Settlement visa rejected - any advice would be appreciated!

[limeandlimpid]

My settlement visa was recently refused on a 320 (11) due to a 5 month overstay previosly
as well as 281(3)( lack of evidence since my husband and I last met which was two months before our application was submitted (though we had given them telephone bills for the same months after they seemed to have overlooked this?) ,
I overstayed in the UK for 5 months after appealing a rejection of ltr on a student visa in 2007. The reasons for this being my solicitors at that point of time lead me to believe they would appeal the court hearing further. After many calls to them, and many promises, three months later I was advised by others and uni that I should question this a lot more and not be in the country. I spent the next month trying to sort out my situation( aka meet with more immigration specialists and the works) which only led to me being given more bad advice until I cut my losses aka not get my rejection and overstay sorted and left the country with my now husband (who is a British national). Iv been in India since and working.He was here for three months after which he went back and we v in france and india again after that.
Any advice on how I can prove I did not significantly frustrate the law, what is acceptable evidence?

I was also wondering if anybody could advice me on how to proceed after this rejection. I submitted my application through an immigration lawyer here, who encouraged me not to give too much importance to explaining my overstay, and just mention it, so I feel the ECO perhaps thought I took it lightly, which I actually never have. I'm also not sure my overstay counts as seriously frustrating immigration law?
As for not taking into account my telephone bills I am not sure why they did this is.
In the Nationality section of the application they have put me down as Sri Lankan and the currency exchange is also Sri Lankan, I am not, and furthermore have never been there and have no family ties there, not sure how they could have got this wrong?
My thoughts so far on proceeding are, (again if anybody could offer me any advice/input on this I would be very grateful)

1) would it be wise to put in a fresh application, explaining in detail my overstay and how sincerely sorry I am, and of course giving in the extra evidence needed to show my marriage is subsisting (will they also come back with more reason for rejection?)
2) Put in an appeal which they could drag on for ages but on the plus the post may review it and send it back within a few weeks if myself , my husband and his family kept writing to them?
3)Write to the high commission, explaining my overstay in detail and asking them to kindly review it based on my explanation that I did not overstay with intent to illegally remain in the country or frustrate their law. As well as my husband and family writing to them personally saying my marriage is subsisting.
We have been together two years, lived together in London for about 8 months and in India for 3. I am very reluctant to put my application in through another immigration specialist, unless there is someone you can recommend?
Thanks very much in advance for everyone who replies to this.

[jaanabee]

hi limeandlimpid...

I am in the same situation - my partners visa was rejected

my partner entered uk illegally although this was not a problem and was not mentioned in the refusal letter (i cant understand how an overstay could b an a point to be refused on...if,like u sed u explained why,how,when etc)

I have a child with my partner and clearly stated the reason we did not marry in UK was fear of deportation...we included pics,cards,visas I had for his his country,proof of contact with registry office,British High Commission etc etc (however this was "no actual evidence of a subsisting relationship!!)

I definately recommend you stick with this and appeal instead of re-applying...the outcome cud be the same,plus u'de b paying the fee all over again!

they also incorrectly put my partners nationality as pakistani,when he has never been there or mentioned it anywhere in his application - translated birth certif and passport all included - how he managed to "currently live in pakistan" but apply from another continent I dont understand!...seems as this is a common error amongst ECO's!

I think you should research,find a lawyer you are comfortable with and put in an appeal. I have heard for the decision to be overturned at post is rare i was hoping for the same !

Keep all evidence of contact,take plenty of pics..witness statements,anything with ur names on...

good luck

[limeandlimpid]

Thanks for your reply Jaanabee. I hope it works out for you, the problem is the time apart isnt it!
We have decided to appeal, can anybody help me with what a suitable covering letter should be like to explain my overstay? My difficulty lies within, I have friends and my husband who were there and will provide witness statements, but as most of the info i got was over the phone or in person I just have no written way of justifying it.
And also how do I prove I did not seriosuly frustrate the law.... Again any help would be sincerely appreciated,
many thanks.

[republique]

My settlement visa was recently refused on a 320 (11) due to a 5 month overstay previosly
as well as 281(3)( lack of evidence since my husband and I last met which was two months before our application was submitted (though we had given them telephone bills for the same months after they seemed to have overlooked this?) ,
I overstayed in the UK for 5 months after appealing a rejection of ltr on a student visa in 2007. The reasons for this being my solicitors at that point of time lead me to believe they would appeal the court hearing further. After many calls to them, and many promises, three months later I was advised by others and uni that I should question this a lot more and not be in the country. I spent the next month trying to sort out my situation( aka meet with more immigration specialists and the works) which only led to me being given more bad advice until I cut my losses aka not get my rejection and overstay sorted and left the country with my now husband (who is a British national). Iv been in India since and working.He was here for three months after which he went back and we v in france and india again after that.
Any advice on how I can prove I did not significantly frustrate the law, what is acceptable evidence?

I was also wondering if anybody could advice me on how to proceed after this rejection. I submitted my application through an immigration lawyer here, who encouraged me not to give too much importance to explaining my overstay, and just mention it, so I feel the ECO perhaps thought I took it lightly, which I actually never have. I'm also not sure my overstay counts as seriously frustrating immigration law?
As for not taking into account my telephone bills I am not sure why they did this is.
In the Nationality section of the application they have put me down as Sri Lankan and the currency exchange is also Sri Lankan, I am not, and furthermore have never been there and have no family ties there, not sure how they could have got this wrong?
My thoughts so far on proceeding are, (again if anybody could offer me any advice/input on this I would be very grateful)

1) would it be wise to put in a fresh application, explaining in detail my overstay and how sincerely sorry I am, and of course giving in the extra evidence needed to show my marriage is subsisting (will they also come back with more reason for rejection?)
2) Put in an appeal which they could drag on for ages but on the plus the post may review it and send it back within a few weeks if myself , my husband and his family kept writing to them?
3)Write to the high commission, explaining my overstay in detail and asking them to kindly review it based on my explanation that I did not overstay with intent to illegally remain in the country or frustrate their law. As well as my husband and family writing to them personally saying my marriage is subsisting.
We have been together two years, lived together in London for about 8 months and in India for 3. I am very reluctant to put my application in through another immigration specialist, unless there is someone you can recommend?
Thanks very much in advance for everyone who replies to this.

Why would you be granted a settlement visa based on 2 months of minimum proof of a relationship?

[limeandlimpid]

hello republique!
we have already provided two years proof of relationship evidence, aka house lease contact, etc.... they rejected it saying we did not give any evidence of contact AFTER we last met,(two months between the time we last met and the application submission) though we DID given them phone bills for this time frame, along with all the other evidence before marriage (that they seem to have accepted). So they have overlooked some evidence, which we figure they cant do again if we give them a whole new pile showing that our marriage is subsisting. So to address the points of refusal, we were going to give all evidence we have after we last met till date of submission of appeal to prove that we are subsisting and have always been. Is this a good idea or should I include all the evidence of the last 2 years?
Thank You!

[republique]

hello republique!
we have already provided two years proof of relationship evidence, aka house lease contact, etc.... they rejected it saying we did not give any evidence of contact AFTER we last met,(two months between the time we last met and the application submission) though we DID given them phone bills for this time frame, along with all the other evidence before marriage (that they seem to have accepted). So they have overlooked some evidence, which we figure they cant do again if we give them a whole new pile showing that our marriage is subsisting. So to address the points of refusal, we were going to give all evidence we have after we last met till date of submission of appeal to prove that we are subsisting and have always been. Is this a good idea or should I include all the evidence of the last 2 years?
Thank You!

Your story doesnt make sense
Create a timeline of where you were and where your partner was over the last 2 year period because clearly you weren't always together at some point

[limeandlimpid]

Hi republique,

August 07 - We(My husband and I) meet in response to a flat share ad. We move in.
October 07 - We start our relationship plus I am appealing my rejection of
a student visa as well as in school
Novemebr 07 - I get my determination and ask my solicitors , what next. They say appeal further and they will do so. Call them alot over the next couple of months, no response, except an occasional, its all okay, we will call you asap.
December 07 - Same as above and my relationship is going well. So is school.
January 08 - We decide to move in together (aka give up my room). I am still calling these people, and asking more questions to various people including student services, still thinking im 'OK'
Febuary 08 - Dean asks to meet me regd referral work and my immigration problems, I tell her, she says Shes not sure I have right to stay and furthermore the uni cant support my situation, sorry.
March 08 - I go nuts trying to meet everyone and anyone (legal advisers) trying to figure out what to do, trying to get in touch with my baristet etc.
April 08 - Finally met a barrister who was straight with me, and said LEAVE you cant sort this out, its best to just leave
May 08 - I leave with plans for my husband to follow to India
June 08 - Husband follows and is here till October 08
October 08- Husband leaves as his money is running out and it is difficult to get a work visa here, so we decide to save a bit of money and get settled with work for a bit
Oct 08 - May 09- We speak everyday, email a thousand times a day.
June 09- We get together in Paris for 2 weeks and get engaged.
Sept 09- We get married, along with him and his family coming down. We also go one honeymoon for 8 days.
Oct 09 - We get together all documents for my applicatio
Nov 09- We apply
Dec 09 - We are rejected

And thats the story!Any thoughts....

[rinav]

My husband was refused spouse visa as he was an overstayer. I would say that your best solution is to appeal and fight the 320 (11) refusal. I dont see the point in a fresh new application. You need to submit the appeal within the 28 days - dont waste any more money on a new application.

[limeandlimpid]

Hi rinav, why Im thinking of a reapplication if it does not get overturned here is, the appeal process may take 6months -1yr.
I did not explain my overstay properly in my last application. My thoughts are if I explain it all to them, and try and add as much supporting documentation including witness statements etc , to prove I did not significantly frustrate the law (which by the guidelines on the ECG i did not do any of the things there!) perhaps they will reconsider. Any thoughts on this?

[limeandlimpid]

ps. So what is your husband doing with regards to his application? Waiting for the appeal? Did they review it here? May I ask how long he overstayed for? Did they reject it on any other grounds? As I am wondering if they have to substantiate using the 320 (11) with another reason based on the actually dependency guidelines
Many thanks.

[rinav]

My husband only became aware that he was an overstayer in May 2009 and he was detained and removed in July 2009. We did put a lengthy explanation for his overstay and they still refused the visa. They only refused under 320 (11) and because he couldnt be trusted they also said our relationship was not genuine. We sent tons of proof of our relationship, the maintenance and funds requirements was met. But as far as ECO was concerned he was an overstayer and thats all that matters. We have just sent our appeal on 14th December to AIT. I'm not an advisor but I think that you should appeal as its hard to argue 320 (11) at application. Get a good solicitor to battle it out in the appeal. If you can afford to apply again then you can appeal and put a fresh new application with your statement for the overstay. Personally I don't see the point in a fresh application - waste of money.

[mrlookforward]

if you have been refused on 320(11) then I am sure you will need expert help from a legal adviser. dont just take it as a diy project, because most likely you will fail.

[ElenaW]

if you have been refused on 320(11) then I am sure you will need expert help from a legal adviser. dont just take it as a diy project, because most likely you will fail.

agreed!

[limeandlimpid]

Thanks for all the responses out here. We really appreciate it. We have appealed with the help of a good solicitor, and our grounds of appeal look quiet weighty. Fingers and toes crossed it gets overturned here.Its been two weeks since we submitted and its still with the post... Does anyone know of instances where it has been overturned?
Many thanks again for all your previous responses

[prettypolitical]

Yes my hubbys was - original decision overturned by POST

[limeandlimpid]

thanks for the reply prettypolitical, wev just got our reply from the ecm today, and he said although he now concedes that our marriage is subsisting, he maintains his refusal under the 320(11). I was under the impression that they shouldnt really refuse under 320(11) unless another ground for settlement was not met. Any thoughts on this anyone?
Also I am wondering if trying to reapply will make a difference at this point?
We are struggling with ideas on what to do next/ if there is anything further we can do aside from the full appeal process, as the general impression is it could take 6months onwards! Yikes!!!

[limeandlimpid]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me out here,
I am really confused as to wether to put in a new application or wait the appeal out. Iv heard some really broad time frames for the appeal process
I am wondering if putting in a new application is a good idea, as we have met the main ground for a settlement visa as the ecm has conceded that the marriage is subsisting, but I have read that he cant use a 320(11) unless there are other grounds we have not met. My thoughts on this are if we give them everything and more, will they still reject it on a 320(11)
Any thoughts on this would be sincerely appreciated.

[seeking_advice]

[quote="limeandlimpid"]thanks for the reply prettypolitical, wev just got our reply from the ecm today, and he said although he now concedes that our marriage is subsisting, he maintains his refusal under the 320(11). I was under the impression that they shouldnt really refuse under 320(11) unless another ground for settlement was not met. Any thoughts on this anyone?
Also I am wondering if trying to reapply will make a difference at this point?
We are struggling with ideas on what to do next/ if there is anything further we can do aside from the full appeal process, as the general impression is it could take 6months onwards! Yikes!!![/quote


Could you please let me know where your matter is up to as I'm in the same situation as yours

thanks

[seeking_advice]

[quote="limeandlimpid"]thanks for the reply prettypolitical, wev just got our reply from the ecm today, and he said although he now concedes that our marriage is subsisting, he maintains his refusal under the 320(11). I was under the impression that they shouldnt really refuse under 320(11) unless another ground for settlement was not met. Any thoughts on this anyone?
Also I am wondering if trying to reapply will make a difference at this point?
We are struggling with ideas on what to do next/ if there is anything further we can do aside from the full appeal process, as the general impression is it could take 6months onwards! Yikes!!![/quote


Could you please let me know where your matter is up to as I'm in the same situation as yours

thanks

[sabeennaz]

I have also been rejected on grounds of subsisting marriage for settlement visa and am waiting for an appeal date. I and my solicitor will attend the hearing? do I need to answer alot of questions, and can my solicitor answer questions on my behalf?
Can you please explain how the appeal procedure works ? and what kinds of questions will be asked? will they ask only questions about the ones they have refused me for. Many thanks

[John]

sabeennaz, suggestion, such tribunal hearings are open to the public. That is, members of the public are entitled to attend. In fact they rarely do. There are no members of the public at most hearings.

But what I am saying is this ..... go along, before your day, and sit in on a few hearings. By doing that you will get a far better idea of the procedure than anything you can read on a board such as this.

[moma]

well did ur hubby leave before the 1st of 2008. cos there was a concession for people who had overstayed but left the country before the 1st of oct 2008. the overstay wouldnt be used against him. however if he was rejected becos he left after 1st oct.

john's advice is good go to a few hearings.

[limeandlimpid]

Hi everybody,
The appeal was on the 29th April, and the judge allowed it in 10 mins flat! He told us not to bother going into article 8 as the 320 (11) didnt even apply to us in the first place. The HO didnt show up ofcourse. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to advice us! Does anyone know what the waiting times are post this?

[sabeennaz]

i have major problem ive been married and stayed with my husband for 5 months and came bac to uk. i have been away from him since and its been 2 years.

he has been refused on lack of evidence of subsisting marriage for 2 years since my husband and i neither gave any text or contact evidence as we didnt know how to provide it and now we are waiting for date of appeal hearing.

my question is how do i show evidence for the 2 months if all i ahve been using is caling cards.

however, we did text and as i have pay as you go they only give outgoing text record of 1 year the most if i give £10.

my question is if i get the 1 year statement from vodafone of texts sent as its the only evidence of any conact i could give, then is that sufficient to show subsisting marraige bearing in mind i have been away from him for 2 years. plz help guys

[limeandlimpid]

Hi....
Did you send emails? Facebook messages? etc? A card or a letter? Put together everything and anything.
It will definitely help if there are texts Get those sorted, and does he have phone bills to reciprocate those texts
Also friends attesting that you keep in touch and your marriage is subsisting? If they can give sworn statements it will be a +
We had a lot of evidence as we text and phone and send about 50 emails a day so towards the end we had a lot, but we also gave supporting witness statements which could help.