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Hi.

I need some help here and see if anyone can share their experience or info because I just got a refusal letter (see letter attached in this post) from Home Office (HO) the second time. I made the first and second applications by myself without go through any lawyer. The first refusal letter came from UKVI Liverpool via email and the second refusal letter came from the UKVI India via email.

I applied for EEA Family Permit for my brother, sister-in-law and their sons (both under 18). The first time I applied. HO refused it and stated that they do not know my brother finance and some period I specified in the application for supporting them that I cannot show proof like bank statements or money transfer. I did not appeal it.

First thing I would like to know, is the EEA Family Permit route for extended family member officially finished after the 31 December 2020? Can I resubmit another application before 30 June 2021?
I resubmitted the application (the second one) with some of the missing money transfers and some auditor report for my brother company finance (which he was losing money most of the years) with the application in reference with the first application. I was hoping that I address the issues HO listed in the first refusal letter. Here are the questions about the letter.

1. I made a mistake that I forgot to attach a payslip or bank statement. In the first application, I attached couple of payslips. I am still working for the same employer (I have the same employers for past 2.5 years and still working for them). If I appeal this application. I included a copy of my passport and copy of my pre-settlement permit from HO. Will Tribunal accept that I forgot to attached the payslips.

2. I got four refusal letters. One for my brother, one for my in law and one for each of my nephews. The attached letter is the refusal letter for my sister-in-law. The first refusal letter didn’t mentioned I didn’t submit her marriage certificate or credible evidence to demonstrate she is married to my brother. I do not have a birth certificate. In order to proof my brother is related to me. I did submitted a copy of official record (not marriage certificate but an official register from the Hong Kong government showing that my brother parents (same as mine), his children and who and when he married to. The register was date April 2020. I submitted the register for first and second application to show that my in-law is married to my brother. Did HO just simply ignore the official register from Hong Kong Government?

3. I did sent money to help out my brother over the years. I made it clear to HO that my brother made some mistake along. HO did mentioned that the missing period money transfer between 2012 to 2015. I sent a copy of email I obtained from NATWEST to show that I transferred money regularly to my brother between 2012 to 2015. HO simply saying now money transfer is not enough. My brother was living with his wife and two kids before 2015. I went back to London for 6 months in university in 2015. I asked my brother to move back in with my mother because my mother is above 70 years old and I don’t want her to live by herself so my brother, his wife and two kids moved back in to live with my mother for 6 months until I came back from London. Since then they stayed in the same apartment with my mother and myself until 2019 when I moved back to UK here. I provided money for apartment expenses and we all lived as a family unit before I came back. I did transferred money to my brother to pay for the day to day expenses and I have all the bank statements to proof it as well. I know HO guildline stating that bank statements or money transfer can be a proof as providing support. In the second refusal letter stating that HO will need to see the transfer of money for a long period of time. I came up with all the bank transfer from 2010 to 2015. I was living with them and my mother from 2015 to 2019 before I came back here. I can provide all the money transfer and bank statements as well but I didn’t include all the statements in the second application because my brother has all the statements with him in Hong Kong.

I might not have included all the bank statements and money transfers after 2015. I did mentioned in the letter in the second application that my mother which still in Hong Kong has been granted EU Settlment Family Permit to join me here. Unfortunately, my second elder brother died last May, and my elder brother (the applicant here) has diagnoses with cancer in last July. He went through a major surgery and I provided my brother cancer surgery hospital record and my other brother death certificate to HO as well in the second application. I did ask HO to consider my brother and his family application because my mother is elderly and just lost a son. I am living in UK by myself and due to Covid is making it worst. I know HO might say that I can move back to Hong Kong to stay with them or stay in UK and continue to provide support for them (which HO did not say in the the first or second refusal letter). I also did mentioned in my brother application that it is not safe for me to move back to Hong Kong because it became a police state and HO has travel warning to Hong Kong as well. The economy is doing badly in Hong Kong and I might not even get a job there. Also, it became a police state. May be I have EU citizenship, but because of my skin color, the Chinese government announced that regardless citizenship of a person, as long as they look Chinese and within Hong Kong, they will be treated as Chinese citizen. I did mentioned it is not safe for me to move back and I guess they ignore all the safety issue I would have if I move back to Hong Kong.

4. I would like to know if I file an appeal and provide all the bank statements and plead to the Tribunal with all the stuff I have mentioned here. Would I even stand a chance for HO to look at the application again?

5. Also, it said the fees is 80 pounds without hearing and 140 pounds with hearing for the appeal. If lost an appeal, other than the 140 pounds I have to pay, will tribunal ask me to pay for the HO lawyer fees or other court fees at all?

6. If I choose appeal via hearing, I am near Glasgow, will they have Tribunal in Scotland or all the immigration Tribunal is in England and I have to travel there?

7. They said I have to appeal in 28 days. Is that 28 working days or 28 days (including weekend)?

8. Since the EEA Family Permit route is closed. Is there any other way my brother and his family can apply to join myself and my mother in UK?


Guys. If I don’t appeal my brother’s application. I cannot submit another application since the EEA Family Permit is closed for extended family member. I know it is a long post but I don’t have much time. I really appreciate this If anyone can share some of their knowledge to answer my questions above.

Hi I suggest appeal and in time! Follow step by step reason they refused you and provide evidence for each of the reasons.
It makes sense why your brother dependent on you. He’s not well and can’t work.

EEA route closed now so make most of this last opportunity. I really wish you well. Don’t give up. Fight back every single point but must provide evidence for every point you fight back as much as possible. Hopefully someone can review case because cancer is difficult and your brother needs your help.

Good luck!

seekingadvice87 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:25 pm

EEA route closed now so make most of this last opportunity.

The EEA route is still open to 31 countries in Europe; 30 EEA countries and Switzerland.

Hello

Sending money is not a proof of dependency. You sent a money to an adult, maybe you have a business together or something. It's doesn't mean that money is for his basic needs.

It would have helped if you provided a full documented picture of his financial situation.

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

is the EEA Family Permit route for extended family member officially finished after the 31 December 2020?

Yes

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

Can I resubmit another application before 30 June 2021?

No. That route is closed. You can appeal the decision, but you can't file a new EFM application any more.

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

2. I got four refusal letters. One for my brother, one for my in law and one for each of my nephews. The attached letter is the refusal letter for my sister-in-law. The first refusal letter didn’t mentioned I didn’t submit her marriage certificate or credible evidence to demonstrate she is married to my brother. I do not have a birth certificate. In order to proof my brother is related to me. I did submitted a copy of official record (not marriage certificate but an official register from the Hong Kong government showing that my brother parents (same as mine), his children and who and when he married to. The register was date April 2020. I submitted the register for first and second application to show that my in-law is married to my brother. Did HO just simply ignore the official register from Hong Kong Government?

Can you tell us what this documentation is called as quick Google searching does not seem to show any documentation that fits your description?

Be aware that the Home Office does not always accept evidence that has been generated years after the birth/marriage taking place. Generally any record dated later than one year after the birth of the person will likely not be accepted. I'll see if I can find the Home Office documentation on that.

EDIT: I found this link on the Gov.HK site. Is this what you had in mind? Or is it a document more like a hukou in Mainland China? Wikipedia suggests that neither Chinese SAR do not issue such documents.

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

7. They said I have to appeal in 28 days. Is that 28 working days or 28 days (including weekend)?

If they don't state "working days", it means calendar days. So essentially you have four weeks from the date of the rejection letter to appeal.

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

8. Since the EEA Family Permit route is closed. Is there any other way my brother and his family can apply to join myself and my mother in UK?

Do any of them have BNO passports?

And keep in mind that the EEA EFM applications are under the EEA Regulations, which require proof that the EEA citizen sponsor is either a Qualified Person (working, seeking work, studying with private health insurance or self-sufficient with private health insurance) or has acquired PR under the EEA Regulations. Mere Pre-settled Status under Appendix EU may not be enough. From the letter, it does not look like you provided proof of the same.

JB007 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:36 pm

seekingadvice87 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:25 pm

EEA route closed now so make most of this last opportunity.

The EEA route is still open to 31 countries in Europe; 30 EEA countries and Switzerland.

Is it closed only for Norway?

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

8. Since the EEA Family Permit route is closed. Is there any other way my brother and his family can apply to join myself and my mother in UK?

Do any of them have BNO passports?

And keep in mind that the EEA EFM applications are under the EEA Regulations, which require proof that the EEA citizen sponsor is either a Qualified Person (working, seeking work, studying with private health insurance or self-sufficient with private health insurance) or has acquired PR under the EEA Regulations. Mere Pre-settled Status under Appendix EU may not be enough. From the letter, it does not look like you provided proof of the same.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, him and his wife do not have BNO passport.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:16 pm

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:56 am

2. I got four refusal letters. One for my brother, one for my in law and one for each of my nephews. The attached letter is the refusal letter for my sister-in-law. The first refusal letter didn’t mentioned I didn’t submit her marriage certificate or credible evidence to demonstrate she is married to my brother. I do not have a birth certificate. In order to proof my brother is related to me. I did submitted a copy of official record (not marriage certificate but an official register from the Hong Kong government showing that my brother parents (same as mine), his children and who and when he married to. The register was date April 2020. I submitted the register for first and second application to show that my in-law is married to my brother. Did HO just simply ignore the official register from Hong Kong Government?

Can you tell us what this documentation is called as quick Google searching does not seem to show any documentation that fits your description?

Be aware that the Home Office does not always accept evidence that has been generated years after the birth/marriage taking place. Generally any record dated later than one year after the birth of the person will likely not be accepted. I'll see if I can find the Home Office documentation on that.

EDIT: I found this link on the Gov.HK site. Is this what you had in mind? Or is it a document more like a hukou in Mainland China? Wikipedia suggests that neither Chinese SAR do not issue such documents.





And keep in mind that the EEA EFM applications are under the EEA Regulations, which require proof that the EEA citizen sponsor is either a Qualified Person (working, seeking work, studying with private health insurance or self-sufficient with private health insurance) or has acquired PR under the EEA Regulations. Mere Pre-settled Status under Appendix EU may not be enough. From the letter, it does not look like you provided proof of the same.

This is the document I referred to ----> https://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/hk ... _cert.html

My brother and myself were not born in Hong Kong so we have no birth certificates. The certificate of registered particulars Hong Kong contained family information such as parents, dependent child and spouse. The one I submit was recent enough (April 2020) because I submitted the second EFM application in October 2020.

Also, I submitted my payslips and bank statements in the first application. I referred the first application in my second application. In the second refusal letter said that I didnt submit the proof that I am a qualified person. I know I should have attach some payslips or bank statements again in the second application. I made a mistake on this one. Can Home Office use this to reject on my appeal all together solely under this, even if I can submit payslips and bankstatements to cover all the periods I did not submit for the appeal????

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:00 pm

My brother and myself were not born in Hong Kong so we have no birth certificates.

You may not have HK birth certificates, but surely you must have birth certificates from whichever country you were born in issued soon after you were born.

I doubt that the UK authorities will accept documents issued years after the fact (of the birth/family relationship being formed). They are even less likely to accept "proof of a family relationship" documentation issued by a jurisdiction where neither your brother nor you were born (i.e.where the family was created).

You may very well have to take it through the UK courts and even then I am not sure they will agree with you on this point, which is quite central to your application.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:51 pm

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:00 pm

My brother and myself were not born in Hong Kong so we have no birth certificates.

You may not have HK birth certificates, but surely you must have birth certificates from whichever country you were born in issued soon after you were born.

I doubt that the UK authorities will accept documents issued years after the fact (of the birth/family relationship being formed). They are even less likely to accept "proof of a family relationship" documentation issued by a jurisdiction where neither your brother nor you were born (i.e.where the family was created).

You may very well have to take it through the UK courts and even then I am not sure they will agree with you on this point, which is quite central to your application.

Hi

Thank you for your message. I was born in PRC in a hospital that is not exist anymore. My birth cert is a handwritten booklet looks more like a scrap paper. All the hospitals were own by the states when I was born. about 15 years ago. I need to have my birth cert from PRC to be translated to apply for residency in one of the commonwealth country. I took my birth cert to the Chinese Embassy in Ireland. The Chinese Embassy told me that they do not do any translation or certification or notary for my birth cert. I ended up apply for the same (certification I mentioned in this post from Hong Kong government) paper to use in my residency application. The commonwealth country I was applied for accepted the paper. This is sad that my own country doesnt even recognized their own birth certificate, I am abit off topic here but I hope people try not to trust too much on what they say in the news about how powerful my former country!

To be honest, I know it is hard to prove dependency and I know it is hard to have the court to listen to me, but I am gathering document and trying to show in the appeal process. Hey, the appeal without hearing cost 240 pounds (360 pounds with hearing) for 4 people. I know the chance is slim. At least if I lost, I wont need to pay for the cost of the court lol. I wonder if I should only have the appeal via paper or should I have the appeal with a hearing instead. You have any idea if appeal with hearing would give me any more advantage instead of only paper appeal?

Thanks again for your message tho.

Hi,

Does anyone knows if I go for an appeal and lost, will my brother, sister-in-law and nephews be barred from apply for any UK family, student or other type of family visa for good?

Thanks.

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:53 am

Hi,

Does anyone knows if I go for an appeal and lost, will my brother, sister-in-law and nephews be barred from apply for any UK family, student or other type of family visa for good?

Thanks.

No, not barred. They can still apply but student visas will be scrutinised based on the previous intentions to immigrate (not because of appeal but because of applications themselves). UK Family Routes are close to non-existing when it comes to extended family and adults

Hi, what is the last day to enter the UK if you have been granted EA Family Permit. As it says that EEA Family permit will become invalid after 30th of June.

Hi dkbeam,

Please can I ask what date u made an application.

rickyy wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:06 am

Hi dkbeam,

Please can I ask what date u made an application.

I made the application in October 2020.

Hi,

My brother, sister-in-law and two nephews applied for the EEA family in Nov 2020, but got refusal letter in March 2021. They didn't apply for appeal. Can any tell me, under the new arrangement, can they apply for EUSS or not? Thanks.

Hi,

My original post was sometime ago regarding to the EEA family permit refusal for my brother, sister-in-law and nephews (eea-route-applications/euss-for-extende ... 23867.html). I know there are some new arrangement for the EEA family permit came in force in November this year.

Under the new arrangement from the Home Office, I would like to know if Home Office will allow people with EEA family permit application had been refused before? Anyone can share abit the information? Thanks.

Not all of us are aware of the "new arrangement for the EEA family permit came in force in November this year.".

Can you elaborate or link to the source of this information?

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:31 pm

Not all of us are aware of the "new arrangement for the EEA family permit came in force in November this year.".

Can you elaborate or link to the source of this information?

Hi,

Here is the document """""https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ermits.pdf""""

I think I read it wrong and only for certain people and doesnt apply in my case.

dkbeam wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:56 pm

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:31 pm

Not all of us are aware of the "new arrangement for the EEA family permit came in force in November this year.".

Can you elaborate or link to the source of this information?

Hi,

Here is the document """""https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ermits.pdf""""

I think I read it wrong and only for certain people and doesnt apply in my case.

It does not since this applies to people who either were granted a EEA Family Permit or would have been granted a EEA Family permit save for the fact that EEA Family Permits are no longer issued. Your family members got their application refused, so no, it does not apply to them.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:46 pm

It does not since this applies to people who either were granted a EEA Family Permit or would have been granted a EEA Family permit save for the fact that EEA Family Permits are no longer issued. Your family members got their application refused, so no, it does not apply to them.

To clarify a bit more, the bottomline of the November 2021 provision is to create a way in for people left in limbo as the extended family member holder of a EEA Family permit which expired in 2021, and still outside of the UK because of covid.

The explanation on the aforementioned document reads Arrangements after 30 June 2021 (page 11):

Subject to the guidance in this section, we are obliged to issue a product to all those whose EEA family permit application was successful, including on appeal, even though the route closed on 30 June 2021.

Which means, the only way this could have applied to your family members is if they had lodged an appeal within their allowed deadline (But seems like an appeal was not the route for them anyways because documents were missing from original application, so the appeal would have been lost).