Marriage visa age raised to prevent forced marriages

Post by **John** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:48 am

More detail on this UKBA webpage.

Resident · Post by **Resident** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:19 pm

Is this already introduced?

Post by **John** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:24 pm

If it is, please point me in the direction of the topic. I had a quick look before posting it, and could not spot it.

Resident · Post by **Resident** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:08 pm

There's a contradiction in the article:

1 Heading: "Marriage visa age raised to prevent forced marriages", which means IT IS introdused
2 From the article: "The five key proposals announced today are", which means it is still TO BE introdused...

Well at least that's the impression I've got, and if it is the working law already I'm totally devastated

Post by **batleykhan** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:41 pm

This whole issue of forced marriage is nothing but a devicive scheme to curb immigration by the British government.

Whilst i strongly oppose any force marriage, and consider it as an evil act, these new rules will put further strains and burdens on genuine arranged marriages that usually occur in the Indian subcontinent. Why should they be simply penalised because they are marrying abroad.

I think these rules should be challenged, and I for one will be writting to my MP to oppose these new rules

Any other thoughts?

This doc is worth reading
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Resident · Post by **Resident** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:01 am

It looks like they want tointroduce the new lules by the end of this year:

"We will increase the age at which someone can
sponsor or be sponsored as a spouse from 18 to 21.
We will introduce changes to the Immigration Rules
to bring this into effect by December 2008."

It is really ridiculous and definately should be challenged, but I doubt that it will have any noticeable effect.

Post by **Casa** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:42 am

I can see another problem arising from this new legislation. If anyone intends to marry overseas they must notify the HO of this intention before leaving the UK, otherwise a Spouse settlement visa will be refused. Where will couples stand if they are unaware of the ruling before they
marry. Not everyone has access to the internet and the HO are not very forthcoming in circulating information on changes to immigration law.

iamwhoever · Post by **iamwhoever** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:49 am

Wow. Are there that many issues with this that they need to raise the age? I mean, my sister married a Brit when she was 17 and he was 18. They had been communicating via phone and Internet for 3 years, and then he spent quite a bit of time in the US over that last year, maybe 8 out if the 12 months. They invested a serious amount of time and money into their relationship. They married in the US and then she returned to the UK with him. Had this law been in place, they wouldn't have been able to move to the UK, and their relationship is more genuine than some who are older. What does age have to do with it. They have been happily married for 4 years now. I have never seen a happier couple. They chose the UK over the US because she could join him immediately and begin working, they had the support of his family, and he had a secure job there that paid pretty well.

I can see the age limit of 18, but why raise it to 21. It just seems odd.

Post by **John** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:51 am

I think there are a couple of issues here :-

I think these rules should be challenged, and I for one will be writing to my MP to oppose these new rules
I think the rules will be challenged, given the legal ability to marry at a younger age, any immigration rule making 21 the minimum age might be held to be an infringement of Human Rights.
If anyone intends to marry overseas they must notify the HO of this intention before leaving the UK
It will be interesting to see how they word this rule. It could lead to some totally unintended situations, such as ..... family of British Citizens emigrate to Australia ... family includes a 10 year old child ..... 15 years later, now aged 25, the ex-child has got married and now wishes to move back to the UK with their spouse. Wait a minute, they did not give notice of their intention to marry before they left!

Post by **Casa** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:17 am

And what will happen if someone fails to notify the HO of the intention to marry before they leave the UK, and the spouse visa is then refused under this rule. Will there be no way to rectify this? Excluded forever??

Post by **John** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:34 am

Personally I think, as an anti-forced-marriage rule, it makes a lot of sense. Too many young Britons being taken abroad, not knowing their parents intend to get them married off during the holiday. So just looking at that aspect, great, notification of the marriage prior to leaving the UK will stop parents abusing their child's rights in this way.

However, as I illustrated above with a person who might have lived abroad for many years, the rule needs to be very carefully worded, in order not to have undesired side effects.

So again, it will be interesting to see how they actually intend to word this rule.

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:42 am

John wrote:Personally I think, as an anti-forced-marriage rule, it makes a lot of sense. Too many young Britons being taken abroad, not knowing their parents intend to get them married off during the holiday. So just looking at that aspect, great, notification of the marriage prior to leaving the UK will stop parents abusing their child's rights in this way.

However, as I illustrated above with a person who might have lived abroad for many years, the rule needs to be very carefully worded, in order not to have undesired side effects.

So again, it will be interesting to see how they actually intend to word this rule.

They can always just ask any British citizen marrying abroad to get some sort of certificate from the embassy/high commission/consulate in the host country...like the COA in the UK....before marrying. Wouldn't that work? That way, the scenario created by John would pose no problems.

Post by **John** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:48 am

Just realised that had this rule been introduced a few years ago, I would have needed to register! That is, because we got married in Thailand, prior to leaving the UK to get married and then have honeymoon in Thailand, I would have needed to register this intention to marry abroad.

Conclusion .... lots of people are going to need to register ... far wider than appears at first glance to be the case ..... far wider than those who might be subject to forced marriages.

In fact, for us, all pre-arranged with planning, I left the UK on a Saturday, arrived in Thailand on the Sunday, and then got married legally on the Monday (having complied with Thai requirements on a previous visit), had a big religious wedding on the next Saturday, and 12 days after that spouse visa issued at the British Embassy!

whirly · Post by **whirly** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:20 am

They can always just ask any British citizen marrying abroad to get some sort of certificate from the embassy/high commission/consulate in the host country...like the COA in the UK....before marrying. Wouldn't that work? That way, the scenario created by John would pose no problems.

Just realised that had this rule been introduced a few years ago, I would have needed to register!

My husband and I would have been caught in the same net as well, and we got married even faster than you! What little wedding planning we did only took 3 weeks. I flew to California for a few days, then met him in New York. He flew on a Wednesday, we got the marriage license on Thursday, we were married on Friday, had a nice honeymoon weekend, got my spouse visa on Monday, and he flew back to London on Tuesday. How much longer would it have taken if we had had to do the equivalent of COA?

I can see how it might be fair... even 2 Brits marrying in the UK have to register their intention to get married (banns, etc)... but I still don't see why it is absolutely necessary. As John said, I think this new rule is too far spread in its scope.

Post by **JAJ** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:56 pm

John wrote:
I think the rules will be challenged, given the legal ability to marry at a younger age, any immigration rule making 21 the minimum age might be held to be an infringement of Human Rights.

The minimum age of 18 (currently) is already higher than the marriage age, which is legally 16 in most parts of the U.K. (subject to consent from parents).

The problem is that those in the 18-21 age bracket are legally adults but in many (most?) situations have not got the necessary financial or emotional maturity to be genuinely independent of parents and pressure to enter into a forced marriage.

This applies especially to girls.

No solution is going to be easy but if forced marriage for immigration purposes is seen as a problem and the 18-21 age group are especially vulnerable to this, then this appears to be an appropriate solution. It is unusual these days for marriage to take place before age 21 in any case.

If the difference between the legal marriage age and the age for immigration is such a problem, then maybe the marriage age should increase to 21.

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:18 pm

I actually thought that spouse visa applications/success rates decreased due to the ruling on 'third party support', since 18-21YOs probably applied for visas with the financial assistance of their parents?

As for the registration - it depends on how long it would take to be issued a certificate. Also, can they not only apply the requirement to countries where forced marriages are more of a problem (without any arguments that it is dearly beloved/anti-Islamic, etc)? That way it would only affect a few countries.

About raising the age of sponsorship - I can't see the HO winning on this. Maybe they could implement financial requirements (minimum earnings threshold) if the sponsor is under 21. I think that would be less of a court battle than increasing the age to 21.

Just my thoughts....

shadi · Post by **shadi** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:01 pm

Hi John, I came to the UK on a 5 yrs WP that is valid until 14th of Oct 2008 with my spouse and four girls, . We entered UK on 7th Nov 2003. Counting the time (28 day rule) etc, I will have only 2 days to apply for a prospective ILR before the leave to remian finishes. Very importantly can we apply for FLR without extnding our leave on 16/17 Sept this year? I will still have leave for around 4weeks. Since I am not clear I have decided to get the WP extended and first apply for a silly FLR. Three of my daughters are now over 18. We live as a family unit and they are all unmarried. They will apply separately on FLR(O) form.
1.What they should say in their ltr with the application(that is what the application form says)?
2. What will be their immigration status after their FLR is approved?
3. Will their rest of the time (i.e may be one day!) count towards the 5 yr stay?
Kindly explain the rules in this regard. Thanks

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:11 pm

shadi wrote:Hi John, I came to the UK on a 5 yrs WP that is valid until 14th of Oct 2008 with my spouse and four girls, . We entered UK on 7th Nov 2003. Counting the time (28 day rule) etc, I will have only 2 days to apply for a prospective ILR before the leave to remian finishes. Very importantly can we apply for FLR without extnding our leave on 16/17 Sept this year? I will still have leave for around 4weeks. Since I am not clear I have decided to get the WP extended and first apply for a silly FLR. Three of my daughters are now over 18. We live as a family unit and they are all unmarried. They will apply separately on FLR(O) form.
1.What they should say in their ltr with the application(that is what the application form says)?
2. What will be their immigration status after their FLR is approved?
3. Will their rest of the time (i.e may be one day!) count towards the 5 yr stay?
Kindly explain the rules in this regard. Thanks

Is there any reason why you have posted your question here, when this thread is clearly about the HO's proposed changes to spouse visas?

Please start a new thread, as your questions are unrelated and risks going off-topic.

Post by **John** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:33 pm

sakura wrote:They can always just ask any British citizen marrying abroad to get some sort of certificate from the embassy/high commission/consulate in the host country...like the COA in the UK....before marrying. Wouldn't that work? That way, the scenario created by John would pose no problems.

Yes, that makes sense .... especially if such British Mission can only issue such certificate to a person who is a citizen of the country, and has actually lived there for a specified minimum length of time, or has long term permission to be resident in the particular overseas country.

That way they would not be permitted to issue a certificate to anyone who is merely on holiday in the country concerned .... something which would rather defeat the whole idea of needing registration before leaving the UK.

JAJ wrote:The problem is that those in the 18-21 age bracket are legally adults but in many (most?) situations have not got the necessary financial or emotional maturity to be genuinely independent of parents and pressure to enter into a forced marriage.

Yes that could well be the case where the UK resident is the younger person. However this rule works in both directions ..... a 28yo British person marrying a 19yo non-EEA citizen will also be caught ... in the same way as if those ages were reversed.

And of course, irrespective of age, if the financial test is not met then the application will get rejected. So you don't need to increase the minimum age in order to deal with this point.

Post by **John** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:36 pm

shadi, I shall not be answering your post here. As suggested by sakura, please start a new topic.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:09 pm

Hiya Guys

I'm a Brititish Citizen, who will be marrying in India in early Sept 2008. My fiancee is an Indian Citizen, 20 and will only turn 21 in June 2009. We have been planning our wedding for over 2.5 years.

Maybe i should be asking this when the new rules become a lot clearer, but....

- Currently will i need to register my intention of getting married abroad with the HO before i fly out to india?

- If these rules are still to be finalised, will we be able to apply for the settlement visa under the old rules as we would have got married before they are actually introduced.

Post by **John** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:40 pm

I think this is a very good question you ask, and there are going to be people caught on or around when the new rules come in, unless there are transitional arrangements.

I think the best indication is that the new rules will come in as from some time in December 2008. So as you speak about "marrying in India in early Sept 2008", I think you are probably OK. Suggest you get the application for a spouse visa in as soon as possible after the legal marriage has happened. After all you can prepare most of the "evidence folder" before the wedding, and just add the marriage certificate and maybe a couple of pics from the wedding, before submitting the application.

Your question raises the need for transitional provisions. For example, one would hope that an application for a spouse visa will be dealt with under the rules in force when the application is made, and not when it is decided. Otherwise there will be those caught out by the change, whose applications would be bound to fail. Another way of looking at that is the the Government will have changed the rules, and effectively made it impossible for the application to succeed.

So definitely transitional provisions needed.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:21 pm

I'm sure there was a small transitional period when the Visa age limit was lifted from 16 to 18. Not 100% sure though.

Post by **John** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:40 pm

I think you are right, but now we need even more transitional arrangements. For example, about the need to register an intention to marry, before leaving the UK, what if the person has already left the UK before that requirement was added?

To me it would seem extremely unfair for penalise someone for a rule that they could not possibly comply with.

Saloman · Post by **Saloman** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:59 pm

Hi Every one. Greetings.

The news report as I understand, says that, British Citizen who wants to marry abroad and his/her spouse will have to be of 21 age.

I am an Indian citizen with permission to live in UK for indefinite. I am 25 and my fiancee aged 19 in India will soon be marrying in India.
I understand the rule will be implimented to stop British citizens being forced in to arrange marriage.

Questain I want to ask is..

Does this rule apply to me too who is not British?

Could some one advice please.

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Marriage visa age raised to prevent forced marriages

Marriage visa age raised to prevent forced marriages

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