Changing passports (expiring) - Can I use old Residents Card

flann · Post by **flann** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:12 am

Hi there. My wife has a Thai passport that is due to expire in 6 months. She will need to replace it (The Thai embassy wont extend the end date again). She received a Residents Card in the UK last year. What can she do?

1. Can she continue to travel on her old Residents Card (i.e. carry both her old expired Thai passport containing the Residents Card and her new Thai Passport or
2. Does she need to get a new Residents Card?

We are due to travel to Poland in about 6 months and dont want to have lots of hassle.

I spoke with the Home Office/UKBA and the guy in the call centre was a bit vague, implying that we should be able to do (1) above but said that if we want to move the Residents Card into her new Passport, we have to go through all the EEA2 application process again! I would have thought they would have had a more simple process for moving Residents Cards in this scenario where Passports are lost or replaced.

Ta

Flann.

Lilly · Post by **Lilly** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:45 am

While I had my family permit (the 5 yrs valid one) I used to travel with my two passports, one with the visa and the other which was valid.

<Edited to remove wrong link>

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:48 am

Lilly wrote:Also check this website
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/while ... -passport/

Wrong web page obviously, here is the correct one: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... n/#header4

Lilly · Post by **Lilly** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:51 am

Sorry 86ti

But I understood his wife already got the card, is her passport that is expiring. Its not like her passport is being hold or anything.

So I think the link I sent was right. Yours is to be used in case she was waiting her passport to be sent back?

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:01 pm

Have you seen 'Transfer of residence card or stamp' at the bottom of the page? The page you referred to is obviously irrelevant in this case because a residence card is neither a visa nor a permit.

Lilly · Post by **Lilly** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:04 pm

I don't want to get into an argument but If you read the last line of my quote from the site they clearly say you don't have to transfer your residence permit to the new passport.

And your bit from your website says If you want to transfer to do so. Is not like you have to do it. Is only in case you don't want to carry two passports with you.

As I said, I used to travel with the two passports myself and never had any problems with it.

virtual-writer · Post by **virtual-writer** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:50 pm

flann wrote:if we want to move the Residents Card into her new Passport, we have to go through all the EEA2 application process again! I would have thought they would have had a more simple process for moving Residents Cards in this scenario where Passports are lost or replaced

They don't! It's madness, I'm in the same boat as you, only we have permanent residence, we sent a NTL application, but they are counting it as an EEA4 application!

They want us to apply for permanent residence even though we already have it!

And to make it even more complicated, they gave my husband an ILR stamp instead of the sticker as they should have done.

The problem with traveling with two passports is that the UKBA advice against it, and even our solicitor. I've also read on these boards that it's not recommended, you may get problems at check-point.

virtual-writer · Post by **virtual-writer** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:56 pm

NTL is not applicable in cases of residence cards.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:14 pm

Lilly wrote:I don't want to get into an argument but If you read the last line of my quote from the site they clearly say you don't have to transfer your residence permit to the new passport.

Is it really so difficult to understand that a residence card is not a residence permit? The information on the web page you have cited does not apply (and may be confusing to a residence card holder), even if the regulations regarding a transfer are similar (they could be different).

Lilly · Post by **Lilly** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:24 pm

Well for me they were the same thing (they do say the residence card is equivalent to ILR) but ok I see your point and will remove my link not to mislead people. I see now EUs are not included on NTL process.

But they still say if you want to there is nothing to say you have to do it.

I suppose is whoever's concern call.

I will never NEVER EVER go through the EEA4 process again unless they explicitely tell me so, even more because I have travelled with two passports and as I said not a big deal at all.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:29 pm

The reason a Residence Card is called a Residence Card and not a Residence Permit is because no permission is sought nor required in order for a Residence Card to be issued.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:35 pm

... and they are governed by two separate and fundamentally different pieces of law.

DFDS. · Post by **DFDS.** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:38 pm

virtual-writer wrote:
flann wrote:if we want to move the Residents Card into her new Passport, we have to go through all the EEA2 application process again! I would have thought they would have had a more simple process for moving Residents Cards in this scenario where Passports are lost or replaced
They don't! It's madness, I'm in the same boat as you, only we have permanent residence, we sent a NTL application, but they are counting it as an EEA4 application!

They want us to apply for permanent residence even though we already have it!

And to make it even more complicated, they gave my husband an ILR stamp instead of the sticker as they should have done.

The problem with traveling with two passports is that the UKBA advice against it, and even our solicitor. I've also read on these boards that it's not recommended, you may get problems at check-point.

Ask any frequent travelers, they will tell you! there is no problem travelling with both passports as long as its the same issuing authority. If your valid Visa is in your old passport, you can attach both passport and Roll. Issue is there are lots of assumptions on the board, and also some of UKBA staff have got a culture of intimidating travelers. With UKBA you got to be very strong specially if you come from out side the EU. I've travelled with two attached passports for along time and it has never raised any suspicions.

virtual-writer · Post by **virtual-writer** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:33 am

Thank you for your reply DFDS, I appreciate it.

But I have another problem, my husband has an ILR stamp, not the PR card sticker (UKBAs mistake).

So how would he exercise his right of free movement in Europe under the Directive?

If you have any ideas, I'd appreciate it, but maybe we should move such a discussion to the right topic, so as not to high-jack other peoples threads.

flann · Post by **flann** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:58 pm

Just to let you know, I have written to the Home Office today asking them for a formal letter advising that I am allowed (or not) to keep the valid Residents Permit in the old passport. If they give me a letter, I will scan it in and post on this forum. At least that will give us some level of comfort when approaching the desks at heathrow (not much use to me on arrival in other European countries)!

cheers,

Flann

virtual-writer · Post by **virtual-writer** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:54 am

Flann, does your wife have a Resident's card or permit?

They are not the same and don't come under the same rules, so it's important to keep them apart

If it's a resident's card, which is given to family members of EU-nationals, then you shouldn't have any problems crossing borders in Europe. You can have a look at this thread for re-assurance.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:36 pm

virtual-writer wrote:Flann, does your wife have a Resident's card or permit?

They are not the same and don't come under the same rules, so it's important to keep them apart

I think we've discussed this in this very thread already...

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Changing passports (expiring) - Can I use old Residents Card

Changing passports (expiring) - Can I use old Residents Card

Re: Changing passports (expiring) - Can I use old Residents

Re: Changing passports (expiring) - Can I use old Residents

Thank you all for the responses