgar/offensive language (couldn't tell if they were talking about us or someone else), making us feel like they were simply wasting our time just because they could.
The man who'd asked for our documents earlier came back a few times to ask my wife questions, always in an accusatory tone, cutting her off when she began speaking, not letting her explain things etc. In particular he asked her "Where's your visa if you are living in the UK? Do you have another passport?" to which she replied that she had held an older Albanian passport which she had lost. He asked if she had a visa in it, to which she said no, and he opened the door to the office and shouted "Yep she came in illegally."
Eventually a lady (the IO who had originally led us to the building) called me over to the counter to ask me questions about my wife, our family life, work, etc. She asked if we went on this trip specifically to get the stamp. I reiterated that we decided to take a day-trip and that her obtaining proof of her status in the UK until the Home Office reaches a decision on her EEA2 application is, of course, an added bonus, and that yes, partly motivated us to make the trip. I said that we could not obtain a FP from within the UK, and could not afford to leave the UK for long enough to apply for one (given the long delays reported), so our hands were tied. I also mentioned that we had made plans to travel in the coming days and wanted assurance she'd be allowed to board the plane back to the UK. She was very unhappy with this and said that this is not how you do things. She also said a few other things I believe to be incorrect. Could someone please confirm the Home Office's official stance on the below points, I can't find much info online, especially regarding the EEA dependant stamp.
1) "Even if we give her a stamp to enter the country, it is a single entry stamp and she can't leave the UK until she receives her RC so you can't use it to go on holiday." From my understanding, the stamp is essentially a FP (which allows multiple entry) issued directly at the Port of Entry. This contradicts her statement.
2) "A RC application automatically gets cancelled when you leave the UK." I am almost entirely sure that this is simply incorrect. I asked if she was sure this applies to someone seeking admission under EEA regulations, to which she said "yes, it's the same for everyone. If you leave the UK while a RC application is pending, the application gets cancelled." She was very clear about this. Can anyone confirm/disprove this? We are slightly worried about the status of her application even though we believe this to be incorrect.
3) "Why did you leave the UK? The HO clearly told you not to travel until you get the card. I argued that this was not the case and she began to read out the COA to prove her point, she got flustered when she reached the relevant section, which reads "We generally advise that you should not make any travel plans until we have returned your passport ..... We advise you not to make any non-urgent travel plans until we have decided your application and returned your passport(s) or travel document(s)." I reminded her that the HO had indeed returned our documents to us and that we took that to mean we were free to travel (I have read online that if they doubt something in your application they can refuse to return your documents until they reach a decision, to prevent you from travelling). In any case I argued that if she has the right to reside and work in the UK pending their decision, she surely also has the right to leave and re-enter the country. At this point she moved on to the next point.
4) As previously stated, due to my managerial position in my workplace, I was able to hire my wife. I am NOT her employer, but am her manager. I did this when she received her COA. The IO explicitly stated that my wife had NO right to work, and that despite the COA clearly stating "You are permitted to accept offers of employment in the UK, or to continue in employment in the UK, whilst your application is under consideration and until either you are issued with residence documentation or, if your application is refused, until your appeal rights are exhausted.", this only applies if you'd previously been (legally) employed in the UK. This contradicts everything I have read in guidance material, online forums, and even from other HO employees (who didn't bat an eye when I told them I'd hired her during our marriage interview).
She then asked me to send my wife to speak to her and asked her similar questions and gave her similar information.
21h15: about 15 minutes after the makeshift interview, the IO came out of the office asking one of her colleagues for an EEA stamp. She gave us our passports and said we were free to go. I asked exactly what rights the stamp, which reads "Admitted to the United Kingdom under the immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016", confers to the bearer. She said that she can in fact use this for multiple entry. I said "So this stamp is essentially a Family Permit?" to which she said yes. She also specified that we may be asked more questions next time we re-enter the country and may have to show some supporting documentation. I thanked her and apologised for using up their time and giving them more work to do. She said "yeah don't tell your friends about it. Too many people are doing this and we're going to stop issuing them soon." Obviously due to Brexit there may be some truth to that but for the moment I don't see how they'd be able to deny an EEA national's family member admission, when they can prove their relationship, without breaking EU law.
Overall, the experience was very stressful and extremely unpleasant but obviously worth it as my wife can now prove her legal status in the UK while waiting for her RC. We were made to feel like we were breaking the law the entire time we were there, when, from my understanding, we were entirely within our rights. I know that the UKBA/UKVI have a reputation for being difficult but they seemed overly rude, somewhat incompetent (the first IO we encountered), but mainly extremely unprofessional. In fact, if there is a service through which I can make a formal complaint, I will use it.
Does anyone know if an airline, specifically EasyJet, will accept the stamp as proof of my wife's legal right to enter the UK and let her board the flight back from Italy? Also, can someone please confirm whether this will really have a bearing on her application for a RC. This is mainly what we are worried about at this point.