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Overstayer in need of some advice please!!

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Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé/e | Ancestry

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weldsousa2007
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Overstayer in need of some advice please!!

Post by weldsousa2007 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:22 pm

Hi all :

First of all I would like to start by thanking every body in charge of this forum and all of its members for the great help they are giving to so many people.

I'm writing this article seeking some help and advice to make a decision with regard my immigration situation. The background of my case is as follows:
I came to the UK on April 2004 on a visitor visa for 6 months. But a month later, I fell in love with my partner whom I'm still living with. On November 2006 we submitted an application for the extension of leave to remain in the United Kingdom as the unmarried partner of a person present and settled here in the uk outside the immigration rules on compassionate grounds. Unfortunately over the last few months I have been told it could take up to another tow to three years before they could reach a decision about my case. In all honesty I have had enough waiting for the outcome of this application so we've decided that may be I should go back to Tunisia and apply from there (same application as the one I've got now or as a fiance or spouse one). But since I've been reading about some cases in this forums and few others we feel it would be a big risk to take to go back home to regularize the situation from there.
Just one more details my partner is a professional British citizen on a highly paid executive job so we've never had any recourse to public funds.
Based on this facts I would like to ask some questions and would appreciate if anyone out there would be able to help:
1. If I decide to go back which of visas should we apply for?
2. If I decide to stay:
. What can I do to chase this application and quicken any decision about it?
.. Can I get any papers to allow me to do some studies or work while I'm waiting for HO?
My solicitor thinks I should be able to study but never provided me with any further info on how can I do it?

Any professional thoughts on my case would be very much appreciated (whether I should stay and wait for this in country application or I should go back home) and any similar cases or situation would be nice to share. Please feel free to contact me and many thanks in advance to you all.

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:52 pm

Are you a Tunisian citizen?

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:00 pm

JAJ wrote:Are you a Tunisian citizen?
yes

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:04 pm

weldsousa2007 wrote:
JAJ wrote:Are you a Tunisian citizen?
yes
does that make any difference?

SYH
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Post by SYH » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:12 pm

If you submitted an application for ltr before the visitor visa expired, then you wouldn't be in the same lot as the overstayers who didn't try to work within the rules.

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:23 pm

SYH wrote:If you submitted an application for ltr before the visitor visa expired, then you wouldn't be in the same lot as the overstayers who didn't try to work within the rules.
I did not know at the time, otherwise I would not have been in this position and I would not particularly choose to be. So there is no need to be so judgmental about "Overstayers" because at the end of the day we are all human being you know. So it would be nice if we all try to be a bit understanding to each other's circumstances.
cheers!

SYH
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Post by SYH » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:24 am

weldsousa2007 wrote:
SYH wrote:If you submitted an application for ltr before the visitor visa expired, then you wouldn't be in the same lot as the overstayers who didn't try to work within the rules.
I did not know at the time, otherwise I would not have been in this position and I would not particularly choose to be. So there is no need to be so judgmental about "Overstayers" because at the end of the day we are all human being you know. So it would be nice if we all try to be a bit understanding to each other's circumstances.
cheers!
you missed my point
guilty conscious

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Post by Wanderer » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:43 am

SYH wrote:
weldsousa2007 wrote:
SYH wrote:If you submitted an application for ltr before the visitor visa expired, then you wouldn't be in the same lot as the overstayers who didn't try to work within the rules.
I did not know at the time, otherwise I would not have been in this position and I would not particularly choose to be. So there is no need to be so judgmental about "Overstayers" because at the end of the day we are all human being you know. So it would be nice if we all try to be a bit understanding to each other's circumstances.
cheers!
you missed my point
guilty conscious
I must admit too I cannot excuse overstaying, or consider it a small indiscretion.

Just my two Kopekii....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:23 am

Wanderer wrote:
SYH wrote:
weldsousa2007 wrote:
SYH wrote:If you submitted an application for ltr before the visitor visa expired, then you wouldn't be in the same lot as the overstayers who didn't try to work within the rules.
I did not know at the time, otherwise I would not have been in this position and I would not particularly choose to be. So there is no need to be so judgmental about "Overstayers" because at the end of the day we are all human being you know. So it would be nice if we all try to be a bit understanding to each other's circumstances.
cheers!
you missed my point
guilty conscious
I must admit too I cannot excuse overstaying, or consider it a small indiscretion.

Just my two Kopekii....
You are both entitle to your opinion and I would probably agree with what you've said. However, that is not the reason why I wrote in this forum. So if you could provide some help that would be better appreciated.
Cheers!

ilm
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Post by ilm » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:07 pm

Here are my none professional thoughts from someone has been here for a while and had first hand exprience of a spouse who was an overstayer.

1, If you are married you can apply for a spouse visa, if not it is either a fiance visa or any other visa that leads to settlement in the UK if you qualify. The time you have lived together in the UK won't count for unmarried partners BTW.

2, I don't know how you can chase the application, read how others have gone about it on these boards. Based on the 'facts' though it is very unlikely your application will be accepted anyway as you will see if you read posts on this board about overstayers. Also overstayers can't study and can't work.

Obviously you feel there are 'compassionate grounds' which may make a difference but as you havn't mentioned them I'll assume they are not very strong. Everyone in your position, I know from experience, feels their case is special and should get special treatment. The simple fact is overstayers in the UK get very little sympathy and have to follow the rules just like everyone else.

Best of luck with whatever you do. Read up on your situation and come back with more specific questions about you options, you are far more likely to get helpful replies. It is posible to resolve you situation but it won't be easy.
Last edited by ilm on Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:52 pm

ilm wrote:Here are my none professional thoughts from someone has been here for a while and had first hand exprience of a spouse who was an overstayer.

1, If you are married you can apply for a spouse visa, if not it is either a fiance visa or any other visa that leads to settlement in the UK if you qualify. The time you have lived together in the UK won't cound for unmarried partners BTW.

2, I don't know how you can chase the application, read how others having one about it on these boards. Based on the 'facts' though it is very unlikely your application will be accepted anyway as you will see if you read posts on this board about overstayers. Also overstayers can't study and can't work.

Obviously you feel there are 'compassionate grounds' which may make a difference but as you havn't mentioned them I assume they are not very strong. Everyone in your position, I know from experience, feels their case is special and should get special treatment. The simple fact is overstayers in the UK get very little sympathy and have to follow the rules just like everyone else.

Best of luck with whatever you do. Read up on your situation and come back with more specific questions about you options, you are far more likely to get helpful replies. It is posible to resolve you situation but it won't be easy.
Thank you for you thoughts, I do appreciate that.

With regard "the compassionate ground of my application" they are as follow:

Reasons for the application

i). I am precluded from making an application under paragraphs 295 of HC 395 as amended because I do not have limited leave having overstayed my leave.

ii). However, I am the unmarried partner of a person present and settled here in the United Kingdom and we have lived together in a relationship akin to marriage for over two years and would have benefited from the Home Office policy DP/3/96.

iii). X my partner has a highly paid job in the United Kingdom and she is unlikely to find a similar job in my country and it would be unreasonable to expect her to leave this job as it would drastically affect her earning power. Moreover my partner X is a Christian, does not speak French or Arabic and as a woman will find it difficult to adjust in a strange culture.

iv). I was genuinely unaware that I needed to do anything about my leave to remain assuming that cohabitation with my partner, a British citizen, in a relationship akin to marriage was enough. Before then I had a good immigration history.

v). Because of my conversion from Islam to Christianity, it is risky for me to return to my country even for a very short time to apply for entry clearance under paragraphs 295D of HC 395. The current political climate means that such conversion would be seen as a sell out and I could be killed or at the very least the punishment which could be from non-state actors (in circumstances where the state is either unable or unwilling to interfere) is likely to be inhuman and degrading within the ambit of Article 3 of the ECHR and consequently the United Kingdom would be in breach of her treaty obligations.

vi). I am not aware that the Secretary of State has initiated enforcement action which would stop the clock.

vii). The fact that me and my partner have lived together for over two years means that there are human rights considerations within the ambit of Article 8 of the ECHR. Whilst it is conceded that the right to private and family life is not absolute, it would nevertheless be a disproportionate interference to refuse the application on the grounds that it is unreasonable to expect my partner to go and live in my country given the economic and socio-cultural disadvantages, but more importantly if I return to my country to seek entry clearance, I run the risk of being killed or at the very least subjected to inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment. This set of factors would tip the balance of proportionality and satisfy the high threshold of truly exceptional compassionate circumstances set by the House of Lords in cases such as Huang and N.
viii). I have a very good relationship with my partner's adult children and I currently look after her father who is very ill.

Home Office Policy in marriage cases outside the Immigration Rules – DP3/96:
The Policy as far as is necessary for this case states that action to force a foreign spouse to leave should not normally be started:
“where the subject has a genuine and subsisting marriage with someone settled here and the couple has lived together in this country continuously since their marriage for at least two years before the commencement of enforcement action and it is unreasonable to expect the settled spouse to accompany his/her spouse on removalâ€

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:56 pm

weldsousa2007 wrote:and as a woman will find it difficult to adjust in a strange culture
Really? Earns a lot, but her woman bits just messed up her brain (all that oestrogen perhaps) and so it's too hard for her to adjust to a new culture? No other reason for this difficulty other than her gender? Sorry but it is not obvious to me why being a woman would make it more difficult to adjust to another culture. Maybe it is easier for women to adjust compared to men! Do you have any evidence for this bit?

You quote DP 3/96, but this appears to be for married couples. Did this apply to unmarried couples at any time? If not, how could you have benefited from it? I read it on the BIA website but it does not mention couples who are not married.

Hybrid applications - DP 3/96 marriage policy

My non professional thoughts.


Regards

PP

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Post by SYH » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:02 am

Weld you are one of the better writers of the posters on here looking for help but that wouldn't even make the HO misty eyed. sorry. compassionate grounds is not going to work. I think you better go back to your country and get EC despite the inhospitable political climate to your change of beliefs. For goodness sake, you don't have to tell them you changed so you are not in danger.

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Post by archigabe » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:25 am

weldsousa2007 wrote: Moreover my partner X is a Christian, does not speak French or Arabic and as a woman will find it difficult to adjust in a strange culture.
v)Because of my conversion from Islam to Christianity, it is risky for me to return to my country even for a very short time to apply for entry clearance under paragraphs 295D of HC 395.
I suggest you re-think what you are going to write to the HO, esp.the parts mentioned above. I can think of more than one reason right off the bat why it doesnt sound very plausible.

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Post by VictoriaS » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:43 am

You obviously have a solicitor, so I am not sure what further advice we can provide.


Victoria
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weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 am

PaperPusher wrote:
weldsousa2007 wrote:and as a woman will find it difficult to adjust in a strange culture
Really? Earns a lot, but her woman bits just messed up her brain (all that oestrogen perhaps) and so it's too hard for her to adjust to a new culture? No other reason for this difficulty other than her gender? Sorry but it is not obvious to me why being a woman would make it more difficult to adjust to another culture. Maybe it is easier for women to adjust compared to men! Do you have any evidence for this bit?

You quote DP 3/96, but this appears to be for married couples. Did this apply to unmarried couples at any time? If not, how could you have benefited from it? I read it on the BIA website but it does not mention couples who are not married.

Hybrid applications - DP 3/96 marriage policy

My non professional thoughts.


Regards

PP
Thank you paper Pusher for taking the time to reply to my post.

The first thing I would say to you is that your non professional thoughts are not welcomed to me and of no use whatsoever so it would've been better if you kept them to your self. And the second thing would be, YES the DP 3/96 does apply to the unmarried partner. I leave that to you to find out how. That would give you a better thing to invest your time in than telling me your non professional thoughts.

Regards

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:39 am

archigabe wrote:
weldsousa2007 wrote: Moreover my partner X is a Christian, does not speak French or Arabic and as a woman will find it difficult to adjust in a strange culture.
v)Because of my conversion from Islam to Christianity, it is risky for me to return to my country even for a very short time to apply for entry clearance under paragraphs 295D of HC 395.
I suggest you re-think what you are going to write to the HO, esp.the parts mentioned above. I can think of more than one reason right off the bat why it doesnt sound very plausible.
Thank you for you advice Archigabe. I do appreciate it and would appreciate more if you could pm me some of the reasons why it is not very plausible.

Cheers!

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:53 am

SYH wrote:Weld you are one of the better writers of the posters on here looking for help but that wouldn't even make the HO misty eyed. sorry. compassionate grounds is not going to work. I think you better go back to your country and get EC despite the inhospitable political climate to your change of beliefs. For goodness sake, you don't have to tell them you changed so you are not in danger.
Thank you SYH for your post.
It wasn't me who wrote that letter. It was the cover letter of my application.


Best Regards

SYH
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Post by SYH » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:01 am

weldsousa2007 wrote:
SYH wrote:Weld you are one of the better writers of the posters on here looking for help but that wouldn't even make the HO misty eyed. sorry. compassionate grounds is not going to work. I think you better go back to your country and get EC despite the inhospitable political climate to your change of beliefs. For goodness sake, you don't have to tell them you changed so you are not in danger.
Thank you SYH for your post.
It wasn't me who wrote that letter. It was the cover letter of my application.


Best Regards
Well then that explains it then, In any case, it doesn't matter if its the cover letter since it summarizes the argument which is weak so you are wasting your time and money with trying it.

In any case, like Victoria said, you have a solicitor. Why would you submit his letter to the forum? I don't think he would appreciate that in the first place but in the second place, your solicitor should have the intimate details of your case to make a case so you are better off sticking with him, then having us check out his work.

In my opinion, its a long shot, this case he has prepared for you and its a waste of time and money and a good way to get on the HO sh*t list. Once rejected likely to be rejected again and again is what I believe.

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:16 pm

SYH wrote:
weldsousa2007 wrote:
SYH wrote:Weld you are one of the better writers of the posters on here looking for help but that wouldn't even make the HO misty eyed. sorry. compassionate grounds is not going to work. I think you better go back to your country and get EC despite the inhospitable political climate to your change of beliefs. For goodness sake, you don't have to tell them you changed so you are not in danger.
Thank you SYH for your post.
It wasn't me who wrote that letter. It was the cover letter of my application.


Best Regards
Well then that explains it then, In any case, it doesn't matter if its the cover letter since it summarizes the argument which is weak so you are wasting your time and money with trying it.

In any case, like Victoria said, you have a solicitor. Why would you submit his letter to the forum? I don't think he would appreciate that in the first place but in the second place, your solicitor should have the intimate details of your case to make a case so you are better off sticking with him, then having us check out his work.

In my opinion, its a long shot, this case he has prepared for you and its a waste of time and money and a good way to get on the HO sh*t list. Once rejected likely to be rejected again and again is what I believe.

My solicitor doesn't have "the all copyrights reserved" of the cover letter since I am paying for his services. Besides, I was not trying to check out on his work. I was looking for a second opinion about the case and whether there is any other different routes to this case.
Last but not least, and for financial reasons, I don't personally believe that every solicitor would give an honest and viable opinion about any case.
I personally was never told at any point in time by my solicitor that it would take years for this case to be resolved. In fact, it was the other way round, I was led to believe that it would only take few months. But hey never mind we all learn from our mistakes.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts and time.

Best Regards

SYH
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Post by SYH » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:49 pm

weldsousa2007 wrote: My solicitor doesn't have "the all copyrights reserved" of the cover letter
Its called attorney work product but I think you can appreciate no one likes their work to put out their for public view unless notified that that will be the case.

weldsousa2007
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Post by weldsousa2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:28 pm

SYH wrote:
weldsousa2007 wrote: My solicitor doesn't have "the all copyrights reserved" of the cover letter
Its called attorney work product but I think you can appreciate no one likes their work to put out their for public view unless notified that that will be the case.
Thank you SYH for the clarification. I can't comment on solicitor's work for the simple reason that I'm not an immigration connoisseur, so I can't judge his work. Nevertheless, I know that I've got to fight my case by my own and look for loopholes to solve it.
Any suggestion on that?

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Post by ilm » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:04 pm

I can't blame you from trying to apply outside the rules or dream that there may be a loophole. We were exactly the same for 7 years. From reading this forum and other related information on the web it soon became very clear there weren't any and an in country application would be futile even though our solicitor at the time advised we make one. He also advised against returning to make an out of country application?

I have yet to hear of a successful, straight forward, in country application for an overstayer even though I have been assured there are some? It was also very clear that the waiting time was in years rather than the months that our solicitor advised. Your case seems pretty straight forward to me and although you solicitor has made what may appear a convincing argument, it is nothing more than clutching at straws.

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Post by weldsousa2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:22 pm

ilm wrote:I can't blame you from trying to apply outside the rules or dream that there may be a loophole. We were exactly the same for 7 years. From reading this forum and other related information on the web it soon became very clear there weren't any and an in country application would be futile even though our solicitor at the time advised we make one. He also advised against returning to make an out of country application?

I have yet to hear of a successful, straight forward, in country application for an overstayer even though I have been assured there are some? It was also very clear that the waiting time was in years rather than the months that our solicitor advised. Your case seems pretty straight forward to me and although you solicitor has made what may appear a convincing argument, it is nothing more than clutching at straws.
I presume you've had an in country application before the out of country one.
Could you tell me what was the outcome of that one? And how long did it take to get the decision?
I read somewhere that they will have to make a decision in no more than 3 years!! Is that true?

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Post by ilm » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:47 pm

No, we didn't bother submitting an in country one.

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