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Lounes case, pre-settlement

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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it91
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Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by it91 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:21 am

Hi all
I have just got married to dual EEA/UK citizen (june 2019) and want to get a residence card through my husband.

He has exercised his treaty rights, got PR on Sept 2018, and got settled status in April 2019 and naturalised UK citizen in May 2019. After that he kept living in the UK (I guess this means he kept exercising his treaty rights, is it correct, or not valid anymore?).

I have Tier 4 student residence card valid until December, 2019.

My question is: Can I apply to PSS directly via EEA Settlement Scheme? Or should I apply to Lounes case for dual EEA/UK citizen's family members?

Is there anyone who recently requested a paper form for Lounes case and how long did it take to arrive, and what did you need to fill out and which evidence you needed to show? (In addition to passports of dual citizen and yours, and marriage certificate)?

I appreciate the information.
Thanks!
24.01.15-31.12.19:Tier 4 visa
02.08.19: Applied to Lounes PSS
08.08.219: Passports back with biometrics letter
12.08.19: Biometrics submitted
15.08.19: CoA issued (received on 19th)
30.08.19: PSS Granted
09.09.19: BRC arrived
31.11.19:BRC replacement

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by lappotto » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:33 pm

it91 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:21 am
Hi all
I have just got married to dual EEA/UK citizen (june 2019) and want to get a residence card through my husband.

He has exercised his treaty rights, got PR on Sept 2018, and got settled status in April 2019 and naturalised UK citizen in May 2019. After that he kept living in the UK (I guess this means he kept exercising his treaty rights, is it correct, or not valid anymore?).

I have Tier 4 student residence card valid until December, 2019.

My question is: Can I apply to PSS directly via EEA Settlement Scheme? Or should I apply to Lounes case for dual EEA/UK citizen's family members?

Is there anyone who recently requested a paper form for Lounes case and how long did it take to arrive, and what did you need to fill out and which evidence you needed to show? (In addition to passports of dual citizen and yours, and marriage certificate)?

I appreciate the information.
Thanks!
See below in bold

If your sponsor is a dual national (EEA/UK), you can only apply via the pre-settled status via the Lounes route. This can only be done via a paper form application. Call the HO, tell them you are applying for Lounes, and they will send you a paper application form (yes, no other way to do it) with you name, DOB and ref no at the top. This can take up to 4 weeks to arrive (mine arrived in 3/4 days).

Application is 44 pages long, asking the usual questions: your ID, sponsor ID, proof of relationship/address, proof sponsor has been exercising treaty rights pre and post naturalisation. You'll get a letter asking you to do BRP (unless you have it already) and note that HO said paper applications may take up to 6 months. I call every 3/4 weeks to check the status.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:01 pm

I confirm. Call them and get the paper form.

If you apply online, your application will be initially accepted. You will even get an automatic COA then next thing you know is that your application is bounced and you have to apply using the paper form.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by lappotto » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:09 pm

Zerubbabel wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:01 pm
I confirm. Call them and get the paper form.

If you apply online, your application will be initially accepted. You will even get an automatic COA then next thing you know is that your application is bounced and you have to apply using the paper form.
You can't apply online for Lounes: if you state that your sponsor has EEA AND UK citizenship, the system won't allow you to proceed with your application (at least this is what it did in my case).

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:11 pm

Someone from my family managed to apply that scenario. May be they fixed it now but it used to be possible. They even sent a COA stating a "valid application". Only when the application landed with the case worker that it was declined and a paper form sent

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by lappotto » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:40 pm

lappotto wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:33 pm
it91 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:21 am
Hi all
I have just got married to dual EEA/UK citizen (june 2019) and want to get a residence card through my husband.

He has exercised his treaty rights, got PR on Sept 2018, and got settled status in April 2019 and naturalised UK citizen in May 2019. After that he kept living in the UK (I guess this means he kept exercising his treaty rights, is it correct, or not valid anymore?).

I have Tier 4 student residence card valid until December, 2019.

My question is: Can I apply to PSS directly via EEA Settlement Scheme? Or should I apply to Lounes case for dual EEA/UK citizen's family members?

Is there anyone who recently requested a paper form for Lounes case and how long did it take to arrive, and what did you need to fill out and which evidence you needed to show? (In addition to passports of dual citizen and yours, and marriage certificate)?

I appreciate the information.
Thanks!
See below in bold

If your sponsor is a dual national (EEA/UK), you can only apply via the pre-settled status via the Lounes route. This can only be done via a paper form application. Call the HO, tell them you are applying for Lounes, and they will send you a paper application form (yes, no other way to do it) with you name, DOB and ref no at the top. This can take up to 4 weeks to arrive (mine arrived in 3/4 days).

Application is 44 pages long, asking the usual questions: your ID, sponsor ID, proof of relationship/address, proof sponsor has been exercising treaty rights pre and post naturalisation. You'll get a letter asking you to do BRP (unless you have it already) and note that HO said paper applications may take up to 6 months. I call every 3/4 weeks to check the status.
it91: have a look at the link below (pp 24ff.), it should give you an idea of what you'll be asked to provide in the paper application (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... df#page=24)

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:52 pm

Thank you. I am reading that document.

Interesting fact. The category "Dependent Relative" doesn't exist on Lounes. It does exist on non-Lounes cases, but for Lounes, it's not there:

Image

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:43 am

Note to self really but can be useful for people searching on the same topic. On the EU Settlement Scheme guidance, the Dependant Relative case exists. While in the Lounes (above) it doesn't:

Image

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:49 am

The EU Settlement scheme seems more open about the definition of "Dependent Relative" who can be anyone from the family really. While the Lounes is more specific and the relative definition is restricted to child and parents in direct ascending line.

For instance, a cousin would qualify as Dependent Relative under the general EU Settlement scheme but he wound't be eligible under Lounes.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:24 pm

Interesting Freedom of Information Act question and response from Home Office. Very relevant to the topic.

I am attaching the response from the Home Office:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sthrough=1

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by david086 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:44 pm

For those that tried applying online, where exactly did the online system not let you proceed? We did it online / through the app, and I am 99% sure we were never even asked if the sponsor has more than one nationality.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:00 pm

david086 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:44 pm
For those that tried applying online, where exactly did the online system not let you proceed? We did it online / through the app, and I am 99% sure we were never even asked if the sponsor has more than one nationality.
I know personally at least one person who applied using the App. The application went through despite the person wasn't eligible to apply online (Lounes must use paper).

The Home Office even sent an email later on with a COA indicating that a "valid application" was submitted. I have this COA email and it looks perfectly legit.

Only weeks later that the application was flagged as invalid and the person asked to use the paper form.

I think the COA is more or less automatic. It doesn't mean anything. Only when the application lands on the desk of a case worker then the error is discovered.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by david086 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:43 pm

But we were never even asked in the online application if my sponsor has dual citizenship. It asked about her nationality, but it wouldn't even let us select more than one. So we just put her EU nationality as that's what's relevant here. At no point did the online application ask us about any further nationalities, let alone specificaly British citizenship. Was this different for you?

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:04 pm

david086 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:43 pm
But we were never even asked in the online application if my sponsor has dual citizenship. It asked about her nationality, but it wouldn't even let us select more than one. So we just put her EU nationality as that's what's relevant here. At no point did the online application ask us about any further nationalities, let alone specificaly British citizenship. Was this different for you?
I am the sponsor. I didn't apply myself. That's why I have a limited view of what the application system asks. I always believed it asks for all citizenship held by the sponsor but apparently it does ask for one only.

It's after the application that the HO discovered that I am British too. For that reason, they then rejected the original application and sent the papers for Lounes.

But I didn't see the papers neither. In fact, it's an extended family member of mine who holds EFM as dependent/part of household of EEA national. However, he is no longer dependent and not part of the household for more than a year now. He told me he is going to apply because the Settlement / Lounes works regardless. At the time, I didn't have any information about these schemes so I started searching online. This is only when I found out that the eligibility criteria would be checked and if not met, they will trigger a refusal. But it's too late, the application has been lodged with the HO already...

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by david086 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:52 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:04 pm
It's after the application that the HO discovered that I am British too. For that reason, they then rejected the original application and sent the papers for Lounes.
So, hypothetically, suppose an online/app application in a Lounes case DID go through and was granted pre-settled status. Would this be something that could create issues for the applicant later? As long as I filled the application as truthfully and forthcomingly as the system let me, I should be fine, right? Anyone here have any thoughts on this?
lappotto wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:09 pm
Zerubbabel wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:01 pm
I confirm. Call them and get the paper form.

If you apply online, your application will be initially accepted. You will even get an automatic COA then next thing you know is that your application is bounced and you have to apply using the paper form.
You can't apply online for Lounes: if you state that your sponsor has EEA AND UK citizenship, the system won't allow you to proceed with your application (at least this is what it did in my case).
lappotto, in case you are still following this, do you remember where / how it asked you about further citizenships? I am 99% sure it never asked me and wouldn't even let me select more than one nationality for my sponsor. But reading of others' experiences I am beginning to wonder if I missed something.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:20 am

I am hearing contradicting things about the electronic form. My educated guess is that it was updated at some point hence people seem to share contradicting experiences about it.

Still, if your sponsor is British and EEA and you went by mistake through the normal route, they should find out and direct you to Lounes procedure. If they missed the fact that your sponsor is British and gave you settlement, this can put you in tricky situation. Because they can discover that at one point especially when it will be time to apply to renew residence or apply for citizenship... etc.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by it91 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:14 pm

Thanks for all the invaluable input here. I sent my Lounes Case paper application yesterday. All the required documents were stated at the end of the application form, so it was pretty straightforward.

I have heard that the processing times can take up to 6 months, but Home Office is generally quicker than that. Is there anyone recently finished this process and can share their timelines if possible?

If it will take up to 6 months, when can I get my passport and BRP back? Also my current visa will expire at the end of this December. If they will still take their time to process my application, will I be here illegally?

I also need to show a proof to my employers that I have full work permit. Is CoA the same proof? Or how can I proove my full work permit?
24.01.15-31.12.19:Tier 4 visa
02.08.19: Applied to Lounes PSS
08.08.219: Passports back with biometrics letter
12.08.19: Biometrics submitted
15.08.19: CoA issued (received on 19th)
30.08.19: PSS Granted
09.09.19: BRC arrived
31.11.19:BRC replacement

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by AlexAlex78 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:43 pm

it91, could I ask if you got married in the UK and so you have submitted a British marriage certificate? Would you know if a Japanese marriage certificate (translated and authorised in the UK) could be submitted using the Lounes route?

Also attempting to answer your question re passport... as long as you can demonstrate your passport is with the Home Office, I think you should be alright even if your student visa expires. I would inform the relevant Home Office department should you come close to the expiry date. I was in a similar situation but this was in 2007, my passport was kept beyond my work permit expiration date. All worked fine in the end.

it91
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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by it91 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:09 pm

AlexAlex78 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:43 pm
it91, could I ask if you got married in the UK and so you have submitted a British marriage certificate? Would you know if a Japanese marriage certificate (translated and authorised in the UK) could be submitted using the Lounes route?

Also attempting to answer your question re passport... as long as you can demonstrate your passport is with the Home Office, I think you should be alright even if your student visa expires. I would inform the relevant Home Office department should you come close to the expiry date. I was in a similar situation but this was in 2007, my passport was kept beyond my work permit expiration date. All worked fine in the end.
Hi,
Yes we got married in the UK and submitted that certificate. I reckon the approved translation should be accepted, and the form of this translation would be the same as the other spousal visas and settlement scheme requirements. In fact, this was the only proof they asked about the relationship, therefore as long as you provide it in an authorised way, you’re more than fine.

Thanks for your answer as well. I guess CoA should be enough proof that I have an ongoing application and I have a full work permit?
24.01.15-31.12.19:Tier 4 visa
02.08.19: Applied to Lounes PSS
08.08.219: Passports back with biometrics letter
12.08.19: Biometrics submitted
15.08.19: CoA issued (received on 19th)
30.08.19: PSS Granted
09.09.19: BRC arrived
31.11.19:BRC replacement

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by AlexAlex78 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:30 pm

I think that’s more than enough as a proof. All I had was my application/ work permit number.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by it91 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:05 am

I wanted to share my good news.

My PSS under Lounes Case granted.

(Letter dated 30st of August). Everything took about a month. It turns out paper application is not that slow.
24.01.15-31.12.19:Tier 4 visa
02.08.19: Applied to Lounes PSS
08.08.219: Passports back with biometrics letter
12.08.19: Biometrics submitted
15.08.19: CoA issued (received on 19th)
30.08.19: PSS Granted
09.09.19: BRC arrived
31.11.19:BRC replacement

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by AlexAlex78 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:54 am

Congrats and thank you for sharing the good news. I really hope 31st of October doesn’t bring changes to the Lounes paper application.

So good to hear it works, it gives us hope :)

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:29 am

AlexAlex78 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:54 am
Congrats and thank you for sharing the good news. I really hope 31st of October doesn’t bring changes to the Lounes paper application.

So good to hear it works, it gives us hope :)
Congratulations :)

Yes, there is a change coming to this application. Apparently, it will be possible to do it online. The eligibility criteria and other stuff won't change but it will be possible to apply online at one point.

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by it91 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:47 am

AlexAlex78 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:54 am
Congrats and thank you for sharing the good news. I really hope 31st of October doesn’t bring changes to the Lounes paper application.

So good to hear it works, it gives us hope :)
Thanks!
The only change will be probably online application, which makes it even easier and quicker.
24.01.15-31.12.19:Tier 4 visa
02.08.19: Applied to Lounes PSS
08.08.219: Passports back with biometrics letter
12.08.19: Biometrics submitted
15.08.19: CoA issued (received on 19th)
30.08.19: PSS Granted
09.09.19: BRC arrived
31.11.19:BRC replacement

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Re: Lounes case, pre-settlement

Post by AlexAlex78 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:37 pm

1) Would anyone know if the Lounes route could be applied for online now? A link would be great if so.

2) Alternatively, what is the best number HO number to inquire about an Lounes route application form?

3) Can I ask for a Lounes route form in behalf of my wife-to-be, who is based in Japan? (We're planning on getting married in Japan in January 2020, but she will joining me in the UK in June 2020).

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