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How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 pm
by isabelll
Hello!. I am a resident of the EU and I had planned to move to the UK in October, however, due to the Covid, I am going to move in January 2021. To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier, I have thought in staying the minimum required time in the UK this year to obtain a pre-settled status. My question is, what is the minimum time living in the UK required to obtain a pre-settlement status?. I am going to live in a hostel which I am going to pay weekly. Could the receipts be proof that I am living in the UK?.

Regards.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:31 pm
by alterhase58
isabelll wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 pm
Hello!. I am a resident of the EU and I had planned to move to the UK in October, however, due to the Covid, I am going to move in January 2021. To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier, I have thought in staying the minimum required time in the UK this year to obtain a pre-settled status. My question is, what is the minimum time living in the UK required to obtain a pre-settlement status?. I am going to live in a hostel which I am going to pay weekly. Could the receipts be proof that I am living in the UK?.

Regards.
You have to be resident in the UK by 31.12.2020 - not just staying in a hostel as a visitor and coming back later - then you can apply for settled status (deadline for all is 30.6.2021).
If you arrive after 1.1.2021 employers will need to have a sponsor licence, etc.
You should post this in the EEA forum.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:20 pm
by Zerubbabel
isabelll wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 pm
Hello!. I am a resident of the EU and I had planned to move to the UK in October, however, due to the Covid, I am going to move in January 2021. To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier, I have thought in staying the minimum required time in the UK this year to obtain a pre-settled status. My question is, what is the minimum time living in the UK required to obtain a pre-settlement status?. I am going to live in a hostel which I am going to pay weekly. Could the receipts be proof that I am living in the UK?.

Regards.
Every time you have an "amazing idea", you need to think that many other people may have had the same idea and the Home Office must see tons of applications with the same pattern.

As you are new with the immigration in the UK, it's all but fair to inform you that the Home Office is the boldest administration in this country. Please keep it genuine and regular.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:24 am
by kamoe
isabelll wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 pm
To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier
You are effectively saying you intend to circumvent UK immigration laws. In that light, no one in this forum can advise you how to do that, since that goes agains these forum's rules.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:07 pm
by isabelll
kamoe wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:24 am
isabelll wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 pm
To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier
You are effectively saying you intend to circumvent UK immigration laws. In that light, no one in this forum can advise you how to do that, since that goes agains these forum's rules.
Well, actually I am not trying to circumvent UK immigration laws at all, I am just trying to do a simpler process. I am going to live in the UK but I find much more simple to obtain a pre-Settlement status for five years rather than applying for a student visa and later for a point-based worker visa. It is not trying to trick Home Office, I am going to stay rightfully in the UK with a student visa or with a pre-settlement status. I am just asking for information about such status.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:38 pm
by Zerubbabel
The rules are simple really.

- If you come to live in the UK before the end of the year, you will benefit from the transition regulations in place and your immigration will be easy. It's just a form to fill with near 100% acceptance rate; no questions asked.

- This system, however, is going to an end and starting from Jan 1, 2021, it will be closed to new entrants. You would have then to go through a different system, probably more complex, if you want to live in the UK.

So you have the deal on the table. If living in the UK is important for you, make sure you make it before the end of the year.

But what you can't do, is renting a cheap room somewhere then going back to Spain in order to keep an artificial footprint to benefit from current regulations. Most often than not, the Home Office will know what you did. In the UK, all files are connected to each other and immigration authorities have more visibility than in any other country.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:45 pm
by kamoe
I kindly invite you to assume responsibility for what you say, and to be consistent. Also please remember this is all to help you make the right decisions.
isabelll wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:07 pm
I am not trying to circumvent UK immigration laws at all, I am just trying to do a simpler process.
Let's see: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... circumvent
circumvent something: to find a way of avoiding a difficulty or a rule
Trying to find a simpler way around the immigration rules that should apply to you, is effectively trying to circumvent immigration rules.
I am going to live in the UK
That's not what's under dispute. What is questionable is how you are planning to justify your eligibility to the EUSS to the Home Office.
I find much more simple to obtain a pre-Settlement status for five years rather than applying for a student visa and later for a point-based worker visa.
Well that's the point. Do you think you are the only person? You and anyone else would find it simpler, hence why you and anyone else would prefer to benefit from it. The Home Office is completely aware of this.

To benefit from the easier, simpler route of EUSS, you need to comply with the requirements, not simply make it look like you comply with the requirements.
It is not trying to trick Home Office
You clearly stated that:

1. It is your intention to move in January 2021.
2. It is your intention to come earlier and stay in a hostel for the "the minimum required time in the UK this year to obtain a pre-settled status".
3. This is "To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier".

Are you comfortably admitting to the Home Office all three points above? If the answer is No, then your actions have the intent of tricking the Home Office.
I am going to stay rightfully in the UK with a student visa or with a pre-settlement status. I am just asking for information about such status.
Hopefully all of our answers here have clarified the consequences of your intentions, and how you should approach your future immigration plans.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:20 pm
by secret.simon
isabelll wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:07 pm
Well, actually I am not trying to circumvent UK immigration laws at all, I am just trying to do a simpler process. I am going to live in the UK but I find much more simple to obtain a pre-Settlement status for five years rather than applying for a student visa and later for a point-based worker visa. It is not trying to trick Home Office, I am going to stay rightfully in the UK with a student visa or with a pre-settlement status. I am just asking for information about such status.
Staying in the UK in a hostel for a couple of weeks will likely not be seen as residence, but as visiting. You would want to do more than visiting to be able to come back later in 2021.

Try and get a temporary job, apply for and get a NINo, pay taxes, even if you end up working only for a month or so. I think that that would count as residence rather than visiting. You would then likely be able to resume your residence in the UK post 2020.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:52 pm
by Obie
An EU citizen who enters the UK at any time before the end of the transition ends is entitled to pre-settled status.

I have not seen any rules or procedures that stipulate a genuine residence test, or distinguishes between hotel or flat residence.

The individual needs to show they have resided in the UK at least 1 day in the last 6 months.

Therefore i am totally in disagreement with some of the views expressed here.

I stand to be corrected, and those who are espousing those views are at liberty to provide evidence counteracting what i have stated.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:03 am
by DerickChu
@Obie you are perfectly right..Thank you for that correction.
It’s a simple question which requires a simple answer.
As EU citizen your flight itinerary ticket and a night in a hotel is enough to prove your residence for Pre-Settled, no need to have a job, or get nino or pay taxes before you can apply for pre-settled status.
As simple as that!!

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:23 am
by Zerubbabel
I have not seen any rules or procedures that stipulate a genuine residence test, or distinguishes between hotel or flat residence.
In theory you are right. It's possible to an EEA national to book a room at Gatwick for the night and during these shorts hours in the UK fill an EU Settlement Scheme for himself, spouse, parents and in-laws.

I don't consider the EU Settlement Scheme as an immigration route but as a Settlement Scheme. This is the only route in the UK, possibly in the whole world, that doesn't test if residence is genuine or not, if dependency is genuine or not... at the moment, anyone who bothers to lodge an application is accepted.

Knowing the Home Office, I wonder what's they are doing. This route is probably the most abused at the moment. I won't be surprised if in the coming years, they will start having a second thought about these cards they are distributing like candies then introducing tests for renewals or getting the Settled status.

When the Brexit is completed, the Home Office will get more power than before. That's why, even if their bar seems low at the moment, I still recommend placing own bar as high as possible and play it genuine.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:54 am
by Obie
kamoe wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:45 pm
I kindly invite you to assume responsibility for what you say, and to be consistent. Also please remember this is all to help you make the right decisions.
isabelll wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:07 pm
I am not trying to circumvent UK immigration laws at all, I am just trying to do a simpler process.
Let's see: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... circumvent
circumvent something: to find a way of avoiding a difficulty or a rule
Trying to find a simpler way around the immigration rules that should apply to you, is effectively trying to circumvent immigration rules.
I am going to live in the UK
That's not what's under dispute. What is questionable is how you are planning to justify your eligibility to the EU Settlement Scheme to the Home Office.
I find much more simple to obtain a pre-Settlement status for five years rather than applying for a student visa and later for a point-based worker visa.
Well that's the point. Do you think you are the only person? You and anyone else would find it simpler, hence why you and anyone else would prefer to benefit from it. The Home Office is completely aware of this.

To benefit from the easier, simpler route of EU Settlement Scheme, you need to comply with the requirements, not simply make it look like you comply with the requirements.
It is not trying to trick Home Office
You clearly stated that:

1. It is your intention to move in January 2021.
2. It is your intention to come earlier and stay in a hostel for the "the minimum required time in the UK this year to obtain a pre-settled status".
3. This is "To avoid the process of applying for the point-based tier".

Are you comfortably admitting to the Home Office all three points above? If the answer is No, then your actions have the intent of tricking the Home Office.
I am going to stay rightfully in the UK with a student visa or with a pre-settlement status. I am just asking for information about such status.
Hopefully all of our answers here have clarified the consequences of your intentions, and how you should approach your future immigration plans.
I do not think it is circumvent. That term has connotations of abuse or creating some artificial conditions, just to show formalities are met.

In this case the OP intends to stay in the UK, a month after the scheme. It may be due to personal reasons she cannot do it before 31-12-2020.

To say she should wait until 01-01-2021, the month she is meant to relocate, sounds absurd to me.


Many people make arrangements to move to their host country several months before the actual move.

I have several applicant renewing their leave before the increase NHS surcharge, are you going to say that is circumvention. It will be absurd to suggest.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:22 pm
by kamoe
I find this topic mind-bending, for several reasons. But in the end I agree that the bottomline is, it will be possible for the OP to apply for Pre-Settled status within reasonable grounds. See below.
Obie wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:54 am
I do not think it is circumvent. That term has connotations of abuse or creating some artificial conditions, just to show formalities are met.
I'd like to say, let's agree to disagree. I do think this could be described as circumvention, but having dived into the EUSS case worker guidelines, I think that for these applications, just as is happening for applications for non-EU dependent parents, where dependency is assumed, the Home Office is being explicitly and particularly tolerant of circumventions, and residence is assumed! (See further details below).
To say she should wait until 01-01-2021, the month she is meant to relocate, sounds absurd to me.
I apologise if that's the message implied. Not at all. If the OP can arrange to genuinely move to the UK before her course starts next year, then by all means she is in her right to do it.

My thinking really was more along the lines of what @secret_simon suggested: simply coming for a weekend visit will likely be intentionally aligned with circumvention; whilst a meaningful stay with actions conducting to her future establishment, like opening a bank account, looking and finding permanent accommodation, getting a NI number, and perhaps doing actual work (none of which was mentioned by the OP), will be akin to represent the beginning of her UK residence.

I guess I simply want to make clear I that I specifically distance any advice I give here with what the OP described as actions conducted "to avoid applying for the point-based tier".

Now to the actual meat of the answer here, and for the interest of the OP: As you say, there is no minimum required length of residence to qualify for Pre-Settled Status. Once could theoretically come to the UK on December 31st and apply that very day, and successfully be granted Pre-Settled status.

What will happen is this:

1. Assuming the applicant has not done anything but arrive in the UK (no NI number, no work history), the System will find no evidence of residence prior to the application date.
2. The applicant will then be invited to upload evidence, which can be in the form of :
-Preferred evidence (stronger evidence that confirm longer residence periods), or
-Alternative evidence (somehow weaker evidence, since they only cover shorter periods, but still acceptable)

As part of alternative evidence, it includes:
• a passport stamp confirming entry at the UK border - this will be treated as
evidence of residence for the month of entry
• a used travel ticket confirming previous inbound travel to the UK - this will be
treated as evidence of residence for the month of entry
(See section 'Evidence of residence' in the EUSS caseworker guidance)

So, given there is no minimum residence period to qualify for Pre-Settled Status, a month's residence is effectively enough qualifying time, and the above suggests that the only thing the OP needs to do is ask for her passport to be stamped on arrival to the UK, and/or make sure to keep records of her used boarding pass. Either of this alone would be enough to prove UK residence for that month. So:

3. If the application is made in the same month of the documented travel, or very shortly the month after, the applicant will likely be granted Pre-Settled status. However, if the application is made more than two months after the documented travel then additional evidence will be required to cover subsequent months (very likely stronger evidence, not just another documented later trip).

This is mind-bending because nothing stops any EU citizen who comes to the UK for a weekend trip at any time between now and December 31st 2020 from successfully obtaining Pre-Settled status. This is in complete contrast to previous EEA regulations, where EU citizens had to be 'qualified persons' exercising treaty rights to even submit a valid application.

However, I understand that the application process does ask for the applicant's confirmation that they are resident in the UK at the time of application, so this could be understood as a confirmation of the good faith of the application. The definition of 'residence' is nowhere to be found in the Appendix EU of the Immigration rules.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:08 am
by isabelll
Thank you all!. It turns out that the pre-settlement status only requires to prove that I have resided one day in the UK in the 6 months preceding the application in 2020, so I have decided to start living there since the end of December.

Regards.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:15 pm
by JB007
isabelll wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:08 am
Thank you all!. It turns out that the pre-settlement status only requires to prove that I have resided one day in the UK in the 6 months preceding the application in 2020, so I have decided to start living there since the end of December.

Regards.
What proof do you think be sufficient for you to show after 31 Decemebr 2020, that you can stay in the UK for more than 3 months? To show educational institutions that you study in the UK? To show employers that you can work in the UK? Show landlords you can rent in the UK? Show the NHS that you can use it bill free; will a Spanish EHIC will cover you from 1 January 2021 if needs be? Pre-Settled status being granted will prove all the above, but that takes months to be granted.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:57 pm
by naa
JB007 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:15 pm
isabelll wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:08 am
Thank you all!. It turns out that the pre-settlement status only requires to prove that I have resided one day in the UK in the 6 months preceding the application in 2020, so I have decided to start living there since the end of December.

Regards.
What proof do you think be sufficient for you to show after 31 Decemebr 2020, that you can stay in the UK for more than 3 months? To show educational institutions that you study in the UK? To show employers that you can work in the UK? Show landlords you can rent in the UK? Show the NHS that you can use it bill free; will a Spanish EHIC will cover you from 1 January 2021 if needs be? Pre-Settled status being granted will prove all the above, but that takes months to be granted.
If people are in the UK before 31st Dec.2020 which is the exit date, I think they can still rely on their European ID to proof their rights to be in the UK until June 2021 which hopefully by then will have put in an application and would have been issued with a COA or pre settled status. I stand to be corrected if am wrong.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:39 pm
by JB007
naa wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:57 pm
JB007 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:15 pm
isabelll wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:08 am
Thank you all!. It turns out that the pre-settlement status only requires to prove that I have resided one day in the UK in the 6 months preceding the application in 2020, so I have decided to start living there since the end of December.

Regards.
What proof do you think be sufficient for you to show after 31 Decemebr 2020, that you can stay in the UK for more than 3 months? To show educational institutions that you study in the UK? To show employers that you can work in the UK? Show landlords you can rent in the UK? Show the NHS that you can use it bill free; will a Spanish EHIC will cover you from 1 January 2021 if needs be? Pre-Settled status being granted will prove all the above, but that takes months to be granted.
If people are in the UK before 31st Dec.2020 which is the exit date, I think they can still rely on their European ID to proof their rights to be in the UK until June 2021 which hopefully by then will have put in an application and would have been issued with a COA or pre settled status. I stand to be corrected if am wrong.
For those moving to the UK at the last minute, how will a European ID being shown after 31 December 2020, be proof of resisiding in the UK by 31 Decemeber 2020, to showe a landlord/letting agent, NHS staff, potential employers, a university etc? I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm wondering how that would work?



After 31 December 2020 you might be asked to prove your right to do things like get a job or use the NHS. You’ll be able to do this by showing you have ‘pre-settled status’ or ‘settled status’ under the EU Settlement Scheme, or British citizenship.

Getting your status will prove your right to:

stay in the UK for more than 3 months
work
study
use the NHS
claim the State Pension
rent a home

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... om-the-eu/

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:39 pm
by kamoe
JB007 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:15 pm
Pre-Settled status being granted will prove all the above, but that takes months to be granted.
I understand Pre-Settled status is straightforward and confirmed within 48 hours if the applicant has some record of residence in the UK, e.g. a NI number and/or record of employment (contributions to national insurance). I this is not the case, then yes, this confirmation of status can take longer.

Hence why some of us have suggested it is preferred to genuinely start the move and conduct actions that are aligned with future residence, at least getting a NI number, rather than simply visiting for a few days. This will expedite the confirmation of status.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:18 am
by JB007
kamoe wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:39 pm
JB007 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:15 pm
Pre-Settled status being granted will prove all the above, but that takes months to be granted.
I understand Pre-Settled status is straightforward and confirmed within 48 hours if the applicant has some record of residence in the UK, e.g. a NI number and/or record of employment (contributions to national insurance). I this is not the case, then yes, this confirmation of status can take longer.

Hence why some of us have suggested it is preferred to genuinely start the move and conduct actions that are aligned with future residence, at least getting a NI number, rather than simply visiting for a few days. This will expedite the confirmation of status.
Thank you kamoe. I knew the HO could use the applicants NINo to be able to automatically check they are paying taxes in the UK or their UK welfare benefits record, as proof they are in the UK for the settlement scheme.

I didn't know how it will work if somebody arrives just before the UK closes the EU immigration door and therefore there is no UK tax record of them in the UK for the HO to automatically issue pre-settlement. I don't see how the card can be issued automatically, especially as after 31 December 2020, EEA citizens can be asked for their proof of being granted pre-settlement if they want to rent, study, work, free healthcare etc.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:35 am
by kamoe
JB007 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:18 am
I don't see how the card can be issued automatically, especially as after 31 December 2020, EEA citizens can be asked for their proof of being granted pre-settlement if they want to rent, study, work, free healthcare etc.
Hence the soonest one moves to the UK the better, to avoid being in limbo for too long.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:43 am
by Zerubbabel
I don't recommend that people wait the last day or week of December to apply.

It's possible that many people would try at that point and the online system may or may not be able to cope with that. If you manage to get to the page on January 1st at 3 AM, it's would be too late.

Also, there is always a risk with invalid applications. Someone may fill an application in time but if it's rejected due to mistake on name, DOB or something, there would be no further opportunity to lodge new application again.

And as other pointed out, someone may potentially fill a correct application in December but without the proper status in hand, it would be hard to access GP, Bank, school/university, work, travel...

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:50 am
by secret.simon
Freemovement: Applying for settled and pre-settled status requires genuine residence

To add to the information in the link above, in the UK Immigration Rules, "residence" means more than mere presence. Just physically being in the UK does not count, nor would a short visit.

Residence generally requires signs that you are here for the long term; opening and operating bank accounts, applying for jobs, engagement with various government bodies that suggest that you will be settling in the UK for a while at least (applying for a NINo would be a start), etc.

Re: How many time living in the UK is required to obtain a pre-settlement status?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:22 pm
by Zerubbabel
Very interesting article indeed. I have anectodal evidence that a lot of people are playing the system. The Home Office has its hands tied behind its back when it comes to the EU Settlement Scheme. For political reasons, they say "yes" to nearly any EUSS application as the UK doesn't want to look too hostile to the European Union (yet) during this transition period.

However, once we are passed that transition period, that political pressure won't exist anymore. Then, I anticipate new procedures to see if people are genuinely eligible.

It's more important than ever to play by the book and put own bar as high as possible and document everything just in case.