Immigrationboards.com

Good Morning,

First off, I would like to say that I am so very happy to have found this forum just recently. Thanks to everyone for all the helpful pieces of information!

I have read many posts with people in similar situation but mine (as usual) is rather different, so please bare with me and I do really hope someone can point me in the right direction.

I will try to make it short:
a) am a wife (US citizen) of a German national, both of us working full time and living here for over a year now
b) In mid January I have received the EEA 5-year residency card stamped in my passport.
c) Was living happily ever after, until I had to send my US passport to a bank as proof of i.d. mid June. They have received it. But it has now been LOST on its way back to me, officially declared so yesterday.

We have got a trip planned to Berlin on the 29th, so in a week. I cannot reschedule it. I can't describe to you the sleepless nights and the stressful days I have had this week, dealing with the bank and the Royal mail. I would like to see if I can fly with him to Berlin and come back semi-smoothly in to the Uk (coming back August 2nd).

I am due for a passport appointment in the US consulate in London Tuesday, where I was told I can be issued an emergency travel passport. As I am a non-visa national, I should be allowed by the airline to board, right? Germany should let me in also relatively problem-free.

If we arm ourselves with our marriage certificate, copy of old passport, work contracts, council tax papers and flat leases, as well as copies of pertinent legal support, surely they cannot turn me away at the border on Aug 2nd?! I also have the cover letter with me which came together with my EEA residence card in January, stating I can live an work in the Uk, so surely that can be very helpful and they must be able to see it in their system?

We are in Berlin for only 4 days, and I will be on an emergency passport, so I do not have the option to apply for the 6 month EEA permit from there.
I have found a legal precedent online which seems to support my case. This is the EU Court ruling from 2002, Case of Mrax vs. Belgium

"a Member State maynot send back at the border a third country national who ismarried to a national of a Member State and attempts to enterits territory without being in possession of a valid identity card
or passport or, if necessary, a visa, where he is able to prove his
identity and the conjugal ties and there is no evidence to
establish that he represents a risk to the requirements of public
policy, public security or public health within the meaning of
Article 10 of Directive 68/360 and Article 8 of Directive 73/"

Sorry this is slightly long

I would be so grateful for your thoughts and advice!!
Thanks in advance

If we arm ourselves with our marriage certificate, copy of old passport, work contracts, council tax papers and flat leases, as well as copies of pertinent legal support, surely they cannot turn me away at the border on Aug 2nd?! I also have the cover letter with me which came together with my EEA residence card in January, stating I can live an work in the Uk, so surely that can be very helpful and they must be able to see it in their system?

The most important thing is to arm yourself with patience. You should be fine. You might need to explain the situation to IO at the border and he might need to consult a senior IO but as you are "in the system" and are travelling with your EU partner, that should be OK.
With regards to the airline, it depends. I know that easyJet some times look for a valid immigration visa/permit on the outbound flight if you got a return ticket (i.e. in the UK, they check that you are allowed back in when you return) so you should be prepared to explain your situation a few times.

Thanks for the prompt reply. That's pretty much what I am thinking. We are flying with Lufthansa/BMI flight, but as I am a US-citizen, so initially non-visa to UK, I was under the impression that at least there I should not have a problem.

They shouldn’t be stopping you on border anywhere as long as you have US Passport. I don’t know how long an emergency passport is valid till? But if its valid for couple of months then you can leave the UK but take your marrige certificate and copy of your old EEA4 card and a police receipt if you had told them about lost passport or any proof that your passport is lost. In worse case if they suspect anything then they will make you sit while they will check your record with HO. But do keep your NI,Payslips and job contract with you. By law they should allow you in the country as you are legal. I hope everything will go smooth. when you are back then you can resend all your documents to HO for a new EEA2.

i am bit confuse here

according to http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/doineedvisa/


USA citizen don;t need a visa if he is coming as a tourist but if he is joing a family in the UK then he needs a visa.

But I still think there won't be any problem to our US friend to come back to the country just it might be bit delay on UK Border but they will understand everything as they can check on their PC about her eea status.

Hi Punjab,

I know it is a bit confusing. But I am no longer legally of a tourist status, as I negated that allowance having applied for a EEA family permit and the subsequent EEA RC, as well as having taken up residency and a job in London. So if I were to simply walk up to the IO on the 2nd and pretend I was just a tourist coming into UK for a bit, then I would be in deep trouble!

sevenseas wrote:Hi Punjab,

I know it is a bit confusing. But I am no longer legally of a tourist status, as I negated that allowance having applied for a EEA family permit and the subsequent EEA RC, as well as having taken up residency and a job in London. So if I were to simply walk up to the IO on the 2nd and pretend I was just a tourist coming into UK for a bit, then I would be in deep trouble!

yes you are right that you will be in trouble. I just found this link

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/while ... edocument/


Other thing which I can think of is to write letter to HO telling them your departure and coming back then they will or can send you a letter.

But it will be really easier for you to apply for a family permitt or relevant document or enetery clearence visa from UK embassy in London as they can give it to you on the same day if they havent change this way yet.

I remeber I went to UK Embassy in Budapest at 10 am and then a man came to us ask just one question and asked us to come at 4 pm and collect the passport. this was in 2006. i really hope you can have same quick service on same day or couple of days.

Punjab wrote: if he is joing a family in the UK then he needs a visa.

This is for joining a British spouse (UK immigration laws) not EEA route.

I would think Jambo's advice is quite sound. There is not much to add and you seem to understand your situation quite well.

Punjab wrote:I just found this link

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/while ... edocument/

Punjab,

This link is for Home Office travel document issued for people who do not have a passport. Not relevant in this case.

Tell UK Immigration Officer that you want right of admission under 11(4).

vinny wrote:Tell UK Immigration Officer that you want right of admission under 11(4).

she will need an EEA family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card.

Jambo wrote:

Punjab wrote:I just found this link

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/while ... edocument/

Punjab,

This link is for Home Office travel document issued for people who do not have a passport. Not relevant in this case.

thanks Jambo

Punjab wrote:

vinny wrote:Tell UK Immigration Officer that you want right of admission under 11(4).

she will need an EEA family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card.

You may find it helpful to read 11(4).

It would also be helpful if Punjab stopped posting random links and random pieces of information that he or she doesn't understand.

Punjab wrote:

vinny wrote:Tell UK Immigration Officer that you want right of admission under 11(4).

she will need an EEA family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card.

Hi, from the same link that Vinny gave, I am still not necessarily going to be refused entry even without RC or Permit due to below:

(4) Before an immigration officer refuses admission to the United Kingdom to a person under this regulation because the person does not produce on arrival a document mentioned in paragraph (1) or (2), the immigration officer must give the person every reasonable opportunity to obtain the document or have it brought to him within a reasonable period of time or to prove by other means that he is—

(a)an EEA national;

(b)a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him in the United Kingdom; or

(c)a family member who has retained the right of residence or a person with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15.

(5) But this regulation is subject to regulations 19(1) and (2).

I also DO have a valid RC, it is just in the lost passport, but it is definitely valid and not cancelled. Should that not be in their "books"?
The US has the right to cancel the lost passport when it issues me a new one, but it has no legal right to cancel another country's official document, the RC (I assume it's the same if your passport expires, you get a new one, but the permit/visa in the old one is still valid, so one can carry both passports)

sevenseas wrote:Hi, from the same link that Vinny gave, I am still not necessarily going to be refused entry even without RC or Permit

Exactly. You will also find similar information in the IDIs, chapter 7, section 3, point 5. The border force operations manual should have the same but it is still being updated (for well over a year now I think). Should you encounter an "unreasonable" IO note their ID number on their shoulders and ask for the Chief Immigration Officer.

Will you have a police report of the lost passport?

sevenseas wrote:Should that not be in their "books"?

Not sure how reliable and up to date the UKBA's computer systems are. If possible, carry with you proof that you satisfy the requirements.

86ti wrote:It would also be helpful if Punjab stopped posting random links and random pieces of information that he or she doesn't understand.

at least i am trying. i might be wrong but i know one way which won't work.

Punjab wrote:

86ti wrote:It would also be helpful if Punjab stopped posting random links and random pieces of information that he or she doesn't understand.

at least i am trying. i might be wrong but i know one way which won't work.

I have to disagree with you. That is not trying; you are not doing any poster any good by posting incorrect information. You should know how they might feel when you post something that is not true which may affect them emotionally

koded wrote:

Punjab wrote:

86ti wrote:It would also be helpful if Punjab stopped posting random links and random pieces of information that he or she doesn't understand.

at least i am trying. i might be wrong but i know one way which won't work.

I have to disagree with you. That is not trying; you are not doing any poster any good by posting incorrect information. You should know how they might feel when you post something that is not true which may affect them emotionally

I think you should have no problems. The Residence Card is purely optional to have and having it or not having it does not change your status in the UK. And UKBA can look up in their little computers and see that you have one!

You should carry with you:
(1) A photocopy of your old US passport information page
(2) A photocopy of your old UK issued Residence Card
(3) wife's passport or ID card
(4) marriage certificate
(5) One of your wife's recent pay slips (totally unimportant whether you are working or not)

You should repeatedly identify yourself as the family member of an EU citizen if you have any problems at the border.

They should not give you any problems at the border. If they give you any problems, ask to speak to a supervisor, and then their supervisor.

You could even enter the UK without a valid passport since you are the spouse of an EU citizen: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

Since you are traveling with your wife, this will be a easy roll in the hay. No problem. Easy peasy. Very straight forward. Simple. Like going to sleep on a quiet nice with a nice breeze.

Directive/2004/38/EC

I have a question that i need to confirm...

I am married to a british national, i have a british daughter, i have a limited leave to remain in uk, My wife, daughter and i were looking to go to france for two weeks.

Can i travel without a visa to france, and at the french border show my passport, marriage certificate and daughters birth certificate(will i be issued entry clearance under eu law?)

leonex4t5 wrote:Directive/2004/38/EC

I have a question that i need to confirm...

I am married to a british national, i have a british daughter, i have a limited leave to remain in uk, My wife, daughter and i were looking to go to france for two weeks.

Can i travel without a visa to france, and at the french border show my passport, marriage certificate and daughters birth certificate(will i be issued entry clearance under eu law?)

There is no way I can confirm or guarantee or even recommend this to you.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ describes what you would need to do, but also points out that there are no guarantees in life.

And all bets are off if you are flying to France, because if the airline does not allow you on the plane than you are unlikely to ever meet a French border guard to even try. For this to be possible, you need to take a ferry or train to France.

If I were to try doing this, I personally would book a same day return ferry ticket to Calais. Go over in the morning, and come back that day. If you get turned back before boarding the ferry, then you make it a day in Bornemouth! This would give me personal experience of trying this and seeing how it goes.

But do not bet the happiness of your vacation on what I say or would do!

See also Visa for family of an European national.

Daughter's birth certificate is probably insufficient. She will probably require a national passport or official travel document.

Why take the risk of refusal at the borders?