EU Family Permit - Residency Card Question

[Shanemcc]

Hi,
My wife is Japanese and I am Irish, from the Republic of Ireland.

We moved from Ireland to the UK in 2010 when she was granted a YMS visa. We were married last December(2011) in Ireland and my wife's UK Visa will expire towards the end of April.

We are sorting out our paperwork now, but I am a bit confused about the EU family permit and UK Spouse Visa.

My understanding is that the EU Family Permit is free, and will take about 10 days to get.
Once we have the EU Family Permit, my wife will need to apply for a UK Residence Card which can take up to 6months to process, and during this time the UK government will take my wife's passport.

My understanding of the UK Spouse Visa is that it can cost between £550 and £850.
For the £550 postal application it can take about a month.
It can be fast tracked if we pay £850 for a interview and we could walk out of the meeting with the Passport visa if we pass all the criteria.

I think that the EU Family Permit and Residency Card is the route we will choose.
Because we are already living in the UK, does my wife need an EU Family Permit to apply for a UK Residence Card?
As the process could take up until May, should my wife worry about any employment issues as her visa is due to expire in April?


Thanks guys,
All help and information is much appreciated.
Shane

[Jambo]

EEA questions have a better chance of getting answered if asked in the dedicated EEA forums.

As for your questions - The EEA Family Permit serves as entry clearance to the UK. As you are already in the UK, it is not needed. Your wife should apply for a Residence Card using form EEA2.

Under EEA regulations, her status is derived from her relationship to you, an EEA national exercising treaty rights in the UK. She is legal in the UK as long as you exercise treaty rights in the UK and as long as she is your family member. The Residence Card just confirms this right and applying for it is optional. It is recommended to apply for Residence Card as it serves as a proof to employers that she is allowed to work.

Although EEA2 application can take upto 6 months. The average is 3-4 months. Once applied, she will get (about a month later) a letter confirming her application (Certificate of Application) stating she is allowed to work.

You can always ask for the passports back (you will need to send both yours and hers) and this will not have any affect on the application.

For more information see Non-EU family members.

[vinny]

EEA questions have a better chance of getting answered if asked in the dedicated EEA forums.

Topic moved.

[Shanemcc]

Thank you both, your advice is really appreciated!
Shane

[flashware]

Although EEA2 application can take upto 6 months. The average is 3-4 months. Once applied, she will get (about a month later) a letter confirming her application (Certificate of Application) stating she is allowed to work.

You can always ask for the passports back (you will need to send both yours and hers) and this will not have any affect on the application.

For more information see Non-EU family members.

Sorry to hijack, but just to say thanks as this pretty much confirms all the info on http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... /applying/

My question to you is regarding the passports ; I'm currently doing some work that sees me out of the country quite often and the most I could do without it is 1.5-2 weeks. Would it be a matter of express posting the application in, then asking for the passport back straight away as per:
How can you get your passport back from the UK Border Agency if you need to travel? Close

If you need your passport or ID card back whilst we are processing your application you should follow the instructions below. We will endeavour to return your documents as soon as possible- usually within 5 working days, however there may be exceptional cases where it takes longer so we strongly advise that you do not book travel until your application has been fully considered and your documents returned to you.

Non-urgent requests

If you will be travelling in the near future (i.e in the next month) and need your documents back, please email your request to LiverpoolEuro.PassportReturns@UKBA.gsi.gov.uk. Please provide details of your travel plans and your Home Office reference if possible.

We will normally return your documents to you using Royal Mail 2nd class post. If you have provided a pre-paid Recorded or Special delivery envelope with your application then we will use this to return your documents securely.

Emergency Requests

We understand that sometimes circumstances arise when you need your passport or ID card back as a matter of urgency. As with all requests we will endeavour to return your documents as soon as possible (within 5 days) , however in emergency cases we will allocate your case to a manager who will monitor your request to ensure you are kept informed of progress. In order to request this service you should contact our European Enquiries Contact Centre on 0845 010 5200. Please note that we do not routinely accept emergency requests, therefore we require evidence of your need to travel.

We will normally return your documents to you using Royal Mail 2nd class post. If you have provided a pre-paid Recorded or Special delivery envelope with your application then we will use this to return your documents securely.

If we return your documents at your request we will not withdraw your application and you will not be required to make a fresh application. However, on occasion we may need to request your passport or ID card back to complete the processing of your residence card.

[Jambo]

My question to you is regarding the passports ; I'm currently doing some work that sees me out of the country quite often and the most I could do without it is 1.5-2 weeks. Would it be a matter of express posting the application in, then asking for the passport back straight away as per:
How can you get your passport back from the UK Border Agency if you need to travel?

It is very unlikely you will get it back earlier than 3-4 weeks this way because of the backlog of getting you into the system.

Another option might be for you to apply for Residence Certificate (EEA1) in person in Croydon (same day service although 2 months waiting for an appointment) and then use the certificate only for your spouse application (with a photocopy of your passport). Not sure if this would work so better to call the HO and ask for their advice.

[flashware]

My question to you is regarding the passports ; I'm currently doing some work that sees me out of the country quite often and the most I could do without it is 1.5-2 weeks. Would it be a matter of express posting the application in, then asking for the passport back straight away as per:
How can you get your passport back from the UK Border Agency if you need to travel?

It is very unlikely you will get it back earlier than 3-4 weeks this way because of the backlog of getting you into the system.

Another option might be for you to apply for Residence Certificate (EEA1) in person in Croydon (same day service although 2 months waiting for an appointment) and then use the certificate only for your spouse application (with a photocopy of your passport). Not sure if this would work so better to call the HO and ask for their advice.

Thanks. I'll look into that. I'm actually the non-EEA, so I'll get SWMBO to look into getting the EEA1 then go from there. In any case, will contact the HO!

[Jambo]

Thanks. I'll look into that. I'm actually the non-EEA, so I'll get SWMBO to look into getting the EEA1 then go from there. In any case, will contact the HO!

In that case getting EEA1 beforehand won't matter. If you are currently on another category visa, the HO might be willing to accept the application based on your existing details in the system. In any case, the HO will need to see your passport at least once and you should be ready to send it to them for 2-3 weeks. Another option is to apply for another EEA Family Permit abroad. You don't need to be a legal resident there in order to apply. Some consulates process the application in 4-5 days.

[Beany2012]

I had exactly this situation before Xmas. They had our passports on Dec 19 and I made it quite clear I needed mine back by January 16 for a business trip to Brazil.

At least 120 calls later, I gave up and postponed the trip. My passport arrived Jan 20, having apparently been processed on January 17.

I'm now applying for a second passport for business purposes as my wife needs to reapply for her UK residence card and I have my rearranged trip looming large.

I'd say you've got more chance of winning the lottery than getting your passport back within two weeks.

[flashware]

Thanks. I'll look into that. I'm actually the non-EEA, so I'll get SWMBO to look into getting the EEA1 then go from there. In any case, will contact the HO!

In that case getting EEA1 beforehand won't matter. If you are currently on another category visa, the HO might be willing to accept the application based on your existing details in the system. In any case, the HO will need to see your passport at least once and you should be ready to send it to them for 2-3 weeks. Another option is to apply for another EEA Family Permit abroad. You don't need to be a legal resident there in order to apply. Some consulates process the application in 4-5 days.

I'm currently on a Tier 5 (YMS) ; so similar to the OP in that case.

The EEA Family Permit only gives right to enter the UK rather than the right to work though doesn't it?

[flashware]

I had exactly this situation before Xmas. They had our passports on Dec 19 and I made it quite clear I needed mine back by January 16 for a business trip to Brazil.

At least 120 calls later, I gave up and postponed the trip. My passport arrived Jan 20, having apparently been processed on January 17.

I'm now applying for a second passport for business purposes as my wife needs to reapply for her UK residence card and I have my rearranged trip looming large.

I'd say you've got more chance of winning the lottery than getting your passport back within two weeks.

Just to clarify, Dec 19 was when you sent in the actual application? How did you go about making it clear you needed it by Jan 16? Also, given that's over the Christmas period that may explain it... I'm likely to be doing this around June/July in which case it may be better?

A second passport may not work as all my visas that I require (for the countries I'm working in at the moment) are all in my current passport. BTW I didn't think you could operate off 2 passports?

[Jambo]

EEA Family Permit allows you to work from day 1.

Some countries allow 2 passports. The UK is one of them but you need a reason for having them for example certain contries stamps in your passport would prevent you from entering other countries (Israel and Iran for example).

[flashware]

EEA Family Permit allows you to work from day 1.

Some countries allow 2 passports. The UK is one of them but you need a reason for having them for example certain contries stamps in your passport would prevent you from entering other countries (Israel and Iran for example).

I must be confused with my understanding then. I thought the EEA Family Permit was different to the residence card and that the EEA Family Permit was just to give you entry to the UK while the Residence Card is applied for (and thus you have no ability to work, as you need the Residence Card).

I wonder whether Australia will give me a 2nd passport. I'll enquire with my embassy.

[nonspecifics]

You are right in the regard that the family permit is mainly for an entry clearance / travel visa.

Nevertheless, it does say on my friends' family permits (fp) that work is allowed. I believe that the EU Directive assumes treaty rights are being exercised for the first three months ( by the EEA national) and so I'm guessing that's why the family permit confirms the right to work.

The family permit (fp) only last six months before it expires, so that's why getting a residence card is important, because once the fp expires then it gets hard to prove to employers or airlines etc that you have a legal right to reside and work in the UK as the family member of an EEA national.

[Beany2012]

I had exactly this situation before Xmas. They had our passports on Dec 19 and I made it quite clear I needed mine back by January 16 for a business trip to Brazil.

At least 120 calls later, I gave up and postponed the trip. My passport arrived Jan 20, having apparently been processed on January 17.

I'm now applying for a second passport for business purposes as my wife needs to reapply for her UK residence card and I have my rearranged trip looming large.

I'd say you've got more chance of winning the lottery than getting your passport back within two weeks.

Just to clarify, Dec 19 was when you sent in the actual application? How did you go about making it clear you needed it by Jan 16? Also, given that's over the Christmas period that may explain it... I'm likely to be doing this around June/July in which case it may be better?

A second passport may not work as all my visas that I require (for the countries I'm working in at the moment) are all in my current passport. BTW I didn't think you could operate off 2 passports?

They received everything on December 19 and I stated quite clearly in the cover letter that I need just my passport back by mid-January. Cost my company about 1k to rebook two flights, hence why they want me to get a second passport. For this, you have to provide a letter from your employer stating why you need one so badly, given my primary passport wil be disappearing into the ether for another few weeks, I'm optimistic it will be issued.

Also, the EEA FP allows the holder to work from day one. My wife got her NI number in a matter of days which makes this fresh delay to the RC even more frustrating.

[flashware]

I had exactly this situation before Xmas. They had our passports on Dec 19 and I made it quite clear I needed mine back by January 16 for a business trip to Brazil.

At least 120 calls later, I gave up and postponed the trip. My passport arrived Jan 20, having apparently been processed on January 17.

I'm now applying for a second passport for business purposes as my wife needs to reapply for her UK residence card and I have my rearranged trip looming large.

I'd say you've got more chance of winning the lottery than getting your passport back within two weeks.

Just to clarify, Dec 19 was when you sent in the actual application? How did you go about making it clear you needed it by Jan 16? Also, given that's over the Christmas period that may explain it... I'm likely to be doing this around June/July in which case it may be better?

A second passport may not work as all my visas that I require (for the countries I'm working in at the moment) are all in my current passport. BTW I didn't think you could operate off 2 passports?

They received everything on December 19 and I stated quite clearly in the cover letter that I need just my passport back by mid-January. Cost my company about 1k to rebook two flights, hence why they want me to get a second passport. For this, you have to provide a letter from your employer stating why you need one so badly, given my primary passport wil be disappearing into the ether for another few weeks, I'm optimistic it will be issued.

Also, the EEA FP allows the holder to work from day one. My wife got her NI number in a matter of days which makes this fresh delay to the RC even more frustrating.

Quite interesting, thanks for the insight. I've e-mailed the Consular Services of the Australian Embassy in London and will see what they come back with in terms of timeframe for applying for a 2nd passport etc. as I generally only have 2 weeks at a time in London these days.

[flashware]

The question would be though, how does one apply for an EEA FP with as little disruption as possible? Based on http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... documents/ it seems like I don't need to send my passport in? Just the EEA family member's passport copy (certified), marriage certificate and a letter from my wife saying that I will be joining her in the UK?

How does this work if I have a current work visa, which is valid till mid September? Do I have to leave the country, apply, wait for approval, then re-enter (if so, could I just pop over to another neighbouring country on "holiday" while doing so) or is there a way to get it sorted while still in the UK?

[Jambo]

The list of documents is what is needed in addition to your passport. You will need to give your passport away for a few days. Processing time takes several days at least but if you are based there for a week on business, that might work for me (or all your business trips just one or two days long?)

You can have a UK work visa in parallel to a EEA permit, they should not invalidate each other. If you got a visa until September, I would wait until you have stretch of a few weeks you know you will stay in the UK and apply then for RC using EEA2. There is no rush to get it done with just now. Your 5 years under EEA regulations for PR status starts from the moment you got married (if in the UK) or entered the UK as a married person. The issue/expiry dates of the RC are just administrative dates.

[flashware]

The list of documents is what is needed in addition to your passport. You will need to give your passport away for a few days. Processing time takes several days at least but if you are based there for a week on business, that might work for me (or all your business trips just one or two days long?)

You can have a UK work visa in parallel to a EEA permit, they should not invalidate each other. If you got a visa until September, I would wait until you have stretch of a few weeks you know you will stay in the UK and apply then for RC using EEA2. There is no rush to get it done with just now. Your 5 years under EEA regulations for PR status starts from the moment you got married (if in the UK) or entered the UK as a married person. The issue/expiry dates of the RC are just administrative dates.

Re: timeframe, that's what I was planning to do, so that sounds good. Unfortunately my work trips are to countries in Africa (for up to weeks at a time) that don't have a UK embassy "handy", the closest is in the country next door

That's very handy to know re: the PR ; from my reading I read that to not be the case! Very good if it is!

I guess an option is to "holiday" in France for 2 weeks and apply for the EEA FP there at the worst case scenario...

[flashware]

If you got a visa until September, I would wait until you have stretch of a few weeks you know you will stay in the UK and apply then for RC using EEA2.

The only issue being I'm never here for more than 2 weeks. So unless my client can arrange some London based work, it'll be hard. That's why I'm hoping the Australian Consulate may grant me a 2nd passport....

[flashware]

The good news is I've been able to arrange London based work for the next few months (rather than overseas trips), so I'm going to send off my EEA2 application on Monday.

In the mean time ; we're about to buy a house and going through the mortgage application process. I understand that the EEA2 is a 'nice to have' thing, as it helps prove your right to stay, but not absolutely necessary. Is there a specific part of the EU laws that I could quote showing our mortgage broker I have right to remain through my wife (who is an EU citizen) in the mean time?

[Jambo]

Your right is based on Regulation 14(2) of The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006. However I'm not sure that showing a piece of legislation would satisft the broker. However, your current Tier-5 visa should be enough I believe.

[flashware]

Your right is based on Regulation 14(2) of The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006. However I'm not sure that showing a piece of legislation would satisft the broker. However, your current Tier-5 visa should be enough I believe.

Perfect, thanks. I don't think the visa is any good as they look for 2 years ability to stay and mine expires September this year unfortunately!

[flashware]

Only 1 question on the EEA2 form, relating to 5.6 Salary/wages received each month/week.

Should this be the gross or net amount? It doesn't specify.

The only other thing I'm not sure on is whether I need to provide evidence of my current employment, or just my partner (who is the EEA person) as I'm the non-EEA family member.

[Jambo]

It doesn't really matter. There isn't a threshold you need to meet. I would put gross. You can also ignore the question if you wish.

It is the EEA national activities that matter. Your activities are not relevant (unless you are living of your salary in which case, the EEA national is exercising treaty rights as self sufficient and you need to fill in section .