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Hi everyone, i need your help in applying for surinder Singh from France.
I am British, living in France for last three years. My wife has joined me here in France in March 2021 (married in 2018).
How long does she has to stay in France with me before applying for a Surinder Singh Route?

Is it necessary to obtain French resident permit before applying for an Surinder Singh?

What is the difference between applying SUrinder Singh before June2021 and applying after June 2021 till March 2022?

What are the requirements?

Briton wrote: ↑

Fri May 14, 2021 2:27 pm

My wife has joined me here in France in March 2021 (married in 2018).

I'm afraid the non-EU family member must have lived in the host EU state before January 1st 2021. Check here: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh

You must have lived with them in that country before 1 January 2021

There is a provision in this law that you are either living together in Europe before 1 January 2021 "OR" your relationship started before 01-01-2021.
That's why I mentioned the year of marriage.

•British nationals who formed a relationship with their family member (spouse, durable partner, child, dependent parent) before 31st January 2020 must return to the UK before 29th March 2022.

•British nationals who started their relationship their family member (spouse, durable partner, child, dependant parent) after 31st January 2020 must have returned to the UK and apply before 31st December 2020.

Briton wrote: ↑

Fri May 14, 2021 4:29 pm

There is a provision in this law that you are either living together in Europe before 1 January 2021 "OR" your relationship started before 01-01-2021.

First time I hear this, can you please share a link to your source?

The only information I can find is the requirement, black on white, of the non-EU family member having lived in the host country before 1st January 2020. That's both for EEA FP and EEUS FP.

If any other member with more experience on the matter has any insights, then I'll be curious to learn about this.

[edit]
*the non-EU family member having lived in the host country before 1st January 2021.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Fri May 14, 2021 10:20 pm

Briton wrote: ↑

Fri May 14, 2021 4:29 pm

There is a provision in this law that you are either living together in Europe before 1 January 2021 "OR" your relationship started before 01-01-2021.

First time I hear this, can you please share a link to your source?

The only information I can find is the requirement, black on white, of the non-EU family member having lived in the host country before 1st January 2020. That's both for EEA FP and EEUS FP.

If any other member with more experience on the matter has any insights, then I'll be curious to learn about this.

I don't think these two quotes are about the exact same issue. They are not mutually exclusive.

The Surinder Singh information that Kamoe quoted states that non-EEA spouses of British people who lived together in an EU country before 1st January 2021 are eligible to apply.

OP's quote seems to be about until when this type of application can be made.

As I understand it, one can be married before or after 31st January 2020 - and the application deadline may or may not be affected by this - but the non-EEA spouse still had to reside with the British spouse in the host country before 1st January 2021.

I couldn't find an official government source for the exact quotes OP posted - they do appear on a Lawyer's website - but I found this among the Brexit guidance for UK nationals in the EU:

"Your close family members will be able to join you in the UK and apply to the EU Settlement Scheme until 29 March 2022 as long as the relationship began before 31 December 2020."

Source: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-europe

I find it a bit sloppy by the UK government, not to put all related information in one place...

Again, you have to read carefully, but here it is:

"Returning from the EU

British citizens’ family members can apply for an EU Settlement Scheme family permit to come to the UK before 29 March 2022 (unless they have reasonable grounds for not returning to the UK before this date) if they’ve lived in an EU or EEA country or Switzerland with the eligible British citizen.

The family member must have lived with the British citizen in that country before 1 January 2021, and be:

their spouse, civil partner or unmarried partner
under 21 years old, and are their child or grandchild
21 years or older, and are their dependent child or grandchild
their dependent parent or grandparent
another dependent relative

This includes family members who were adopted under an adoption order that’s recognised in UK law. The country that they lived in together must have been their main residence. The British family member must also have been working, studying or self-sufficient in the country while there.

The relationship with the British citizen member must have existed before 1 February 2020 for the family member (excluding children born after this date) to be eligible to apply, unless they have reasonable grounds for not returning to the UK before 1 January 2021.

Once in the UK, the British citizens’ family members can apply for status under the EU Settlement Scheme.

Other family members and future spouses of UK nationals who are returning to the UK will need to apply for a family visa."

Source: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/returning-t ... -to-the-uk

ALKB wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 12:12 pm

I don't think these two quotes are about the exact same issue. They are not mutually exclusive.

The Surinder Singh information that Kamoe quoted states that non-EEA spouses of British people who lived together in an EU country before 1st January 2021 are eligible to apply.

OP's quote seems to be about until when this type of application can be made.

As I understand it, one can be married before or after 31st January 2020 - and the application deadline may or may not be affected by this - but the non-EEA spouse still had to reside with the British spouse in the host country before 1st January 2021.

There are two separate questions here, but they are not independent from each other:

1. Is there a deadline for when the non-EU family member needs to have been starting residing in the EU host country, if so, when?
2. What are the deadlines for applying.

The OPs is exclusively asking question no. 2, and I have not attempted to answer that.

The point of my comment is that given the OPs description of their situation, and the fact that their wife only joined them in the EU host state in March 2021, I fear they cannot apply, and they might first ask themselves question no. 1 before even wondering about question no. 2. That's all I'm saying.

I couldn't find an official government source for the exact quotes OP posted - they do appear on a Lawyer's website

I also found a solicitors website with similar information, but there is never a mention there that clearly spells out any provision to allow applications even if the non-EU did not live in the EU host state before January 1st 2021.

Hence why I am asking the OPs for the source.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 1:13 pm

The point of my comment is that given the OPs description of their situation, and the fact that their wife only joined them in the EU host state in March 2021, I fear they cannot apply, and they might first ask themselves question no. 1 before even wondering about question no. 2. That's all I'm saying.

Hence why I am asking the OPs for the source.

I completely agree!

I didn't mean to contradict you at all, I just tried to point out to OP that he might be mixing up two different matters.

Yes, I understood

Briton wrote: ↑

Fri May 14, 2021 4:29 pm

There is a provision in this law that you are either living together in Europe before 1 January 2021 "OR" your relationship started before 01-01-2021.
That's why I mentioned the year of marriage.

•British nationals who formed a relationship with their family member (spouse, durable partner, child, dependent parent) before 31st January 2020 must return to the UK before 29th March 2022.

•British nationals who started their relationship their family member (spouse, durable partner, child, dependant parent) after 31st January 2020 must have returned to the UK and apply before 31st December 2020.

I think the condition is likely an "AND", not an "OR".

I hate to sound like one of my professors, but one should look to the original text of the law, if at all possible.

And the original text of the law is the definition of "Family member of a qualifying British citizen" in the Annex 1 - Definitions of Appendix EU of the Immigration Rules.

There are three sub-sections of that definition, all three of which must be met (i.e. they are all linked by an "AND" condition).

While indeed subsection (a) refers to the marriage having been formed before the specified date (31st December 2020), subsection (b) - which is joined to subsection (a) by an AND, not an OR- also requires that the conditions of Regulation 9 of the EEA Regulations have been met before the specified date.

(b) they satisfied the conditions in regulation 9(2), (3) and (4)(a) of the EEA Regulations (as the family member (“F”) to whom those provisions refer) or, as the case may be, the conditions in regulation 9(1A)(b), (2), (3) and (4)(a) of the EEA Regulations (as the extended family member (“EFM”) to whom those provisions refer), in either case doing so:
(i) before the specified date; and
(ii) (...) immediately before returning to the UK with the qualifying British citizen (who is to be treated as the British citizen (“BC”) to whom those provisions refer); and

So, for an application for the Surinder Singh route to be made under the EU Settled Status route, the conditions of Regulation 9 of the EEA Regulations 2016 still need to have been met before 31st December 2020.

Regulation 9(2)(b) states "F and BC resided together in the EEA State; and" (F being the family member and BC being the British citizen).

So, by extension, there is a requirement in the EU Settled Status scheme for a Surinder Singh spouse applicant to have (a) formed a marriage with and (b) lived with the British citizen in the EEA member-state before 31st December 2020.

Again, it is an "AND" condition, not an "OR" condition.

Thank you very much all of you guys. I appreciate your time. You all helped a lot.
Do you think I should consult a lawyer or not?

Briton wrote: ↑

Sun May 16, 2021 11:24 pm

Do you think I should consult a lawyer or not?

If someone does not meet the criteria to apply for a given immigration route, seeing a solicitor won't change that. A reputable solicitor will tell you the exact same thing we already told you.

It looks like you need to explore the regular family member route for British citizens and their families... which any solicitor will also tell you. That will be outside the EU routes, and you can address any questions for this route here.

You are of course free to require a solicitor's help to prepare your application, if you feel you cannot do it yourself and want to pay their fee. That is entirely up to you.

Briton wrote: ↑

Sun May 16, 2021 11:24 pm

Do you think I should consult a lawyer or not?

If you do choose to consult a lawyer, can you ask him to have a look at this thread and let us know what points he disagrees on if he disagrees with any points in this thread.