Is Divorce, Separation or merely living apart enough to justify curtailment?

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Is it possible to request an extension of an extension of the 2.5 year rule?

i.e. making the whole process deliberately longer. (7.5 years total)

I imagine many are in the same boat as me...
Met an exotic foreign wife while working overseas.
Honeymoon period lasted throughout courtship.
Married in order to get UK visa.
When the spouse arrives in UK.
Reality hits all concerned.
Dream life is not like it was imagined.

We have been together for 2 years.
Trying to make it work.
Seeing a relationship therapist, trying to work through our differences.
With limited success.

It would be nice to have more time.

[secret.simon]

Is it possible to request an extension of an extension of the 2.5 year rule?

No. It is not at the choice of the British/UK settled spouse.

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Thank you for your quick and decisive response.

So, this now leaves me in a quandary...
If we continue to live the way we are doing; it will all end in tears very quickly. In fact, I fear that immediately after the 2.5 year mark is reached she will abandon me to start a relationship with one of her many other suitors.

I love her and want to cherish her but I cannot do it under these circumstances.

How can I humanely end the visa process?
(Postponing it until we have found common ground)
With her temporarily returning to her home country.

Thank you for your response Simon.
This above question is open to all.

[THO]

I don't know your situation, so sorry if I am talking out of turn.

Why do you need an extension? After 2.5 years, if she goes off with someone else, you can tell the HO and she will not be able to stay in the UK. After the first 2.5 years you need to apply for an extension of 2.5 years and prove your relationship is real to receive it, then she can have leave to remain after 5 years with you.

However, and I know you don't want to hear this advice, I would say that if you are worried she is going to leave you as she has other men chasing her, and is doing nothing to stop them, is this relationship worth working on? Wouldn't you be best to let her go back at the end of 2.5 years if you have not worked things out by then? I personally found out that life is too short to be in a hard work relationship, it turned out far better for my ex and I to split.

If I were you, I would be worried about her claim on any property I have, or money in the bank etc. It would be far more difficult (probably impossible) for her to fight for anything if she was in her own country, it would be so expensive and unlikely she could afford it.

[physicskate]

I see from your handle that you feel the aggrieved party, but dangling a visa over someone's head - stay with me or I won't let you get that visa - is pretty abusive and coercive in and of itself. Do what is right for the relationship regardless of the visa situation. Please don't conflate the two issues.

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Hi Physicskate
Yes you hit the nail on the head (multiple times).
It is good advice. I absolutely do not want to hold her in a relationship she doesn’t want to be in.

Hi THO
I am grateful for your honest opinion and clearly experiences of a similar sort.
It’s so difficult to see things clearly when you are in love with somebody.

This is a Facebook Meme that I keep looking at because it helps me with my struggle:
Something I just recently learned was that chased love, is not love. If you have to run after it, talk it into staying, remind it of your value, fight alone for the both of you, issue ultimatums, or test it – it is not love! It’s not love, it’s not happiness, it’s not fair, it’s not healthy, the only thing it is… Is a waste of your time.

There is a further detail I have not revealed (as I didn’t want to complicate the post) but it seems you are willing to listen so I will confide in you.
She has the most incredible daughter (living with us). Together she and I studied for her GCSE exams and she passed with flying colours. She has now got herself onto an engineering course. I am so incredibly proud of what she has achieved despite living in a home where she is witness to domestic abuse and abnormal normalities.
In giving up on the relationship with my wife I imagine that I sentence them both to return to their home country and all the lack of opportunity that goes along with it.
I was hoping that just a couple more years would permit my stepdaughter to get an international qualification in engineering and a bright future.
But I’m in crisis everyday. I can’t take much more. I’m cracking.

[THO]

I feel for you, it is clear you are a caring man who just wants give and receive love, but now you have made it clearer that your wife is not in the same place as you, it will be hard for you to do but honestly it will get better.

Relationships are often complicated, but should never be unhappy for long periods of time, protect yourself first as it seems you have exhausted any chance of reconciliation and you would feel much worse if your wife ended up taking you for a load of cash as well as breaking your heart.

I don't know her either, so can't really judge, but it sounds like she saw you as her meal ticket and a way out of relative poverty, perhaps she thought she could grow to love you, or that she could be with you and be comfortable and so not worry that she was never in love truly. Her daughter is a concern of yours but, one day you will meet another woman and maybe have your own children together, do you want them to be poorer because you worried about someone else's child?

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Thank you THO. I would like to keep you updated on the outcome.

[THO]

Please do keep in touch. Sometimes it helps to be able to talk with someone who you don't know, because you don't want those that do know you to judge you or perhaps you feel embarrassed to talk with them about this situation.

It is always easier for someone who is not involved to say leave someone or do something, but the reality is often that the person who is receiving the advice wants to hear a solution that they have not thought of or a that they are doing the right thing.

When I was going through divorce, someone said to me, do I really love this person or are you just feeling sorry for yourself because you feel rejected or a failure because I couldn't keep my wife? When I thought about what he had said, he was right and so I moved on, it was much easier when I decided it was best thing to do. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me, we were not right for each other and neither of us was truly happy. Now I am with a beautiful woman and we are very happy together, and it will happen for you too.

[THO]

Hi,

How are things panning out?

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Hi THO Thanks for asking but...
I am really sad to report that things have become much worse since we last spoke and probably of no interest to other readers of this post.

Approaching Christmas my wife discovered that our 16 year old stepdaughter was taking contraception and she became crazy with anger and assaulted her physically. Pulling her hair out and leaving us all traumatized. The police are now involved and I have temporarily moved out of our home.

I didn't previously mention explicitly that my wife has been physically violent towards me since 2018 with increasing frequency, as I didn't think it important to this post, but now that our stepdaughter is being physically harmed too, I no longer feel the need to hide that fact.

This weekend there is a couples therapy session for my wife and I, but it looks like she is unlikely to attend. I hear your words THO but it is much easier said than done to move on from this situation. I'm still hopeful or resolution and a happy outcome.

Nonetheless, thank you for taking the time to ask me for an update. I will keep you informed how things progress from here.

I hope your festive season was happy and wish you all the best for this coming year.

[THO]

Hi,

Thanks for your good wishes. Yes, my holiday was fun thanks, and I am so sorry to hear about how things are going for you, it sounds terrible. It would be better to be able to take this off-line but I can't PM you yet since you have not made enough posts. Maybe post stuff on other topics until you get permission to send receive PM's?

I do so understand that you want to work everything out and so you can put all the upset behind you and live happily ever after, I get it. These things are not easy, but I know you will not give up until there is not an option left, and then at least you can say you really tried.

THO.

[CR001]

Hi,

Thanks for your good wishes. Yes, my holiday was fun thanks, and I am so sorry to hear about how things are going for you, it sounds terrible. It would be better to be able to take this off-line but I can't PM you yet since you have not made enough posts. Maybe post stuff on other topics until you get permission to send receive PM's?

I do so understand that you want to work everything out and so you can put all the upset behind you and live happily ever after, I get it. These things are not easy, but I know you will not give up until there is not an option left, and then at least you can say you really tried.

THO.

Posting to simply increase post count causes a members PM function to permanently be withdrawn/disabled.

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Hi THO
It's ok. Thanks for the idea nonetheless. I'm happy to post stuff online I'm keeping sensitive data like names and locations secret.

So here is a little update on my situation. Things have moved quite fast since Sunday.

Following a very effective session with the relationship counselor and a full day of talking with my wife and stepdaughter.

I'm back living in ______ under the same roof with ______ & ______. The police have spoken with all of us and my wife has accepted that her violent behaviour is not acceptable. If she reoffends they will prosecute without hesitation.

This leaves ______ and I feeling much safer to voice our opinions without fear of retribution. I feel we are in a much better place.

Far from perfect, we are on more solid ground and we are working towards working out how to at least sustain our relationship for the duration of their visa application.

The fact that I am considering staying in the same home will probably strike you as lunacy but I should remind you that I am head over heels in love with this crazy woman and just want to spend as much of my life as possible with her.

Due to trust issues and ghosts from her past, she is inflexible on the notion of me spending nights away from home. This attitude will place us in direct opposition during the following months as I would like to devote more time to my mother and her dementia (She lives in another town about 4 hours from me). I cannot rule out that this could make or break any agreements we establish.

In the meantime, thank you THO for your continued support. It's really nice to know there's someone out there in the virtual world that's got my back.
Cheers Brother.

[THO]

Well Abused, I am pleased you seem to have taken a step or two closer to resolving things happily. I will always tell the truth or say nothing at all.
My previous GF was also like that, all of her previous partners had cheated on her and and so she accused me of cheating every time I did not answer a text message within a few minutes. She was in Philippines, and I travel a fair amount to Asia and Americas so was not always easy to get hold of. Thing is, I couldn't live with being called a cheat and her fiery temper, so I had to eventually call the relationship off, nothing I said made her relax. She could not believe that all men are not pigs. She realises now it's too late that she was stupid, because her next BF cheated on her.

But I also realise that she wanted to be with me for one other reason, I could give her a nice life as a wife in a comfortable safe country. No money worries, and that also is something I don't want to be.

I hope progress continues to be made, I hope that soon she will realise you're a decent guy who is happy with just one girl, and settle down and learn to trust you. And I hope your guidance person can perhaps find a way to get through to her too.

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Dear Immigration Boards
I write these next paragraphs during the 2020 Corona Virus Pandemic. I wonder how history will look back on these surreal times and judge our actions.
Regarding general visa policy. Do you think the pandemic will affect governments attitudes towards migration.
I wonder whether my wife's work as a carer for disabled people during this time will provide mitigating circumstances for the extension of her visa, as she has proved herself to be a good citizen and placing the needs of others over her own health?

Hi Physicskate
I have kept your words at the forefront of my consciousness throughout this time.
They have helped me separate my relationship problems from our administrative problems and focus on each in isolation. Thank you

Hi THO
Thank you for your support and gentle words. Your empathy and understanding have helped me to discuss a matter that would otherwise have been difficult to reveal publicly.

My stepdaughter's engineering college has closed due to the Covid -19 threat.
Her tutors have predicted her grades and although an exam has not been sat, she has effectively passed this year's training.
She will be able to apply for an apprenticeship with aviation engineering companies in the autumn. I feel that I have crossed the finish line on assisting her to reach a brighter future.

Unfortunately my wife, despite her best efforts during the last 3 months, lost her temper with me and lashed out physically at me. On this occasion I managed to find the strength that had previously been elusive. I called the police, left the family home and have returned to London to live with my frail mother.
The danger to elderly people during this time made the decision a "no-brainer" and I am happy to say my 82 year old mother is safe and isolated.

I have seen a lawyer and we sent the following letter to my spouse.

"Dear Ms AbusedLovingHusband
My client Mr AbusedLovingHusband
I have been instructed to write to you by my client in respect of matters now that he has come to the conclusion that your marriage has broken down irretrievably.
My client will shortly instruct me in respect of divorce proceedings.
In the meantime I understand that when my client left the property on 28 February he left all his belongings there. He has asked me to propose that he arrives at 9.00am on 1 April to collect those belongings. Please confirm that is agreed.
He also proposes that you transfer to him £________ from the savings account to his personal account on or before that date.
I recommend that you obtain independent advice about the contents of this letter. In particular, I recommend that you contact a member of Resolution in your area. You will find details of them at www.resolution.org.uk or by calling __________.
Resolution members are normally specialists in family law and subscribe to a code of practice which is geared towards encouraging a constructive approach in all family matters. I confirm that I am a member of Resolution.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely My Solicitor"

Due to the current situation, we followed up with this >>

"Due to the current coronavirus pandemic my client has told me that he will be following government advice and will not now be collecting his belongings at the agreed time. In the meantime he asks that his belongings are kept in good order until such time as a different day for collection can be agreed.
He also asks that should you decide to permanently leave the premises in the intervening period, that you inform me as a matter of urgency."

During January we applied (using my supporting documents) for a Schengen tourist visa for my wife and daughter.
I now have a very real fear that they will abscond in the light of the marriage breakdown leaving me to pay credit card and any other debts in their wake.
The financial side worries me, but I am more worried that they will be living as illegal migrants going forward. I don't know what the best thing to do is.
Do you think I should inform the European authorities and bearing in mind the current situation, do you think I should tell the Home Office too?

Any assistance, by any reader, gladly received. But especially thanks THO for being a good friend. I couldn't see your perspective at the time I was blinded by love. Things are much clearer now. K

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Thank you, I read in this section immigration-for-family-members/breakdown-t293364.html that there isn't a great deal of difference between use of the:
"Public statement" if you don’t want the Home Office to tell your ex-partner any details from your letter
"Consent form" if you’re happy for the Home Office to tell your ex-partner details from your letter

But I'm wondering why they bother to offer the various options for reporting?

A) Given the choice of furnishing details with which your ex-partner can attack you
vs
B) Doing things confidentially

Why on earth would anyone choose option A ?

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Hi Immigration Boards
My marriage has broken down and I have moved out of our family home.

I have read the Curtailment Team Public Statement that says:

I, __________, confirm that my relationship with __________ no longer subsists, that I do not live with them and that I do not intend to live with them as my spouse or partner in the future.

Is that really enough to process a curtailment?
Surely applying for a divorce, dissolution, (judicial) separation or separation order would be necessary? (I don't know the difference TBH)

[CR001]

There is no requirement to be divorced first or send evidence of divorce/separation etc to be able to inform HO of the breakdown of the relationship. You simply need to complete the form and send it to HO.

[THO]

Hi Abused,

I am so sorry to hear it did not work out the way you had hopped, and tried so hard to work towards. It is never easy to end a relationship, and it is harder if you are married, not only because of the emotional feelings of failure, (and it is important that you stop yourself feeling that emotion as it is destructive, and you did not fail) but the whole divorce process can be costly and hard to understand. Where the law is involved and it is rarely as straightforward as it could be.

All the advice I can offer is to try to make sure you secure as much of any cash savings as you can and try to stop her from bleeding you dry by stopping the cards, tell the card issuers your situation, and say she is out of control, you no longer accept responsibility for anything spent by her from now on as you have warned them if they do not listen.

If you are on speaking terms at all, then you should try to explain to her that if you both work to sort it out with the least possible argument, you will be able to minimise legal costs, often these can end up being far more than the worth of the object being argued over, and I have seen some very expensive divorces where pride or a desire to completely ruin the other person, has left both parties (and any children) emotionally and financially far worse off. I personally know of one couple whose the legal costs came to close to £100K, and one of their children tried to OD as they fort for years.

You have not said which country she is from, but you should also inform the HO as I believe you are legally supposed to, and try to stop her from getting a Schengen visa too. You can explain to her it is your legal obligation, and so you do not have a choice. Mind you if she did abscond, that would make it impossible for her to seek a financial settlement.

I would say (and this is only an opinion that could well be wrong) that if her spouse visa is not renewed, she would be sent home and that is what is best for you, and I think it would then be very much harder (impossible) for her to try to take half the house or half of anything you have since she will not be able to afford legal representation, if she is from a poor country.

Legal costs for divorce are not covered by the govt in the UK, and contrary to popular belief, the each party does not automatically get 50%, its how good your lawyer is that decides your settlement. If she is in the UK, you will probably need to pick up at least some if not most of her legal costs, one way or another. If she is back in her country, she would be unable to make you pay for her representation.

Also, I think you will be able to get a divorce even if she does not sign the decree, after a 2 year gap you can apply unilaterally. So it does not matter if she is not here. Again, someone on here might know better.

You have done the best you can for her daughter, more than most men would do, and it maybe hard to let her go but she is in a good place to make her own way in the World.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel even if it is hard to see now as it appears a long way away, you will get through it though, it will become much easier and sooner than you think, you'll find that special person, and it will all become a distant memory.

Keep you chin up. Keep in touch.

THO.

[AbusedLovingHusband]

There is no requirement to be divorced first or send evidence of divorce/separation etc to be able to inform HO of the breakdown of the relationship. You simply need to complete the form and send it to HO.

Hi CR001
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

For the interest of other immigrationboards.com users and yourself, I will show you the response of a London migration solicitor I also contacted about the same matter:

Dear AbusedLovingHusband,
Thank you for contacting _______.
I understand you are a British citizen and have invited your wife and teenage daughter over from _______. As soon you started living together you had problems and had marriage counselling. In January you left the home and are now living with your mother in London and you have no access to belongings.
You have asked whether you have a duty to inform the Home Office about the marriage breaking down.
It is a matter for you whether you inform the Home Office about your marriage breaking down as there is no duty for you to do so. However, your wife and daughter will have a duty to inform the Home Office as it would seem that their leave is based on your relationship. Depending on the circumstances, their leave may well be curtailed and they will either need to leave the UK or apply for a new visa.
Next Steps
If you would like to discuss your immigration matter in more detail then we would be very pleased to advise you further at an initial consultation meeting.
A member of our administration team will be in contact shortly with details of my fees as a senior barrister. If you would also like our administrator to check availability for our mid range or junior barristers and their applicable fees, please let us know and we will be happy to assist.
Kind regards

[Casa]

Am I missing something here? Why would you need a Barrister? This isn't a court case.

[Obie]

Am I missing something here? Why would you need a Barrister? This isn't a court case.

I am quite puzzled by this also. Why on earth will you need that. It is rather your wife that should be concerned about that.

I think OP is getting to worry over matters that are of no importance to him.

He can choose to inform Home Office or not. But as he has no direct immigration case or matters, it is difficult to understand why he needs an immigration barrister.

[AbusedLovingHusband]

Ah! I understand the confusion now.

I am in contact with TWO solicitors.
1 = Family Law (For my divorce)
2 = Immigration Law (Just a preliminary enquiry)

I now understand. I do not need an immigration lawyer. Thank you.

[seagul]

Ah! I understand the confusion now.

I am in contact with TWO solicitors.
1 = Family Law (For my divorce)
2 = Immigration Law (Just a preliminary enquiry)

I now understand. I do not need an immigration lawyer. Thank you.

You also don't need family lawyer if the divorce won't be contested.