Fiance visa extent of documents of proof of relationship

[bronconilly100]

Hi,

It seems like such a grey area and I've been getting such conflicting advice - even from different solicitors!

The official line for the fiance visa is as below, and on the face of it presents no problem, bearing in mind as the sponsor I am exempt from financial requirements due to receipt of DLA, and my Vietnamese fiance is fluent in English and currently has a top job in a Hanoi bank. The potential problem is that in the 5 months we have known each other, all we have to document our courtship is a couple of romantic emails/phone calls, 5 photos together, evidence that we have spent time together both in UK and Vietnam and a recent phone call to a venue where we would like to have our post-wedding celebration. Is this enough? Can anybody shed a bit more light, please?

"Requirements for leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiance(e) or proposed civil partner (i.e. with a view to marriage or civil partnership and permanent settlement in the United Kingdom)
290. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiance(e) or proposed civil partner are that:
(i) the applicant is seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom for marriage or civil partnership to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; and
(ii) the parties to the proposed marriage or civil partnership have met; and
(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership ; and
(iv) adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse to public funds will be available for the applicant until the date of the marriage or civil partnership; and
(v) there will, after the marriage or civil partnership, be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and
(vi) the parties will be able after the marriage or civil partnership to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and
(vii)(a) the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant’s name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference)"

Any help appreciated!

[THO]

My wife is from VN. We had terrible problems getting any of the visas we got, so my advice is that you make sure that you send every bit of Whatsapp chat history, Skype chat, emails, all the photos you have together, and make sure you have the date stamp on the pictures when you take them from the phone. My fiance did this, she could do it with Apple, plus she has most of the pics.

Also, your passport visa stamps too. Hers and yours. There is nothing you can do to prove that you will get married when she arrives in the UK, especially since you can't apply for a wedding license until you fiance has been in the country for 8 days. You can get an official letter from the registrar's office, which comes from the HO, stating this. Get the person who is emailing it to you to sign it and put your names on it, to prove you tried to register to marry. Make sure you do a covering letter explaining why you have not booked a venue or made any more plans, since you can't for that reason, plus you don't know how long this process will take.

Some people have failed as they had the wrong or expired language certs, so ensure she has the correct documents.

Hope that helps.

THO.

[Casa]

Although you will be unable to book at date with the Registry Office for your marriage until your fiancee arrives, the ECO however will expect to see evidence of a wedding being planned. This would include quotes from wedding venues, wedding invitation cards, caterers etc.

[bronconilly100]

Although you will be unable to book at date with the Registry Office for your marriage until your fiancee arrives, the ECO however will expect to see evidence of a wedding being planned. This would include quotes from wedding venues, wedding invitation cards, caterers etc.

So, I have to make preparations for a wedding for which I have nothing close to a guarantee is going to take place

[THO]

No, you do not. Just like I said, write a letter and explain you can't make arrangements because you do not know when you can marry, and get the HO letter I told you about. Make sure you reference the HO letter in your cover note. Be very specific that you have tried to make some arrangements, but you could not, for the reason I explained.

In my case we were firstly refused for our visa, precisely because they said we had not proven we would marry. I wrote back and said how can I do that, it's impossible, and did you see the letter I sent which came from the HO. The letter says the HO will not ask for any proof that a wedding is arranged, since it is not possible to do, and so there is no need to do that! It is very clear. Obviously the idiot ECO that dealt with our case did not read this or was unaware of it.

The HO replied, you did not make an appointment with the registry office! I wrote back and said read the letter, I CAN'T..... And I said how would a meeting with the registrar prove a marriage will happen, it proves nothing. I told them I wanted to take the ECO to court. They buckled and gave us the visa, and said they would review the way they look at visas.

Just

[THO]

Obviously, you may wish to marry in a church, but they do not know that, so ring your local registry office. Ask them for an appointment, (go through the motions, pretend) they will say can't do it, and we will email you a letter. N.B. Ask for it to be signed and have your names on it, so it is clear you tried, even though you know it is not possible.

[Casa]

This would include quotes from wedding venues, wedding invitation cards, caterers etc.

My suggestion (which many have done) is to submit a quote (estimate) for the above, which doesn't require a specific date for the wedding, only that you have shown the intent to marry.

[bronconilly100]

Wow! I can feel the frustration! Seems like the system is designed to fail. I'm glad to get this advice. I only wish someone was around to give it to you @THO so you knew what you were dealing with from the start

[billybig]

Unless I misunderstand, then some of the things said here are not quite right. I booked a wedding for myself and my non-EEA fiance prior to applying for the fiancee visa. There is no need to be in the country to book a wedding, all they need are two names. There is, however, a need to do a notification of intent to marry when inside the country, which comes much later, closer to the wedding day.

Civil marriage ceremonies
Giving notice
You and your partner must give notice of marriage in your local Register Office, whether or not you wish to marry in that district. If you and your partner live in different places, you’ll both have to go to your own local Register Office to give notice. The Superintendent Registrar then issues authority for the marriage and you can marry in any Register Office or local authority approved premises in any district.

In England and Wales, 28 days notice must be given to the Register Office before the marriage can take place. You have to get married within 12 months of giving notice. Both partners must be resident for seven days in England or Wales before notice is given. A notice must state where the marriage is to take place. There is a fee for giving notice.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/famil ... g-married/

I however, had no problem booking the civil ceremony and got an email confirmation from them to confirm I paid £603 to arrange it. It included the wedding location and type, date and time.
Couple this with booking a few other things, like a photographer, food, reception location, videographer, band, florist, literally anything else which confirms the date and shows you've paid some kind of deposit.

I guess the only problem you may have now is that no weddings are being performed due to COVID-19. That may mean you can't book it any more.

With regards to other requirements, don't stress it. If you have everything in order you will get it. Financial stuff needs to be spot on - if it's not clear, add a covering letter. Make sure you include VAF4A appendix 2, with all financial data in here too. Finally for Whatsapp or other evidence, we included about 20 screenshots (over a three year period) from Whatsapp. Then screenshots of some gmail between one another (again 5-10 emails). Finally a 15 page (30-40 photos) photobook with pictures with dates. Photos with family, on holiday, with friends etc.. all of us together.

No problems and it got approved 14 days ago only....

[THO]

VAF4 form is ONLY relevant if the sponsor is not a UK national, so a settled person his or herself. I being British, did not need to do the VAF4 form. If you are Welsh (UK) by birth, and your fiance is from VN, you also will NOT need to do the VAF4.

But, as mentioned, do make sure you have financials spot on. If you are self employed, ensure the accounts comply and you will need the unaudited set done, even if you have no stock and it is simply a case of you do some work and get paid. Do not assume they will let you off those.

As for booking a wedding and paying £603, I am not sure what was paid for, since my civil ceremony was a lot less than that, we had our main ceremony later in VN. But if you pay for a wedding venue and a person to carry out the ceremony, and then do not get given the visa, you better be sure you can have a 100% refund, because the system is set up for people to fail. If I were the ECO I would put little weight on having that as evidence.

Another point I raised directly with the HO to combat their stupidity, was that far more convincing evidence that a marriage will actually take place was all the chat history (I know some people on here pick some pages in time, but we sent all of it and there was a lot, so figured if they want to read our secrets, fine let them) pictures of us together around the World, letters (with passport photos attached) from sisters, family, friends who knew the relationship was real and testified we were a real couple. Far harder to fake than just paying for something, which only proves she has money to spend to get her visa. An argument that is impossible to refute.

Good luck though and please do ask if you need anything and let me know how you get on.

THO

[billybig]

Well, that is a standard cost to booking registrars to visit another venue to perform a civil ceremony:
https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/births-ce ... mony-fees/
VAF4 Appendix 2 contains financial information not visible in the AccessUK form. Recently, applicants have had their application delayed and letters issued informing that they would like this form filling in. Therefore, I would advise you do this to avoid a delay. It takes not long as much of it is a copy of the AccessUK form, but some is not.
I'm not sure about you, THO, but when I am applying for the visa, I am assuming I will get it (obviously I know I am in a genuine relationship and have every intention to marry). If the visa is rejected, my last concern would be that I have lost £603, given that my greater concern would be how I am going to be together with my loved one for the rest of my life. I had no doubts that the visa would be accepted; all evidence is provided and no questions need to be asked.

Given that you yourself failed to get a visa, and your home office issued letter did not support your genuine intention to get married, and I have just been successful by using no home office letter and instead using a wedding booking confirmation, I would say that it does not carry "little weight" and instead carries a lot of weight. The reason yours was likely rejected is because you appear to have failed to properly research the marriage requirements in the UK.

I find it interesting how you claim the home office were acting stupidly, because they did not read your abundant chat history (you sent all of it... how many pages?). Surely it is far better to offer a selection of text; we are all aware the case worker does not have hours to trawl through your personal messages to prove to themselves that you are in a genuine relationship and genuinely want to marry. It is your job and yours only to prove this to them in a simple and quick manner. The fact that your visa was rejected simply means you failed to do this. I don't mean to come across as rude, but that is the whole purpose of the application system. If you are going to submit your application and hope for "Good luck" then you have done the application wrong, simply.