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EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:03 am
by ZahAhmad
I am an Italian national living with my wife in uk from 4 years we both have pre-settled status and I am working as self employed and my wife is Pakistani national and she has applied for Italian nationality which is not expected to be approved before December 2020, my wife wants to bring her sister (over 18) from Pakistan who is financially dependant on her as she sent her money every month, I know after Jan 2017 extended family members of an EU spouse are not considered, but is there any way we can bring her here what are the chances of success in initial application and in appeal if refused initially ? And what documents we need if she can apply? Please advise
Thank you in advance
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:07 pm
by Obie
That is no longer the law. You may bring in relatives of your Non EEA spouse, provided they are dependent on you.
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:12 pm
by ZahAhmad
Obie wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 12:07 pm
That is no longer the law. You may bring in relatives of your Non EEA spouse, provided they are dependent on you.
That’s good news, do you have any reference or link to confirm if thats the case, has this law been turned down by the court recently ?
my wife is house wife and has been sending money to her, can I start sending in my name or this should be fine and what documents are needed ?
Many thanks
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:16 pm
by Obie
I am going to ask for a pause on the view I expressed, until I have done further research.
I believe there is no official changes yet, but it follows from the CJEU decision in SM and the views of the Supreme court, that the imposition placed in the regulations in relation to the relative of the EEA 's non-EEA spouse is unlawful.
Just for clarity, I do not want anyone to hold it against me, that Obie said the regulations has been changed.
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:08 pm
by ZahAhmad
Obie wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 12:16 pm
I am going to ask for a pause on the view I expressed, until I have done further research.
I believe there is no official changes yet, but it follows from the CJEU decision in SM and the views of the Supreme court, that the imposition placed in the regulations in relation to the relative of the EEA 's non-EEA spouse is unlawful.
Just for clarity, I do not want anyone to hold it against me, that Obie said the regulations has been changed.
Ok I do appreciate what you saying, please provide update when you get further information, do you have a link to the case law please ?
Many thanks
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:17 am
by ZahAhmad
Obie wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 12:07 pm
That is no longer the law. You may bring in relatives of your Non EEA spouse, provided they are dependent on you.
Does she need to be directly dependant on EU sponsor, or dependant on non Eu spouse is also acceptable ?
Thank you
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:38 am
by Zerubbabel
The dependency has to be proven against the EU sponsor not a non-EU person. There is no concept of dependent of EU-dependent.
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:47 am
by ZahAhmad
Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Sat May 16, 2020 10:38 am
The dependency has to be proven against the EU sponsor not a non-EU person. There is no concept of
dependent of EU-dependent.
Thank you Zerubbabel , my wife has been sending money from last 7 months but I can send in my name this month and next month before applying and at least we will have couple receipts in my name as well, And we can explain in covering letter that my wife is not working so the money she is sending is coming from our household, will that be helpful ?
Thank you
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 4:46 pm
by Obie
My main point was in relation to "relative of the EEA national".
There has to be a dependency on the EEA national.
https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov. ... 07411-2018
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:59 pm
by ZahAhmad
Thanks Obie, this is going to be helpful , is it good idea to mention this case in covering letter for a case worker ?
And please advise if 7 money transfer receipts from my wife and 2 receipts from me are going to be ok ?
Thank you
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:26 am
by Zerubbabel
Thanks Obie, this is going to be helpful , is it good idea to mention this case in covering letter for a case worker ?
And please advise if 7 money transfer receipts from my wife and 2 receipts from me are going to be ok ?
Thank you
Before sponsoring an adult, I always recommend going to see a financial adviser and do some mathematics regarding your disposable income. Most banks offer such service for free to their clients. As a sponsor, you can get carried away by your generosity and willingness to help someone but you don't actually measure how much is it going to cost you over the years. An adult needs more than just sitting with you at the dinner table and having a mattress somewhere. An adviser can help you to prepare a realistic schedule of the costs and see if you can afford them.
Then, your wife sending money for 7 months, you can just remove that from the equation. A non-EEA sending money to a non-EEA doesn't build any right.
2 receipts from me are going to be ok ?
Absolutely not. You will never demonstrate a dependency with 2 Western Union receipts for an EEA EFM application. They need to see a whole financial situation and the dependency genuinely established over a long period of time. That dependency should be so strongly formulated that it would be easier for the Home Office to approve the application than to dismiss it with a refusal.
Last time I have seen a successful EEA EFM, the application contained dozens of documents proving dependency over more than 3 years. Some documents were:
- Medical invoices from a clinic showing the dependent as patient but the sponsor as the person to pay. Then bank statement showing the money leaving the sponsor's account and being paid to the clinic
- Various school / training invoices showing the dependent as beneficiary but with the invoice addressed to the sponsor + proof of payment
- Various flights tickets showing the dependent as passenger but paid by the sponsor credit card
... etc.
And there was a social situation explaining how the applicant became dependent of the EEA sponsor. The application was accepted within 6 weeks.
I think as in any application, the Home Office is perceived as adversary. But still, it's important to respect them and avoid creating artificial situations to fit under an immigration category. They treat millions of applications a year so they are very good as spotting artificial situations.
If you quickly send 2 or 3 Western Union then fill an EEA EFM, it will be refused. Then, the person would never qualify for a visitor visa. It means if you want to invite her later for any occasion, she won't be accepted as a visitor as the failed immigration application will stay on her records for as long as she shall live.
To be honest, we are in May 2020 and to this day, she is not dependent. I don't see you building a convincing artificial situation in the next 8 or 12 weeks to pass the EEA EFM dependency requirements.
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:07 pm
by ZahAhmad
Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 10:26 am
Thanks Obie, this is going to be helpful , is it good idea to mention this case in covering letter for a case worker ?
And please advise if 7 money transfer receipts from my wife and 2 receipts from me are going to be ok ?
Thank you
Before sponsoring an adult, I always recommend going to see a financial adviser and do some mathematics regarding your disposable income. Most banks offer such service for free to their clients. As a sponsor, you can get carried away by your generosity and willingness to help someone but you don't actually measure how much is it going to cost you over the years. An adult needs more than just sitting with you at the dinner table and having a mattress somewhere. An adviser can help you to prepare a realistic schedule of the costs and see if you can afford them.
Then, your wife sending money for 7 months, you can just remove that from the equation. A non-EEA sending money to a non-EEA doesn't build any right.
2 receipts from me are going to be ok ?
Absolutely not. You will never demonstrate a dependency with 2 Western Union receipts for an EEA EFM application. They need to see a whole financial situation and the dependency genuinely established over a long period of time. That dependency should be so strongly formulated that it would be easier for the Home Office to approve the application than to dismiss it with a refusal.
Last time I have seen a successful EEA EFM, the application contained dozens of documents proving dependency over more than 3 years. Some documents were:
- Medical invoices from a clinic showing the dependent as patient but the sponsor as the person to pay. Then bank statement showing the money leaving the sponsor's account and being paid to the clinic
- Various school / training invoices showing the dependent as beneficiary but with the invoice addressed to the sponsor + proof of payment
- Various flights tickets showing the dependent as passenger but paid by the sponsor credit card
... etc.
And there was a social situation explaining how the applicant became dependent of the EEA sponsor. The application was accepted within 6 weeks.
I think as in any application, the Home Office is perceived as adversary. But still, it's important to respect them and avoid creating artificial situations to fit under an immigration category. They treat millions of applications a year so they are very good as spotting artificial situations.
If you quickly send 2 or 3 Western Union then fill an EEA EFM, it will be refused. Then, the person would never qualify for a visitor visa. It means if you want to invite her later for any occasion, she won't be accepted as a visitor as the failed immigration application will stay on her records for as long as she shall live.
To be honest, we are in May 2020 and to this day, she is not dependent. I don't see you building a convincing artificial situation in the next 8 or 12 weeks to pass the EEA EFM dependency requirements.
Thank you Zerubbabel for your response, I know realistically it doesn’t sound easy but I am bit optimistic and going to try to bring family member here and can explain in covering letter the situation in more detail, also Obie has kindly shared a case law which is relevant and I think going to be very helpful, which I am going to mention in letter as well and let’s hope for the best,
Anyone else can advise please ? senior members ??
Thank you
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:35 pm
by Zerubbabel
explain in covering letter the situation in more detail
A good covering letter can always help but be careful not stating anything that may deserve you.
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:18 am
by ZahAhmad
I have seen 2 recent refusal letters for EEA family permit EFM (Dated July 2019 & Feb 2020) and both says exactly this
“Guidance states that financial dependence should be interpreted as meaning that the family member needs the financial support of the EEA national or his or her spouse/civil partner to meet the family members essential needs in the country where they are present - not in order to have a certain level of income”
Does that means it is acceptable to be dependant on EEA national‘s spouse ? Do u know what guidance they are referring to ? Please advise
Thank you
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:20 pm
by ZahAhmad
ZahAhmad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:18 am
I have seen 2 recent refusal letters for EEA family permit EFM (Dated July 2019 & Feb 2020) and both says exactly this
“Guidance states that financial dependence should be interpreted as meaning that the family member needs the financial support of the EEA national or his or her spouse/civil partner to meet the family members essential needs in the country where they are present - not in order to have a certain level of income”
Does that means it is acceptable to be dependant on EEA national‘s spouse ? Do u know what guidance they are referring to ? Please advise
Thank you
Any advise ?
Re: EEA family permit for sister in law from Pakistan (EFM of a non EU spouse)
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:32 pm
by Zerubbabel
The case you are sharing is different. It's a misrepresentation. They played on similar names to misrepresent the family relationship.
In my experience, EEA EFM are a hit and miss. The Home Office look at them from the angle of refusal rather than trying to find the merits. Sometimes, you may see applications that seem very weak succeeding but sometimes, it's just the opposite. I don't have official statistics in hand, but it seems to me that the refusal risk is high.
Nobody can tell beforehand. The only option for you, is to go forward and give it a go. The application is not expensive. Put all your guts in it, add as many pieces of evidence as you can and send it.
We are in June 2020. In 5 months+, this applications will be over. So, you have nothing to lose.