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Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:31 pm
by Lh2oo
Hello everyone
Wanted to open this thread for everyone in the same situation to share the experience.
hold 5 years eu residency card and pre settled status. Waiting for decree absolute.
Im really confused, to apply for ROR under eu law or carry on with pre settled status ( have contacted home office they told me in many occasions I don’t have to re apply for it again ) but I have read they gave different answer to people .
Can you please share your experience
Thank you
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:14 pm
by EEAnonEEA
The latest version of Curtailment guidance (version 17.0) describes cases like yours on page 24.
Definitely need to re-apply.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:26 pm
by Lh2oo
Thank you
I don’t know why the HO in more then three times they told me I don’t have too , it’s very confusing.
But I think I will apply better be safe then sorry .
When I will apply I will use my residency card or passport?
Thanks
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:28 pm
by CR001
The call centre is outsourced to a third party agent!!
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:19 am
by Blacksea28
It seems like you can only apply to get ROR under EEA residency and in the future there will not be any path for only pre-settled status-card holders for family members of an EEA. So it means, if you only hold pre-settled status and the marriage is over, non-eu family member has no path to recover any residencsy such has ROR.
And the other think is that you must present your spouse's ID or passport for EEA ROR now according to new guidance, otherwise they will reject your application.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:44 am
by Obie
I do not understand the last post at all. There are clear provisions for a person who retained rights of residence to qualify for pre settled status.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:21 pm
by Lh2oo
Hey obie
So is it better and safe to reapply for another pre settled status( under retained right of stay) ?
And can i reapply ? Do you know anyone who have done it ?
Thanks
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 pm
by Lh2oo
Lh2oo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:21 pm
Hey obie
So is it better and safe to reapply for another pre settled status( under retained right of stay) ?
And can i reapply ? Do you know anyone who have done it ?
Or apply for retained right of stay under EU LAw ?
Thanks
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:52 pm
by Blacksea28
Obie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:44 am
I do not understand the last post at all. There are clear provisions for a person who retained rights of residence to qualify for pre settled status.
If non-eu person granted pre-settled status due to marriage to EU national, there is no path to apply in case of seperation. (In previous version of rules, it was possible to keep pre-settled status until it expires in case of seperation, then new application to settled status to be made and if non-eu met ROR condition then non-eu would receive settled status. Sponsor ID was not required)
After changes, if the person holds EEA satus, then there is path to apply ROR if they met the specific conditions.Once they get ROR status under EEA, they can keep their pre-settled status as well. And at the end of pre-settled period, they will be able to get settled status.
To summarize, ROR status is only for those persons come from EEA route, Before changes it was very simplified like no sponsor's ID required, no financial conditions to met etc. But after changes, in order to get ROR status, sponsor ID became mandatory again.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:05 pm
by Obie
What you said does not make any sense to me.
A person separated from EU national continues to be a family member and are covered by the Immigration Rules and the Regulations. Separation is different from divorce, as far as the law is concerned for both settled status and residence card application.
Once they divorce, they may retain a right of residence if the substantive requirements are met.
ID is not a substantive legal requirement it is an administrative requirement. People can qualify even without ID.
I really do not follow the logic of your post.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:31 pm
by Lh2oo
So is it better to apply for another pre settled under retained right of stay ?
Or apply for retained right of stay under EU law ?
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:51 pm
by goodpartner
Hi all,
Just want to clarify with the references to regulations and Immigration Law and not just to speculate on the subject as It seems to me that Blacksea28 just speaks his mind without any basis for his/her statement.
In EU Settlement Scheme Page 90 of 100 Published for Home Office staff on 03 October 2019 EU Settlement Scheme: EU, other EEA and Swiss citizens and their family members
Version 2.0
It clearly says that a person can qualify for retained rights of residence in order to apply for settled/pre-settled status status if the conditions (in such case 3 years marriage and 1 year residence in UK) are met.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Unfortunately, there is not described procedure of when you need to apply and how etc ( I did not see it)
Thank you.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:24 am
by Blacksea28
"Pre-settled status granted under these Rules is in no means a guaranteed route to settlement, it is now not guaranteed a person can retain pre-settled status to acquire the opportunity to apply for settled status. For example, a family member may cease to be a family member during the pre-settled status grant but cannot in any other way retain their status, they would find their leave cancelled and will need to investigate other routes to acquiring leave under the Rules or apply on human rights grounds to remain in the UK. "
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/welcome ... -analysis/
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:05 pm
by Sunona
The law chances by the day, so complicated.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:30 pm
by Blacksea28
Obie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:05 pm
Once they divorce, they may retain a right of residence if the substantive requirements are met.
ROR is only possible under EEA route which is covered by EU law if the substantive requirements are met. Once the person got ROR status then they can keep their pre-settled status as well and apply to settled one in the future.
But settlement scheme is under british law and there is no path to apply such as ROR. This is what I understood from the following state,
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/welcome ... -analysis/
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:35 pm
by Blacksea28
Lh2oo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:31 pm
So is it better to apply for another pre settled under retained right of stay ?
Or apply for retained right of stay under EU law ?
In settlement scheme I cannot see any path to apply ROR(retain your rights as non EU). In order to keep your pre-settled status you must have your EU sponsor or retaine your rights under EEA. So you need to apply for ROR status under EEA if you met the conditions then you will be able to keep your pre-settled status, in the future you will be able to apply for settled status as well.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/welcome ... -analysis/
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:56 pm
by Blacksea28
goodpartner wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:51 pm
Hi all,
Just want to clarify with the references to regulations and Immigration Law and not just to speculate on the subject as It seems to me that Blacksea28 just speaks his mind without any basis for his/her statement.
-
Though that you already checked version 2.0 , therefore did not quote a link... However, you can review below link,
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/welcome ... -analysis/
In EU Settlement Scheme Page 90 of 100 Published for Home Office staff on 03 October 2019 EU Settlement Scheme: EU, other EEA and Swiss citizens and their family members
Version 2.0
-
From page 86 to 100, they mentioned about EEA and their families, but regarding non-EU / divorce, they mentioned about who already holds ROR status.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Unfortunately, there is not described procedure of when you need to apply and how etc ( I did not see it)
-
Under EU settlement scheme, there is no path to ROR application. It does not even say anyhing about who can apply and how etc. this is uder British law. But if a person holds EEA residency then they can go through EEA ROR application which is under EU law if they met the conditions like 3 years of marriage and 1 year in the UK etc. Once they get ROR status then they can apply to settlement or if they already got pre-settled status they can keep it.
Thank you.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:52 pm
by goodpartner
Just look at this
YOU CAN APPLY IF:
If you were previously married or in a civil partnership
You can also apply if your marriage or civil partnership to an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen ended with a divorce, annulment or dissolution, and you lived in the UK when it ended.
One of the following must also apply:
the marriage or civil partnership lasted for at least 3 years and you’d both been living in the UK for at least one year during that time
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-ci ... ss-citizen
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:06 am
by Amirkhan042
Blacksea28 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:19 am
It seems like you can only apply to get ROR under EEA residency and in the future there will not be any path for only pre-settled status-card holders for family members of an EEA. So it means, if you only hold pre-settled status and the marriage is over, non-eu family member has no path to recover any residencsy such has ROR.
And the other think is that you must present your spouse's ID or passport for EEA ROR now according to new guidance, otherwise they will reject your application.
You seems to be the great source of information!! Thank you so much in advance for information!
I have resident card which is going to expire in December 2020 and I have pre settled status too!
I am in very bad situation with my EU wife she is going to separate next month and then may be divorce! What will happen to my status(s)???? we are married for than 4 years According to the new curtailment rules my pre settle will be curtail immediately after divorce!! So as my resident card how can then I apply for ROR??? Please help guide me I am sooooooo much stressed I can’t even sleep when I read this today!! I still love my wife but she is leaving me!!! My family and business all is going to end which I have built with soooo much efforts and hard works!!! PLEASE ANYONE ELSE WHO READ THIS CAN ALSO HELP WHAT SHALL I DO TO REMAIN??
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:06 am
by Amirkhan042
Blacksea28 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:19 am
It seems like you can only apply to get ROR under EEA residency and in the future there will not be any path for only pre-settled status-card holders for family members of an EEA. So it means, if you only hold pre-settled status and the marriage is over, non-eu family member has no path to recover any residencsy such has ROR.
And the other think is that you must present your spouse's ID or passport for EEA ROR now according to new guidance, otherwise they will reject your application.
You seems to be the great source of information!! Thank you so much in advance for information!
I have resident card which is going to expire in December 2020 and I have pre settled status too!
I am in very bad situation with my EU wife she is going to separate next month and then may be divorce! What will happen to my status(s)???? we are married for than 4 years According to the new curtailment rules my pre settle will be curtail immediately after divorce!! So as my resident card how can then I apply for ROR??? Please help guide me I am sooooooo much stressed I can’t even sleep when I read this today!! I still love my wife but she is leaving me!!! My family and business all is going to end which I have built with soooo much efforts and hard works!!! PLEASE ANYONE ELSE WHO READ THIS CAN ALSO HELP WHAT SHALL I DO TO REMAIN??
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:15 am
by Amirkhan042
To summarize, ROR status is only for those persons come from EEA route, Before changes it was very simplified like no sponsor's ID required, no financial conditions to met etc. But after changes, in order to get ROR status, sponsor ID became mandatory again.
[/quote]
This part of yours giving me a great deal of joy!!!!
Could you please explain how??? Do you have any evidence or link please? I am really stressed after hearing about new changes!!!! But thanks to this forum which is saving people’s lives!!
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:42 am
by Blacksea28
goodpartner wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:52 pm
Just look at this
YOU CAN APPLY IF:
If you were previously married or in a civil partnership
You can also apply if your marriage or civil partnership to an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen ended with a divorce, annulment or dissolution, and you lived in the UK when it ended.
One of the following must also apply:
the marriage or civil partnership lasted for at least 3 years and you’d both been living in the UK for at least one year during that time
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-ci ... ss-citizen
just scrool down and see the following state in the same link u shared
“ When you need to provide more evidence
In some cases, you’ll also need to provide the same documents as you would for a residence card application.
Check which documents you’d provide for a residence card application if:
-your family member is a British citizen and you lived together in an EU or EEA country that is not the UK, or in Switzerland - known as a ‘Surinder Singh’ application
-your family member is both a British citizen and an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, and lived in the UK as an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen before getting British citizenship
-you used to have an EU, EEA or Swiss family member living in the UK - known as a ‘retained rights of residence’ application”
But anyway, in order to keep pre-settled status, you need to hold ROR status, it is clear in the link I shared in my previous posts and in guidance version 2
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:50 am
by Blacksea28
Amirkhan042 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:15 am
To summarize, ROR status is only for those persons come from EEA route, Before changes it was very simplified like no sponsor's ID required, no financial conditions to met etc. But after changes, in order to get ROR status, sponsor ID became mandatory again.
This part of yours giving me a great deal of joy!!!!
Could you please explain how??? Do you have any evidence or link please? I am really stressed after hearing about new changes!!!! But thanks to this forum which is saving people’s lives!!
[/quote]
Probably, You would need to meet with the followings,
Retained rights of residence
You can also apply if you used to have a family member, or extended family member, who was a permanent resident or qualified person. This is called a ‘retained right of residence’. You may get this if, for example:
your marriage or civil partnership to an EEA citizen has ended (with a divorce, annulment or dissolution)
your EEA family member has died and you lived in the UK as their family member for at least one year before their death
you’re in education and you’re the child of an EEA citizen (or their current or former spouse or civil partner) who has left the UK or died
your child has a retained right of residence because they’re in education in the UK (and you have custody of them)
You’ll need to prove:
that your family member, or extended family member, was a permanent resident or qualified person at the time your family relationship ended
how the relationship ended, for example a death certificate or decree absolute if you divorced
You can only retain your right of residence as an extended family member if both the following apply:
you currently hold a valid residence card as the extended family member of an EEA national
you meet all of the relevant conditions
You cannot retain your right of residence if you were the unmarried partner of the EEA national and that relationship has broken down.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... ligibility
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:58 am
by Obie
Rule EU 14 (1)(a)(iii) of the Immigration Rules does provide for grant of Leave to Remain for applicant who qualifies for a retained right of Residence.
The point you are making clearly does not add up. It has the potential of confusing applicants, who are clearly entitled to apply for a pre-settled or Settled status, as the case may be, on the back of retained right of residence.
Re: Retained right of stay and pre settled status
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:23 pm
by Amirkhan042
Well it still very confusing specially adding euss to curtailment guide!! If you can check the guide page 24.. version 17
Please Give a simple answer first that what will happen to me if I get divorced in start of next year
What do I have to do with my RC card that is for 5 years as a spouse of eeu family member expiring in December 2020 and my pres settlement which I have obtained this in February 2019.. as I don’t have ROR yet! will my pre settlement will be curtailed or not? 1 if not what will be my next step? 2 if yes what options I will have?
One more interesting point as we are now under Uk regulations can I combine my previous period on their 4 visa and euss for ten years ilr route? Though I still have to complete as I will be here for continuous 9 years next year and I hope one year could elapsed during those applications?