Immigrationboards.com

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:59 pm**

Dear Sir/Madam,

We are planning to apply for our Dad under EU
settlement scheme in UK for family members of an Irish citizen(brother).
My brother is an Irish citizen, living in Ireland with his wife and kids(all Irish citizens).
Me, my husband and child living in UK for last 10 years and planning to apply for ILR in couple of weeks , based on our lawful residency in UK. Till date, me, my husband and child are all Indian citizens.

Our widower Dad is an Indian citizen , living in India, all by himself.

We have come across this information on UK citizens advice website:

If you want to bring your family members to the UK, check if they can apply for pre-settled or settled status.

If you have Irish citizenship
If your family member wants to come and live in the UK, they’ll need to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme or for Irish citizenship if they’re eligible. Check if your family member can get Irish citizenship on Citizens Information - this is an advice website run by the Irish government.

If they’re a citizen of a country outside the EU, EEA or Switzerland, you can help them apply to the EU Settlement Scheme by applying first.

You don’t need to apply, but it will make your family member’s application easier if you do. If you apply, they will not have to prove you live in the UK when they apply. If your family member is a citizen of a country outside the EU, EEA or Switzerland, you can help them apply to the EU Settlement Scheme by applying first.

Secondly, we want to be sure what we are going to get after this application.
We can apply for Dad to enter the UK for first 6 months under EU settlement scheme family permit and during the 6 month stay here in UK , we apply for 5 years permit(i.e. pre-settled status).
We want to confirm, on free NHS services, that my father will compulsorily get from the first 6 months onwards?( it's very important for us, as he is a cancer patient).
Does he have to continuously stay for the whole 5 year period?
How does it work after that?
Is there a guarantee that after 5 years, he will get ILR?
Reason to ask is, not to trouble dad with unsettled life.

Dad already has 3-4 visitor visa refusals from Ireland and 1 from UK.
He happened to overstay his first Irish visitor visa(Feb- April 2014) by 9 months because of repetitive applications to Irish authorities to grant long term stay to Dad. At that time, Dad was grieving for his wife's death which happened in Dec 2013.
He was repeatedly notified by Irish authorities to apply for long term stay in Ireland ,from outside Ireland and ultimately he had to leave Ireland as he was at the risk of deportation, if he didn't leave Ireland. So, he left Ireland in Jan 2015.
All the visitor visa refusals of UK and Ireland happened after that overstay in Ireland.

UKBA refused Visitor visa in Aug 2015, because we didn't give any information in dad's application, of why dad overstayed in Ireland (at that time, we were unaware that we had to mention Ireland overstay reason in UK application).
Would that be considered as Deception in dad's EU settlement scheme application?

And also UKBA refused his visit to UK, as Dad has no immediate family in India to go back to, as both son and daughter are out of India.

Dad finally got stamp 0 permit(1 year permit)from Ireland and stayed from 4th March till December 2020 in Ireland.

Dad has gone back to India and doesn't want to go back to Ireland.
We won't be able to convince my brother to apply for his EU settled status in UK because of family problems and without my brother's settled status in UK, what are the chances for dad's case to be successful?

There is also some information on showing brother's presence in UK before 31st Dec 2020, which is not possible as of today's date.

If there is a possibility for success of Dad's EU settled status application, we can request brother to share his Irish documents with us for dad's application.

Note: Dad's Ireland Stamp 0 permit expires in first week of March 2021(Dad has a Irish residence card expiring in March 2021,which might be helpful to prove dad - son relationship).

I hope it gives a rough idea on our case.
Please clarify our queries so that we can decide to proceed ahead.
Awaiting your response.

Thanks,

(Applicant's daughter)

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:50 pm**

His son has naturalised as an Irish citizen, lives in Ireland and intends to remain in Ireand?

He (the father) lives in India after overstaying in Ireland and being refused permission to remain in Ireland, then refused visitor visas to the UK?

Your asking if this Indian national can use his son living in Ireland, to move to the UK under the EU settlemnt scheme and get pre-settled status?

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:31 pm**

I don't think that your Irish brother can sponsor your father under the EU Settlement Scheme if your Irish brother wasn't already resident in the UK before 31/12/2020.

The EU Settlement Scheme is only open to family members of EEA citizens who were resident in the UK before that date. But wait for others to advise further.

I'll cc in @Obie, who is more knowledgeable about matters relating to Ireland and the UK.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:09 pm**

I concur with the views expressed by Secret Simon.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:48 pm**

As per the EU Settlement Scheme caseworker guidance, page 67-68, a relevant sponsor for joining family members, in all possible categories, is either someone who is resident, has been resident in the UK before 31st December 2020, or is a naturalised British citizen.

In other words: someone who has never set foot in the UK cannot be the relevant sponsor, whatever their nationality.

The one exception for residency requirements are frontier workers, which is clearly not the case of the OP's brother:

Relevant sponsor

Where the date of application is after the specified date and before 1 July 2021, a relevant sponsor is either:

an EEA citizen (in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) of that definition in Annex 1 to Appendix EU) who, having been resident in the UK and Islands for a continuous qualifying period which began before the specified date, has been granted either:
indefinite leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU2 of Appendix EU (or under its equivalent in the Islands), which has not lapsed or been cancelled, revoked or invalidated (or is being granted that leave under that paragraph of Appendix EU or under its equivalent in the Islands) Page 68 of 184 Published for Home Office staff on 19 January 2021

limited leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU3 of Appendix EU (or under its equivalent in the Islands), which has not lapsed or been
cancelled, curtailed or invalidated (or is being granted that leave under that paragraph of Appendix EU or under its equivalent in the Islands)

an EEA citizen (in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) of that definition in Annex 1 to Appendix EU) either:
resident in the UK and Islands for a continuous qualifying period which began before the specified date

having been resident in the UK and Islands as described above, would be granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU2 of Appendix EU, if they made a valid application under Appendix EU before 1 July 2021

an EEA citizen (in accordance with sub-paragraph (b) of that definition in Annex 1 to Appendix EU): a relevant naturalised British citizen, in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) or (b), together with sub-paragraphs (c) and (d), of that definition in Annex 1

an EEA citizen (in accordance with sub-paragraph (d) of that definition in Annex 1 to Appendix EU): a relevant person of Northern Ireland, in accordance with that definition in Annex 1 to Appendix EU, either:
resident in the UK and Islands for a continuous qualifying period which began before the specified date

is an Irish citizen who, having been resident in the UK and Islands as described above, has been granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU2 of Appendix EU (or under its equivalent in the Islands), which has not lapsed or been cancelled, revoked or invalidated (or is being granted that leave under that paragraph of Appendix EU or under its equivalent in the Islands), or would be granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU2 of Appendix EU, if they made a valid application under this Appendix before 1 July 2021

who is a British citizen, or a British citizen and an Irish citizen, who, having been resident in the UK and Islands as described above, would, but for the fact that they are a British citizen, be granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU2 of Appendix EU, if they made a valid application under Appendix EU before 1 July 2021

a person exempt from immigration control either:
resident in the UK and Islands for a continuous qualifying period which began before the specified date

having been resident in the UK and Islands as described above, would, but for the fact that they are a person exempt from immigration control, be granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under paragraph EU2 of Appendix EU, if they made a valid application under Appendix EU before 1 July 2021

a frontier worker, in accordance with that definition in Annex 1 to Appendix EU

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:18 pm**

kamoe wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:48 pm

In other words: someone who has never set foot in the UK cannot be the relevant sponsor, whatever their nationality.

Thanks for the detailed response. Just to let you know that my brother was living here in UK till 2003 before moving to Ireland and got Ireland citizenship after few years. He had visited UK for couple of days around 2014 for work, as per my knowledge

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:39 pm**

laji wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:18 pm
Thanks for the detailed response. Just to let you know that my brother was living here in UK till 2003 before moving to Ireland and got Ireland citizenship after few years. He had visited UK for couple of days around 2014 for work, as per my knowledge

If he acquired Irish citizenship after his stay in the UK, it is irrelevant anyway as he would not have exercised treaty rights in the UK.

Even assuming that he resided in the UK after becoming an Irish citizen, and assuming that he resided in the UK for at least five continuous years, if he was absent from the UK for more than two consecutive years, he would have lost any claim to permanent residence in the UK under EU law that he may have had.

The only way for your brother to have sponsored your father to the UK would have been if your brother had moved to the UK after acquiring Irish citizenship and had started his residence before 31st December 2020.

Many immigration pathways shut on 31st December 2020. And any pathway for your father seems to be one of them.

If your brother is desperate to get his father to Europe (not to the UK), he needs to relocate to another EEA member-state and invite your father over to that EEA member-state under EU law. He needs to reside in that EEA member-state for at least five years for your father to acquire PR status in that country.

Alternatively, he needs to relocate to another EEA member-state and invite your father over to that EEA member-state under EU law. He should start exercising treaty rights in that other EEA member-state (working, seeking work, or being self-sufficient with private health insurance) and then once he had both (exercised treaty rights + your father living with him in that EEA member-state), he can then return to Ireland and apply for your father to join him in Ireland under the Surinder Singh route. That application would be under EU law and the whole process (from your brother moving to another EEA member-state to your father moving to Ireland under EU law) can take months. If you have any further questions about the suggestion in this paragraph, post them in the Ireland forum further down the main page.

I'll repeat again for the sake of simplicity; there is no pathway to bring your father to the UK under either UK law or the EU Settlement Scheme.

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