Moving to EU for extended family

[blackeyed]

Hi All,

I am a British national and I am planning to move to Europe before Brexit date. My parents (72 & 65 years old) are non-eu nationals. Is it possible that parents can get long term or family reunion visa or dependant visa that allows them to stay with me on permanent or for longer time periods basis.

Thanks.

[blackeyed]

Hi All,

As my job is finishing here in UK, I have started looking for jobs in EU. Just wanted to check can I move and settle in any EU country before 31st Dec 2020? and is it possible to bring my non-eu parents with me? and which country is most generous for extended family visa.

[Zerubbabel]

Hello

The timeline seems a bit tight to me. But as a British, you can still move to an EEA country before the end of the year and apply for a residence card. Some countries are deploying specific Brexit process for British citizens. I was asking for a friend in France and they will be delivering from this Summer residence cards with the words "Withdrawal Agreement" on them because British passport holders won't be able to use EEA cards once the Brexit is finalised (same for EEA citizens in the UK. They have to use the EU Settlement Scheme).

It means as we are getting into 2020, EEA countries will give British people cards under local laws as Article 10 cards won't work beyond 31/12/2020. It's the same as what's happening in the UK. People are mainly getting Settled / Pre-Settled cards rather than EEA Article 10 cards (it's still possible to apply for one but it makes less sense at the moment).

Under EEA regulations, your parents are not extended family but simply family members. However, there is no "generous" country when it comes to elderly people immigration. Taken as a demography, they usually pay little or no taxes but incur major costs to the health system. So the equation is seen as the person paid 40 years taxes/contributions to country A then when old comes to country B to seek care. Therefore, you will find that immigration authorities have tendency to push back such applications.

It's not impossible, but they make it as hard as they can by delaying, refusing on technicalities... and pushing you towards costly routes such as JR and similar.

[blackeyed]

Thanks for your reply mate. I know old parents are considered a liability by most govts. The reason i am asking for a "generous" country is because i read on some discussion forum that Spain is quite difficult and try to obstruct as much as possible. What is JR? or other routes?
As moving a country is big task so was thinking if anyone can advice a little bit friendlier country. May be authorities will be happier to accept the application may be as their health system is private and no liability on their health board etc.

[Zerubbabel]

I know Spain is a pain.

Same for France. They use bureaucratic refusals in order to wear your patience and your finance. They push you to situation where you use solicitors then play more and more tricks until you find yourself deep in debt and fighting for years. They just good at that.

Try to find more information about individual countries but then again, you don't speak the language of all EU countries to establish yourself in any, find a job then bring your parents.

[blackeyed]

Ireland has the english language advantage, do you think Ireland could work out?

[CR001]

Ireland has the english language advantage, do you think Ireland could work out?

There is a specific Ireland sub forum and if you spend a bit of time reading some of the topics, you will see the massive difficulty in getting family there, it takes many months, often years, and many face repeated refusals. Ireland is also very expnesive. Ireland and the UK share immigration data and information too. Irish authorities are very aware, for a long time now, of newly naturalised British citizens going to Ireland to bring all their family that don't qualify for leave to remain visas in the UK.

[blackeyed]

Thanks mate. I will browse through topics on that forum.

[blackeyed]

One more quick query. If I move to EU country before 31st Dec 2020 then EU rules will apply to me and my parents or different rules? The reason I am asking is that I am genuinely interested in moving to EU and can definitely legally try to bring my family there.

[blackeyed]

Any reply guys pls. I have got an interview in Luxembourg and Ireland and if selected will decide (or wait) based on some guidance from here.

[ALKB]

Any reply guys pls. I have got an interview in Luxembourg and Ireland and if selected will decide (or wait) based on some guidance from here.

Are you planning to move indefinitely to the EU country?

[blackeyed]

Any reply guys pls. I have got an interview in Luxembourg and Ireland and if selected will decide (or wait) based on some guidance from here.

Are you planning to move indefinitely to the EU country?

Yes I am planning to move indefinitely. Hopefully if i move before 31st Dec then I can stay there.

[ALKB]

Any reply guys pls. I have got an interview in Luxembourg and Ireland and if selected will decide (or wait) based on some guidance from here.

Are you planning to move indefinitely to the EU country?

Yes I am planning to move indefinitely. Hopefully if i move before 31st Dec then I can stay there.

My understanding is that you can still move until the end of the year and apply for family members under EU rules.

Choose your host country wisely, as another move later on may be a lot more complicated or even impossible.

Which languages do you speak and what's your skill set?

Also, research the health system of the country you are considering. In Germany for instance, dependent parents from a third country can have the most tremendous trouble getting health insurance because the German system is not built for this particular quirk of EU free movement. Somebody who is not working, not receiving/eligible for benefits, not a student, not a refugee and not a child and who has not previously been health insured in a country with which Germany has a health cover treaty, is not somebody they imagined would exist when making the health insurance rules. Not only would health insurance be pricey, it would also be hard to be accepted into one in the first place.

[blackeyed]

Thanks for your reply mate. I am working as Java Developer in IT sector so most countries do have jobs. Thanks for letting me know about Germany health insurance, by any chance you know which country allows health insurance for non EU parents?

[blackeyed]

Sorry forgot to mention I speak only English but would be happy to take courses in any language as long as I can bring my parents here with me.

[QR0228]

Have you considered Estonia? I lived there for many years and its bureaucracy is far less scary compared to the horror stories that I read about Germany or Spain or even Ireland. It's also not too difficult to obtain a residence permit if you have a stable, well paid job. They're sticklers but it's far easier to deal with them because they are welcoming and given their small population, they actually need a lot of skilled workers. Since you work in the IT sector, there are probably plenty of jobs that suit your background there. I also never met anyone there who wasn't at least an intermediate level English speaker.

Your parents can eventually also get insurance through their national insurance scheme if they are your dependents and you have been insured for at least a year through your employer. You can check for more information here: https://haigekassa.ee/en/people/health- ... -insurance. It's the website for the Haigekassa, their national health insurance body.

All the best.

[blackeyed]

Thanks QR0228, I didn't have look at Estonia at all. I will explore that option as well.
So do we need to bring parents on Schengen visit visa first and then apply for residence dependent visa or we can directly apply from home country?

[QR0228]

I believe both options may work provided you get a valid residence permit for yourself first. People usually apply for residence cards there with the police, so this website has more information on temporary residence permits for non-EU family members: https://www2.politsei.ee/en/teenused/el ... amisoigus/

Also, this page is a fairly comprehensive - https://www.euraxess.ee/estonia/informa ... ts-estonia

My Egyptian parents got a long-term visa to visit me multiple times in Estonia (I'm not an EU national but I had a residence permit) but since they are not dependent on me and didn't wish to live there, we never applied for temporary residence.

[ALKB]

Thanks QR0228, I didn't have look at Estonia at all. I will explore that option as well.
So do we need to bring parents on Schengen visit visa first and then apply for residence dependent visa or we can directly apply from home country?

Easiest way is usually Schengen visa under EU rules (family member of EEA national) and then apply for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals within 90 days of arrival.

You'll have to abide by national rules, too, like registering your and their residence with the local authorities, joining the health system and whatever might be required for every resident including nationals of that country.

Btw, if the Luxembourg health system looks okay for dependent parents, I personally would be excited about going there, but then, I can sort of understand the language...

[Zerubbabel]

As ALKB said, I don't recommend Germany. I lived there for a while and was privately insured. They have a 2 tier health system with private and public insurance but as you grow older, it become more and more difficult (then impossible) to join the public health system. There are people in Germany, especially old people, paying more than 1000 Euros a month to get insured.

Most IT companies I dealt with in Europe would require a local language + English for Developers. English alone is usually not enough as all their internal communication, meetings, work... is in the local country language.

I am not believer in bringing them on a Schengen visa then apply for EEA. They are 65 and 72 year old. At this age, you don't want to engage them in an adventure with an uncertain outcome. It's not like when you are 21 and if you get outed from a country you try next one (being there). They might not be able to join the local health system until they get an EEA residence. I don't know a lot of of countries who would let a person joining the health system with a Schengen visa. That EEA residence may take years to come or may never come. Prepare for multiple refusals. During that time, they won't have access or only basic/emergency access to healthcare.

My take is they apply from where they are. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, they will still have their life, friends, family there. After all, they lived a combined nearly 140 years in their country, there is no reason why they can't stay there while an application is processed.

[secret.simon]

A video of how Germany's universal health-care system works (the intended audience is American and therefore primarily focuses on contrasting the German and American systems, but it should give you a broad idea).

There is a general expectation in most Western countries that healthcare is/should be free/discounted for people who have paid into the system and that people who have not paid into the system can/should have private health insurance (which is generally quite expensive).

If you work in IT, I would also recommend Estonia. It is taking a lead in many electronic and IT related developments, such as creating an E-residency. The flip side of it is that Estonian (and its cousin Finnish) are one of the few languages (the others being Basque, Hungarian and Maltese) in Europe that do not belong to the Indo-European family of languages and can therefore be difficult to learn. That may also make it more difficult for your parents in their day-to-day interactions.

[Zerubbabel]

Thank you for the video. Even if I was insured under the German system for a while, it never fully understood all its ramifications. But mainly there is a 2-tier system: public and private.

When people are young, the private is better. When they get old, the public system is cheaper. What German authorities don't want is people massively using the private system when they are young then all migrating to the public when they are old. It means the public system would collapse. So even for a German citizen, it's difficult, once old, to move to the public system. That's why you find old people with some specific history stuck in the private system and paying a lot. 2000 - 3000 Euros/month for an old couple is not abnormal. But again, the system, even the private, is not there to make money. It's rather a bucket and each participate depending on his demography.

For the OP, it means Germany and countries with similar systems are a no go.

[blackeyed]

Thank you for the video. Even if I was insured under the German system for a while, it never fully understood all its ramifications. But mainly there is a 2-tier system: public and private.

When people are young, the private is better. When they get old, the public system is cheaper. What German authorities don't want is people massively using the private system when they are young then all migrating to the public when they are old. It means the public system would collapse. So even for a German citizen, it's difficult, once old, to move to the public system. That's why you find old people with some specific history stuck in the private system and paying a lot. 2000 - 3000 Euros/month for an old couple is not abnormal. But again, the system, even the private, is not there to make money. It's rather a bucket and each participate depending on his demography.

For the OP, it means Germany and countries with similar systems are a no go.

These amounts are shocking 2-3K as single earning member of family, I won't be able to afford.
I really appreciate your feedback guys.

[blackeyed]

A video of how Germany's universal health-care system works (the intended audience is American and therefore primarily focuses on contrasting the German and American systems, but it should give you a broad idea).

There is a general expectation in most Western countries that healthcare is/should be free/discounted for people who have paid into the system and that people who have not paid into the system can/should have private health insurance (which is generally quite expensive).

If you work in IT, I would also recommend Estonia. It is taking a lead in many electronic and IT related developments, such as creating an E-residency. The flip side of it is that Estonian (and its cousin Finnish) are one of the few languages (the others being Basque, Hungarian and Maltese) in Europe that do not belong to the Indo-European family of languages and can therefore be difficult to learn. That may also make it more difficult for your parents in their day-to-day interactions.

Thanks mate, yeah I agree day to day dealing definitely will be difficult.
Is it possible to get EEA card (if I move to 31st Dec) from one country and then move to another country if things don't work out regarding job/housing/lanugage etc.

[Zerubbabel]

If you were a student living from a backpack and a suitcase in a shared accommodation, I would say yes you can go anywhere in Europe. It's matter of jumping in next train and voila!

But for what you are trying to achieve, I would say no.

You don't have time and resource to set the centre of your life in a country, then decide to move it to another. I understand your desperation but as I told you, I am not a great believer in your project. Authorities are really getting cautious in delivering visitor visas to parents / in-laws of naturalised citizens. There have been so many cases where once in the country, people drop an EEA application.

Chose your country wisely as it's not easy/cheap to move.