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Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:04 pm
by Amoniman
Hello all,
If anybody could let me know how is possible to get back to UK with out Residence card ( Application in process )?
I live and reside in UK as a direct family member ( Spouse ) of EU citizen since Nov. 2017.
I had to travel urgently back to my home town for some family health situation and now I`m stuck out of UK in past 25 days as no air company will board me with out visa or Residence card. It was futile of me explaining that by UK law Residence card is not mandatory for Direct Family member.
I met my wife in Paris so we can travel together back to UK, and still I was asked for visa or Residence card. Been calling Home office to give me solution to this problem, and to be kind to them, they had no clue what was I talking about - Free Movement, Direct Family member, Article 4, Article 5. They even told me to apply for tourist visa
Apparently internal air company procedures are above EU Free Movement law.
I even got written document from my MPs office, from UKs Member of European Parliament explaining that I have right of entry by Free Movement Directive, and still that wasn`t enough to air companies to allow me to board. They were still asking for visa or residence card.
Allow me to mention, that I have traveled with my family in October to Tenerife and back to UK with no visa ( Family permit has expired in April ) and no Residence Card and I boarded plane with no problem. Upon arrival we demonstrated to Immigration Officer that I live and reside in UK as Direct Family member, he took some checks, and after 2 minutes put a stamp in my passport and granted me entry.
Do you have any suggestions ? Was my best chance too get in touch with UK border on Eurostar line from Paris to London? Are there any other places where I can have direct contact with UK border force ? Because I know I would be granted entry if I had a chance to present evidence to UK Border Force, just like I did in October.
Kind Regards
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:31 pm
by secret.simon
Amoniman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:04 pm
Was my best chance too get in touch with UK border on Eurostar line from Paris to London? Are there any other places where I can have direct contact with UK border force ?
Juxtaposed border controls wrote:These ‘juxtaposed controls’ are in place at Calais and Dunkirk ports, at the Eurotunnel terminal at Coquelles and in Paris Gare du Nord, Lille, Calais-Frethun and Brussels Midi stations for Eurostar passengers.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:49 pm
by Amoniman
Tanks for your reply.
I wasted 8 days in Paris arguing with Air France and explaining them what Free Movement Directive is.
Should have just gone to Gare Du Nord or even Calais but I have read somewhere that it is same procedure as in Airports and that UK officers are just on the other side
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:11 pm
by NatCam
Airlines pay fines if something goes wrong. They are not border officers.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:50 pm
by Amoniman
NatCam wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:11 pm
Airlines pay fines if something goes wrong. They are not border officers.
I know that they gonna pay, I`m not even thinking about that.
My problem is that no one at Home Office knows how can I enter UK with out Residence Card, witch they said is not mandatory for direct family members. What would be procedure if I lost my Residence Card abroad, how would I enter UK then ?
Air companies are asking for visa or Residence card, or to get "some" paper from UK embassy or Home Office saying that I`m resident and have right of entry. When I asked them to show me exactly what paper so I know what to ask from Home Office, they don`t know. They just know that they need "some" paper.
When I called Home Office and told hem that air companies are asking for "some" paper saying that I`m resident in UK so I could board plane, they didn`t know what was I talking about.
So in the past 4 week I`ve been looking for "Holy Grail paper" from Home Office witch apparently no one has ever seen or heard off.
I have been separated from my wife and son almost a month, been financially depleted, lost 2 good job offers, and on top of all I have been called to appear in court for not paying Council Tax on time. Maybe I should ask to be extradited to UK so I can appear in court, seems that is gonna be fastest way for me to get back
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:08 pm
by Amoniman
NatCam wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:11 pm
Airlines pay fines if something goes wrong. They are not border officers.
I meant I know that they pay penalties if they board someone with out proper documentation, but I have presented enough evidence that I`m legal resident in UK just without Residence card, as it is not mandatory as UK gov said. So for them to insist that I show Residence card as only proof that I`m resident in UK is not possible and against the law.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:16 am
by NatCam
It wouhd have worked if your spouse had been with you.
All the best.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:44 am
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:50 pm
What would be procedure if I lost my Residence Card abroad, how would I enter UK then ?
Applying for a Family Permit to gain re-entry to the UK.
This is the recommended procedure by the HO, for example, whenever an (Extended) Family member requests their documents back, e.g. passport, to travel abroad, while their application for RC is in progress. In your circumstances, having been denied boarding, and given you have all the evidence with you, this is the reasonable step to take.
It will be free, it will be fast.
You need to supply your and your wife passport or national identity card. In special cases they accept a certified copy if this is not possible.
All info to apply here:
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit
See old post when I realized this was the solution to my problem (I was also locked out of the UK), and its successful conclusion, here:
eea-route-applications/travelling-abroa ... l#p1303118
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:36 am
by Frontier Mole
The fastest and easiest method of return is to bring your wife back to Paris, with evidence of marriage and return together.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:09 am
by secret.simon
And if you are in Paris, take the Eurostar. That way, you can deal directly with the Border Force, rather than airline staff.
Airlines need either a Family Permit or a Residence Card or some form of documentation. If you lose your Residence Card, the appropriate procedure is to apply for a Family Permit and then reapply for a Residence Card when back in the UK. Pointing somebody whose job is to check standard documentation to understand intricate EU law is unlikely to work.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
by Amoniman
Frontier Mole wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:36 am
The fastest and easiest method of return is to bring your wife back to Paris, with evidence of marriage and return together.
I was with my wife in Paris, and with tones of documentation ( marriage certificate, my Certificate of Application, email from Home Office that we had interview with them next day, Council Tax bills, Gas bills with bout names on it, my P45,... ) and still that wasn`t enough. They still wanted "some" paper from Home Office or UK embassy.
No one from Home Office could tell me if I could reapply for Family permit because I`m already UK resident and currently in process of application for Residence card ( all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well). I asked if I apply for FP would it be granted in less then 15 working days since I`m already resident and in process of Application, they couldn`t tell.
Like I said, they even told me to apply for tourist visa.
I already lost 4 weeks playing deaf phones with Home Office as no one can give me a straight answer.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:08 pm
by Amoniman
kamoe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:44 am
Amoniman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:50 pm
What would be procedure if I lost my Residence Card abroad, how would I enter UK then ?
Applying for a Family Permit to gain re-entry to the UK.
This is the recommended procedure by the HO, for example, whenever an (Extended) Family member requests their documents back, e.g. passport, to travel abroad, while their application for RC is in progress. In your circumstances, having been denied boarding, and given you have all the evidence with you, this is the reasonable step to take.
It will be free, it will be fast.
You need to supply your and your wife passport or national identity card. In special cases they accept a certified copy if this is not possible.
All info to apply here:
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit
See old post when I realized this was the solution to my problem (I was also locked out of the UK), and its successful conclusion, here:
eea-route-applications/travelling-abroa ... l#p1303118
I see some similarities but also crucial differences between our two cases.
If I understood correctly, you entered UK with working Tier 2 visa. Was this the first time that you applied for Family Permit when you were back in Columbia ? And did you say you receive it 3 days after you submitted your interview ?
I got my Family Permit back in Oct. 2017. witch I used few weeks later to join my wife for the first time in UK. Like I said in other post, no one from Home Office could tell me if I would be able to apply for Family Permit again as I`m currently in process of Application for Residence Card.
If I have gotten a straight answer - yes, you can apply again - I would already be back with my family in UK, not running across half of Europe spending 1000€ trying to find some air company to board me
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:52 pm
by Amoniman
secret.simon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:09 am
And if you are in Paris, take the Eurostar. That way, you can deal directly with the Border Force, rather than airline staff.
Airlines need either a Family Permit or a Residence Card or some form of documentation. If you lose your Residence Card, the appropriate procedure is to apply for a Family Permit and then reapply for a Residence Card when back in the UK. Pointing somebody whose job is to check standard documentation to understand intricate EU law is unlikely to work.
Unfortunately I`m not in Paris anymore, back to my home town.
And I just came back from airport where I asked person in charge for travel documentation to check with London ( only flight to UK from my country ) and answer I got from London personal was to apply for returning resident visa
WTF
So basically if I don`t grab the phone and ask question for myself, this is only what I`ll get - answers in no relevance to my situation. And that`s going on for 4 weeks now, playing deaf phones and wasting time.
Like I said, if anyone from Home Office told me straight forward - only option if you want to fly back to UK is to re apply for family Permit and that`s it. There is no other option, no matter of your legal status in UK, despite Article 5(1)(4) - that is that.
Or if they told me to try by train and seek for UK immigration Officers on the place to grant me entry, that would be helpful as well.
Instead all I got were these half-mule answers like apply for tourist visa or returning residence visa
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:44 pm
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:08 pm
I see some similarities but also crucial differences between our two cases.
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Our cases don't need to be exact to be useful. There are differences, but they are not crucial.
Bottom line is, I was locked out of the country, with the right to live in the country, and no document to prove this to airlines.
If I understood correctly, you entered UK with working Tier 2 visa.
No. And it actually does not matter which visa I had when I first entered or which one I had when I left before found myself locked out.
What matters is that at the point I wanted to travel back, I had a pending RC application process at the HO and I had no other valid visa.
Just for the sake of info, I had a stream of different visas, Tier 4, Tier 1, Tier 2. This last one was due to expire by the time I wanted to travel and I could not use it.
Was this the first time that you applied for Family Permit when you were back in Columbia ?
I met my partner in the UK while on a Tier 1 visa, so I never really had to apply for a Family Permit (which is issued to allow family members to enter the UK in the first place). I never thought it would be relevant to me before I got locked out.
So to answer your question, yes, this was the first time I had to apply for a Family Permit. But
it does not matter if it is your first, second, or third time. The concept of Family Permit is there PRECISELY to let Family Members get into the UK (be it the first, second third, or fourth time, whatever the reason they can't demonstrate their family status otherwise).
And did you say you receive it 3 days after you submitted your interview ?
Yeap. EU and UK family members get priority over all other applications. At least in ColOmbia (With a very round O, not Columbia, please stop spelling it like that, it's annoying).
I got my Family Permit back in Oct. 2017. witch I used few weeks later to join my wife for the first time in UK.
Not an issue.
Like I said in other post, no one from Home Office could tell me if I would be able to apply for Family Permit again as I`m currently in process of Application for Residence Card.
Bunch of -pardon my French- morons.
As I said, The HO ITSELF RECOMMENDS applying for a family permit whenever an EU family members find themselves in this exact same situation, of having to travel abroad while their RC is pending. If you request your documents back (usually done because the applicant has to travel abroad), you will receive a letter saying exactly that: to please apply for a family permit to be able to get back into the UK.
If I have gotten a straight answer - yes, you can apply again - I would already be back with my family in UK, not running across half of Europe spending 1000€ trying to find some air company to board me
The application is free, and it has been proven NOT NO INTERFERE with the pending RC application. You have nothing to lose.
However, at this point, it might as well be faster to just wait for your RC to be issued (when did you apply? Last timelines indicate just over a month's waiting time on average) and having your wife send it through DHL, FedEx, etc. to your home country, or having her bring it to you in person.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:51 pm
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
No one from Home Office could tell me if I could reapply for Family permit because I`m already UK resident and currently in process of application for Residence card ( all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well). I asked if I apply for FP would it be granted in less then 15 working days since I`m already resident and in process of Application, they couldn`t tell.
Like I said, they even told me to apply for tourist visa.
I already lost 4 weeks playing deaf phones with Home Office as no one can give me a straight answer.
I'm so sorry, but, bunch of [intellectually challenged synonym], they should know this!!!
The STRAIGHT OBVIOUS answer is a FAMILY PERMIT!!! How do they not know this??? Being already a resident has absolutely no impact on your eligibility to apply for a FP.
I'm talking from personal experience, had been a resident for over 6 years, with pending RC, and got granted FP with no problem, following own HO advise.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:01 am
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well
I don't get it. How were you able to go to your home country, then?
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:34 am
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:50 pm
Air companies are asking for visa or Residence card, or to get "some" paper from UK embassy or Home Office saying that I`m resident and have right of entry.
That is EXACTLY what a Family Permit is.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:02 am
by Amoniman
kamoe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:01 am
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well
I don't get it. How were you able to go to your home country, then?
I asked my passport back, because I knew I might need i for family emergency.
But all other documents along with my wife`s passport are still at Home Office
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:02 am
by Amoniman
kamoe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:01 am
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well
I don't get it. How were you able to go to your home country, then?
I asked my passport back, because I knew I might need i for family emergency.
But all other documents along with my wife`s passport are still at Home Office
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:29 am
by Amoniman
kamoe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:44 pm
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:08 pm
I see some similarities but also crucial differences between our two cases.
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Our cases don't need to be exact to be useful. There are differences, but they are not crucial.
Bottom line is, I was locked out of the country, with the right to live in the country, and no document to prove this to airlines.
If I understood correctly, you entered UK with working Tier 2 visa.
No. And it actually does not matter which visa I had when I first entered or which one I had when I left before found myself locked out.
What matters is that at the point I wanted to travel back, I had a pending RC application process at the HO and I had no other valid visa.
Just for the sake of info, I had a stream of different visas, Tier 4, Tier 1, Tier 2. This last one was due to expire by the time I wanted to travel and I could not use it.
Was this the first time that you applied for Family Permit when you were back in Columbia ?
I met my partner in the UK while on a Tier 1 visa, so I never really had to apply for a Family Permit (which is issued to allow family members to enter the UK in the first place). I never thought it would be relevant to me before I got locked out.
So to answer your question, yes, this was the first time I had to apply for a Family Permit. But
it does not matter if it is your first, second, or third time. The concept of Family Permit is there PRECISELY to let Family Members get into the UK (be it the first, second third, or fourth time, whatever the reason they can't demonstrate their family status otherwise).
And did you say you receive it 3 days after you submitted your interview ?
Yeap. EU and UK family members get priority over all other applications. At least in ColOmbia (With a very round O, not Columbia, please stop spelling it like that, it's annoying).
I got my Family Permit back in Oct. 2017. witch I used few weeks later to join my wife for the first time in UK.
Not an issue.
Like I said in other post, no one from Home Office could tell me if I would be able to apply for Family Permit again as I`m currently in process of Application for Residence Card.
Bunch of -pardon my French- morons.
As I said, The HO ITSELF RECOMMENDS applying for a family permit whenever an EU family members find themselves in this exact same situation, of having to travel abroad while their RC is pending. If you request your documents back (usually done because the applicant has to travel abroad), you will receive a letter saying exactly that: to please apply for a family permit to be able to get back into the UK.
If I have gotten a straight answer - yes, you can apply again - I would already be back with my family in UK, not running across half of Europe spending 1000€ trying to find some air company to board me
The application is free, and it has been proven NOT NO INTERFERE with the pending RC application. You have nothing to lose.
However, at this point, it might as well be faster to just wait for your RC to be issued (when did you apply? Last timelines indicate just over a month's waiting time on average) and having your wife send it through DHL, FedEx, etc. to your home country, or having her bring it to you in person.
I just spent 60 minutes typing those crucial differences and forum log me out and everything was lost
That`s what you get when you try t be smart
I`ll retype it in the morning.
Long story short - crucial difference: I left UK as Direct family member who is already residing in UK under EU Regultion and you left under UK Immigration law prior of receiving RC as Extended family member.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:35 am
by Amoniman
kamoe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:51 pm
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
No one from Home Office could tell me if I could reapply for Family permit because I`m already UK resident and currently in process of application for Residence card ( all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well). I asked if I apply for FP would it be granted in less then 15 working days since I`m already resident and in process of Application, they couldn`t tell.
Like I said, they even told me to apply for tourist visa.
I already lost 4 weeks playing deaf phones with Home Office as no one can give me a straight answer.
I'm so sorry, but, bunch of [intellectually challenged synonym], they should know this!!!
The STRAIGHT OBVIOUS answer is a FAMILY PERMIT!!! How do they not know this??? Being already a resident has absolutely no impact on your eligibility to apply for a FP.
I'm talking from personal experience, had been a resident for over 6 years, with pending RC, and got granted FP with no problem, following own HO advise.
You have been resident for 6 years in UK under EU Regulation or ?
Did you have FP before or was this your first one ?
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:57 am
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:02 am
kamoe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:01 am
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well
I don't get it. How were you able to go to your home country, then?
I asked my passport back, because I knew I might need i for family emergency.
Did you keep, by any chance, the letter they sent you with your passport? It should say something along the lines of: "Here is your passport, to enable you to travel. Please apply for a Family Permit to regain entry into the UK".
I believe there are a number of posts in this forum (including mine I shared) that mention the wording of that letter in more or less detail.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:06 am
by kamoe
Amoniman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:35 am
kamoe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:51 pm
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
No one from Home Office could tell me if I could reapply for Family permit because I`m already UK resident and currently in process of application for Residence card ( all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well). I asked if I apply for FP would it be granted in less then 15 working days since I`m already resident and in process of Application, they couldn`t tell.
Like I said, they even told me to apply for tourist visa.
I already lost 4 weeks playing deaf phones with Home Office as no one can give me a straight answer.
I'm so sorry, but, bunch of [intellectually challenged synonym], they should know this!!!
The STRAIGHT OBVIOUS answer is a FAMILY PERMIT!!! How do they not know this??? Being already a resident has absolutely no impact on your eligibility to apply for a FP.
I'm talking from personal experience, had been a resident for over 6 years, with pending RC, and got granted FP with no problem, following own HO advise.
You have been resident for 6 years in UK under EU Regulation or ?
Did you have FP before or was this your first one ?
6 years under the points system, not EU regulations, so as I said before, that was my first FP.
Again, I don't see how the differences in our cases are relevant. I understand they send the aforementioned letter above ("Please apply for a Family Permit to regain entry into the UK") to everyone applying for a RC who asks for their documents back. Most peple applying for a RC have had a FP before, so if you follow the logic, I don't see how being already resident / having FP before is at all an issue to re apply for one abroad if you are locked out as you are.
Anyway: As I said above: How long has been your RC application pending for? Chances are it will be issued very soon (takes just over a month nowadays as per latest timelines) and it will be simply a matter of your wife sending it to you via DHL?
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:18 am
by secret.simon
There is no difference between a person who has documentation issued under the EEA Regulations and a person who is applying for the first time.
A Residence Card only certifies your status on the date of application. If you lose your Residence Card abroad or did not carry it with you, you will need to apply for a Family Permit
de novo, as if you are applying for the first time, with all the proof that is required for a first time application. Similarly, as
kamoe found out, if you lose your Residence Card within the UK, you need to apply for a Residence Card with all the proofs required for a first time application.
So, if you are stranded abroad,
a) apply for a Family Permit with all the same proof as required for a Residence Card OR
b) turn up at the Eurostar terminal at Paris or Brussels with your marriage certificate, your EEA citizen spouse and proof that s/he is either exercising treaty rights in the UK or has Permanent Residence in the UK (which is the proof that is required for a Family Permit /Residence Card). Be prepared for a long delay while the Border Force go through your documentation if you go down this route.
Re: Non EEA direct family member with no Residence Card - denied boarding back to UK
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:51 am
by Amoniman
kamoe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:57 am
Amoniman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:02 am
kamoe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:01 am
Amoniman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm
all of my documents are at Home Office, my wife's passport as well
I don't get it. How were you able to go to your home country, then?
I asked my passport back, because I knew I might need i for family emergency.
Did you keep, by any chance, the letter they sent you with your passport? It should say something along the lines of: "Here is your passport, to enable you to travel. Please apply for a Family Permit to regain entry into the UK".
I believe there are a number of posts in this forum (including mine I shared) that mention the wording of that letter in more or less detail.
Yes, I got that letter with me and there is no word about applying for Family Permit if I want to re enter UK while in process of application for RC