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I am myslef an Irish citizens currently employed/self-employed in the UK. I have recently applied for a EEA card. I want to bring my relatives to the UK (mother, father and a granda). Idea is to arrange a suitable care for the granda and for parents to work/live/etc.

However, my mother, prior to her current marriage, has been living in the UK as an asylum/failed asylum seeker. During this time she was employed, NOT in receipt of benefits and I lived with her in the same household. This is confirmed documentally, i.e. landlord statements, etc. Then she went away back home and returned later, once again, we lived in the same household. Once again, it is documented by a tenancy agreement. Then, due to ill-health, she returned back home for treatment, got married, assumed care of my granda, etc.

Now, both my mother and my step-father are unemployed and the only sources of income are (a) my grandas pension and (b) rent payments that I receive from letting my flat that I share with them. They also tap into my local bank account and this could be verified on the statements. Also, I gave 50% of the propoerty rights on my flat to my mother. There are deed-books for that to verify.

In the light of the above, I want to submit an application for them to join me in the uk. I want to argue that I lived with my mother in the same household in the past for a total of 6 years (4 and 2 respectively), the only incomes are part provided by me. I am not clear, however,

1. where do I submit an application? Do I need to submit an EEA application here in the UK or will it be submitted as a visa application through a high-commission? Will there be application fees? If I submit here, I assume I need all orginal documentation, including passports, here???

2. From your relevant experience, how can I strenghten my case, in terms of documentation required and other suttle ways that make/break the application?

Thank you

someone please?! Advise will be great!

If the family members are presently outside the UK, then they will first need to submit a visa (EEA Family Permit) application.

"other family members" are described http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ficiaries/

It sounds like you have lived with your mom for quite a while in the UK. I think that she would count, though this area is far from clear to me. It is definitely worth trying.

If you want to bring them all to the UK at the same time, then you probably want to do the applications all at once.

On what basis do think you can bring the others to the UK?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:If the family members are presently outside the UK, then they will first need to submit a visa (EEA Family Permit) application.

"other family members" are described http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ficiaries/

It sounds like you have lived with your mom for quite a while in the UK. I think that she would count, though this area is far from clear to me. It is definitely worth trying.

If you want to bring them all to the UK at the same time, then you probably want to do the applications all at once.

On what basis do think you can bring the others to the UK?

Thanks!

Yes, i can provide evidence of house-hold living with mum, this, however, was prior to her marriage. The key contagenon relationships (with my step=father being in relationships with my mother and my grand-da physically dependendent on my mother for health reasons) is between my mother and I. Will I be able to use her previously living with me (still as a single parent), despite her marriage, enough to pursuade UKBA that there are compelling reasons for her to join me?

Obviously, financial link is there. However, would that be enough?

I will be INDEBTED FOR any advice. Thanks

I wish I knew enough about OFMs to be able to offer advice!

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I wish I knew enough about OFMs to be able to offer advice!

Thank you Directive!!!!


Anyone, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, share some advise of experience of bringing family members to the UK. I have seen posts claiming to be able to bring cousins, can someone share similar experience? I am really confused and very little guidance elsewhere.


Regards

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I wish I knew enough about OFMs to be able to offer advice!

You are not alone, even the UK courts have difficulty understanding the scope and who qualifiew for residency and hence the MR case.

Historical household membership or dependency is not accepted neither is dependency or membership that existed prior to you becoming a Union Citizen accepted.

Provided you can show your dependents need your support to meet their essential needs, they will qualify as family members or other family members as the case may be

Obie wrote:Historical household membership or dependency is not accepted neither is dependency or membership that existed prior to you becoming a Union Citizen accepted.

Why do you say this? At least in Ireland there have been cases of historical household membership qualifying.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

Obie wrote:Historical household membership or dependency is not accepted neither is dependency or membership that existed prior to you becoming a Union Citizen accepted.

Why do you say this? At least in Ireland there have been cases of historical household membership qualifying.

I am a citizen of Eire, residing in the UK, thus exercising my EU rights which, in my understanding, are WIDER than MY national (IRISH) ones, ? Am I wrong?!?

a.s.b.o wrote:

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

Obie wrote:Historical household membership or dependency is not accepted neither is dependency or membership that existed prior to you becoming a Union Citizen accepted.

Why do you say this? At least in Ireland there have been cases of historical household membership qualifying.

I am a citizen of Eire, residing in the UK, thus exercising my EU rights which, in my understanding, are WIDER than MY national (IRISH) ones, ? Am I wrong?!?

ASBO this is actually a separate issue specifically related to OFMs.

But In general the EU rights are usually wider than (or in some countries equal to) the national law related to you entering the country with your family members.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: Why do you say this? At least in Ireland there have been cases of historical household membership qualifying.

The UK court in the case of Bigia, stated that Household membership that occurred several years before the Union citizen moved to the host memberstate will not be sufficient to get someone into the category of OFM.
This is one part of the UK' s restrictive interpretation of the directive.
Hopefully it will be resolved soon.
I agree. This Irish has a more liberal interpretation that is in line with the spirit and purpose of the directive

Gents, thank you very much!

Has anything in what I have indicated amounted to smth that I can substantiate to a valid claim to bring my relatives?

On the other note, you indicated that Ireland has a wider (read, more favourable) interpretation. Is this for other EU citizens or is that inclusive of its own citizens and their non-EU relatives?

Thank you

a.s.b.o wrote:On the other note, you indicated that Ireland has a wider (read, more favourable) interpretation. Is this for other EU citizens or is that inclusive of its own citizens and their non-EU relatives?

Thank you

This is Ireland's interpretation for EU citizensand their OFMs exercising treaty rights in Ireland. You are an Irish citizen living in the UK and therefore it is the UK's interpretation that will be relevent to any application your family members make.

Greenie wrote:This is Ireland's interpretation for EU citizensand their OFMs exercising treaty rights in Ireland. You are an Irish citizen living in the UK and therefore it is the UK's interpretation that will be relevent to any application your family members make.

Unless the OP returns to Ireland. At that point he can use this facility.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

Greenie wrote:This is Ireland's interpretation for EU citizensand their OFMs exercising treaty rights in Ireland. You are an Irish citizen living in the UK and therefore it is the UK's interpretation that will be relevent to any application your family members make.

Unless the OP returns to Ireland. At that point he can use this facility.

Would I not stop exercising my European rights at that point and would only be entitled to the Irish national regulations?! Can you, perhaps, think of a case or two I can get my fork into to see if I can substantiate a strong application?

Cheers gents

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

Some restrictions apply!

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

Some restrictions apply!

Thank you Directive. Does it not apply only to immediate family memebers (i.e. spouse, children)? Does it cover extensive family members (mother, grandfather, etc) as well? If it does, this would entail establishing presence in the UK (which I already have) and move back to Eire to be able to claim (1) right of EU legislation as opposed to the natinal legislation and (2) present application for a family reunion? Thirdly, there were indication in earlier posts that Ireland will accept prior living together even if the EU national was not an EU national at that moment in time???

Thank you once again

Gents

I think I have clarified ONE point:

- at the outset, my mother (and her husband, being her spouse) and my grandfather ARE NOT EXTENDED FAMILY BUT INDEED A FAMILY MEMBER.

However, they will be admitted (notwithstanding other conditions) only if I establish dependency:

2.1 [...]
Dependants in the ascending line (i.e. parents, grandparents) of the EEA national or of his/her spouse / civil partner.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

The UK does not apply Singh to OFMs.
I am not sure about Ireland.

Parents can be direct family members or OFMs depending on the situation.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The UK does not apply Singh to OFMs.
I am not sure about Ireland.

Parents can be direct family members or OFMs depending on the situation.

Thanks Directive

and what determines the discernment between the two?

Take for instance a child.

If they are under 21, then they are a direct family member. If they are 45 and live with you, then they are likely an OFM.

For any given situation, you read through the DFM list and see where the person would fit or not. And similarly you read through the OFM and see where they fit.

Some people may fit only in one slot. Some people may fit in several possibly slots.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The UK does not apply Singh to OFMs.
I am not sure about Ireland.

Parents can be direct family members or OFMs depending on the situation.

You are right on this, as regulation 9 only makes provision for family members of returning British national. Needless to say this is a wrong and restrictive interpretation of the Singh principal.

Thankfully the courts have rightly upheld the rights of other beneficiaries of Singh who are not recognised by the EEA regulation.

This has mostly been done on the basis that EU law has precedent over national law.

Obie wrote:

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The UK does not apply Singh to OFMs.
I am not sure about Ireland.

Parents can be direct family members or OFMs depending on the situation.

Thankfully the courts have rightly upheld the rights of other beneficiaries of Singh who are not recognised by the EEA regulation.

This has mostly been done on the basis that EU law has precedent over national law.

And what way is that benefitial to families of EEA citizens?

Can I possibly ask you to help me to cap the discussion

- I will be in a strongER position to bring my relatives if I (a) provide evidence of consistent and well documented financial dependency on me; (b) provide evidence that I travel and see them often (hence, continuing sending money and not being able to travel as much may breach my rights of choice of the place of residence) ?

Thank you

Hey guys

I did my research (just to indicate that I am not dumping all of the answers on you) and I found some merit in my previous post - in the form of the UKBA manual on how to process such appications. Chapter 5 indicates that if there is a significant evidence of hte travel arrangements in conjunction with the financial support, UKBA cannot simply brush off and say that I can continue to support them and skype them, call them or smth like that. Frequent travel (and i mean like 3-4 times a year) and so on would actually indicate to UKBA that there is a significant dependency, besides the financial one.

Can you please comment? Many, many thanks