Universal Credit and Child Benefits

[bilallondon]

Hi,

i have ILR, my 2 child born outside UK and one in UK.

when i am filling UC they are asking all children information and partner information. they have LTR and not resources to public funds.

My question is do i entitle to apply UC and CB

regards,

[JB007]

Universal Credit: furthere information for couples.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... or-couples

My partner is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

My child is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

[bilallondon]

Thanks.

my understanding is child can't apply following three benefits if they are on immigration control. but we can add them into universal credit/.

citizen advice has following on their website

You can usually claim benefits included in public funds for your child if they’re subject to immigration control for benefits and services, but you’re not.

This doesn't apply to:

1). Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
2). the child and childcare costs elements of Universal Credit
3). Child Benefit – if ‘no public funds’ is a condition of your child’s stay

[JB007]

my understanding is child can't apply following three benefits if they are on immigration control. but we can add them into universal credit/.

citizen advice has following on their website

You can usually claim benefits included in public funds for your child if they’re subject to immigration control for benefits and services, but you’re not.

This doesn't apply to:

1). Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
2). the child and childcare costs elements of Universal Credit
3). Child Benefit – if ‘no public funds’ is a condition of your child’s stay

Your quote says you can't (number 2) if the child is subject to immigration control and you're not. But it also says to get immigation advice if you are thinking of claiming for them and then gives a link.

Universal Credit is made up of different elelents.

[bilallondon]

ok (number 2) child care cost is which person pay and get 85% back. its related to particular child. yes this type of not allowed .

and these three are direct child entitlement required

my experience they won't approve anything which person is not entitle to. if person apply for child care cost they will ask for evidence of child resource to public fund.

https://www.gov.uk/get-childcare

[bilallondon]

follow this and goto page 16

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... gov-uk.pdf

Child Benefit

The general rule is that no person subject to immigration control is entitled to Child Benefit (Section 115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, sub-sections (1) and (3)). However, a person who falls under one of the following exceptions cannot be denied Child Benefit on the ground they are subject to immigration control.

and then Exceptions for person subject to immigration control

if there is exception for other nationalities why not we.

my understand is that if the person is free from immigration control can get help

its not the child who apply its the parent apply with his/her right.

if you think otherwise help me know

thanks

[bilallondon]

here is right of settle person

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/indefinite- ... d-services

and there no such in child benefit eligibility section about subject to immigration control.

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit/eligibility

[bilallondon]

@CR001 can you look above and could you pls advice.

thanks

[JB007]

Universal Credit: furthere information for couples.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... or-couples

My partner is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

My child is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

I gave you these links to the government recommended sites. The NRPF site also refers to these organisations-

See also the specialist information and advice provided by the following organisations:

Citizens Advice website
Turn2us website
https://nrpfnetwork.org.uk/information- ... s/benefits



On the link to the Citizens Advice I linked above, it also states-

You won’t be told if a benefit or service is included in public funds when you apply, so it’s important to check for yourself.

and

You can usually claim benefits included in public funds for your child if they’re subject to immigration control for benefits and services, but you’re not.

This doesn't apply to:

Disability Living Allowance (DLA)

the child and childcare costs elements of Universal Credit

Child Benefit – if ‘no public funds’ is a condition of your child’s stay

Get immigration advice before you try to claim one of these benefits


It's a personal choice whether to apply for benefits, or not to.

[bilallondon]

JB

i dont know how u get information just spoke to citizen advice they confirm me that i the person free from immigration control can apply.

she also confirm the only way to confirm to apply if you are eligible you will get otherwise not.

its simple

[JB007]

JB

i dont know how u get information just spoke to citizen advice they confirm me that i the person free from immigration control can apply.

I got it from the citizens advice link that I gave you; the same link you have already quoted from above.

she also confirm the only way to confirm to apply if you are eligible you will get otherwise not.

its simple

Did you point out that's not what their site says? Again,-
You won’t be told if a benefit or service is included in public funds when you apply, so it’s important to check for yourself.

Benefit staff are not immigration experts. It's up to you to make sure that you do not take what you are not allowed.

The UK have brought in lots of welfare benefit changes under the Welfare Reforms.

It's completly your choice what you do.

[JB007]

just spoke to citizen advice they confirm me that i the person free from immigration control can apply.

Are you sure you rang the right organisation? CA have long queues to speak to somebody and you seem to have done so in minutes: and the information you said they gave you, does not match what is on their site.

[bilallondon]

Benefit staff are not immigration experts. It's up to you to make sure that you do not take what you are not allowed.

It's completly your choice what you do.

first you said take immigration advice now you are saying up to you.

Are you sure you rang the right organisation? CA have long queues to speak to somebody and you seem to have done so in minutes: and the information you said they gave you, does not match what is on their site.

got the reference no and email of chat, explain all in detail even send them links.

why you can't get advice from them as you are advising lots of people might miss their right and kids live in poverty as u are giving information just based on website. but u just overlook gov website eligibility criteria .

[JB007]

first you said take immigration advice now you are saying up to you.

I quoted and linked from the Citizens Advice site, which said -
Get immigration advice before you try to claim one of these benefits

I've posted you the links in response to your questions and it is your choice what you do.

why you can't get advice from them as you are advising lots of people might miss their right and kids live in poverty as u are giving information just based on website. but u just overlook gov website eligibility criteria .

Not sure why your children would be in poverty when both parents can work? Even the UK's Welfare Reforms now requires both benefit claiming parents to work (unless there is an exemption).

[bilallondon]

Not sure why your children would be in poverty when both parents can work? Even the UK's Welfare Reforms now requires both benefit claiming parents to work (unless there is an exemption).

its not about my children's so many people looking open forum. when gov. website confirming eligibility criteria there can't be two laws. the welfare benefits for people to improve their and their family lives.

I quoted and linked from the Citizens Advice site, which said -
Get immigration advice before you try to claim one of these benefits

my question was clear if you have any reference that person with free from immigration can't apply those other than CA let me know i refer you two below is policy from HO and one eligibility from gov.

did you actually read the policy, did you find anything regarding person free from immigration rule. i did not find one if you find anything let us know.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... gov-uk.pdf


-----------------
for your information they send me following two links which states state policy.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benef ... d-benefit/

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benef ... d-benefit/

[JB007]

its not about my children's so many people looking open forum. when gov. website confirming eligibility criteria there can't be two laws. the welfare benefits for people to improve their and their family lives.


my question was clear if you have any reference that person with free from immigration can't apply those other than CA let me know i refer you two below is policy from HO and one eligibility from gov.

did you actually read the policy, did you find anything regarding person free from immigration rule. i did not find one if you find anything let us know.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... gov-uk.pdf


-----------------
for your information they send me following two links which states state policy.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benef ... d-benefit/

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benef ... d-benefit/

That page seems to be for those who are not NRPF. What did they say when you pointed out this page of theirs to them?
Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/



I think you have the wrong idea about UK welfare benefits; the UK government have made it quite clear that working is the way out of poverty. And to that end -They reduced the benefit payments so that people are not better off by not working/working much; both parents will have to work; a benefit cap was brought in if they don't work; those using self employment to avoid work now have a minimum income to earn each week and their benefits are based on that when they don't make that money; up to 3 years benefit sanctions for some benefits

And then in 2015... they announced the 2 child limit for UK benefits Universal Credit, Tax Credit, Housing Benenfit and annouced in parliament that some EU countries would now give more benefits money than the UK.

[JB007]

..a benefit cap was brought in if they don't work; those using self employment to avoid work now have a minimum income to earn each week and their benefits are based on that when they don't make that money; up to 3 years benefit sanctions for some benefits

And then in 2015... they announced the 2 child limit for UK benefits Universal Credit, Tax Credit, Housing Benenfit and annouced in parliament that some EU countries would now give more benefits money than the UK.

And when covid hit and the goverment put a temporary stop on the MIF(Minimum Income Floor) for the Self Employed, some of these then got caught by the benefit cap.

[bilallondon]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

the above link you share for someone "Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control" not relevant

I think you have the wrong idea about UK welfare benefits; the UK government have made it quite clear that working is the way out of poverty. And to that end -They reduced the benefit payments so that people are not better off by not working/working much; both parents will have to work; a benefit cap was brought in if they don't work; those using self employment to avoid work now have a minimum income to earn each week and their benefits are based on that when they don't make that money; up to 3 years benefit sanctions for some benefits

And then in 2015... they announced the 2 child limit for UK benefits Universal Credit, Tax Credit, Housing Benenfit and annouced in parliament that some EU countries would now give more benefits money than the UK.

lol everyone knows that nothing new.

if you can't advice with reference from policy then you are wrong.

@CR001 if you can comment on this post pls.

[JB007]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

the above link you share for someone "Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control" not relevant

You know that is not true: you have already quoted from this same link, above

citizen advice has following on their website

You can usually claim benefits included in public funds for your child if they’re subject to immigration control for benefits and services, but you’re not.

This doesn't apply to:

1). Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
2). the child and childcare costs elements of Universal Credit
3). Child Benefit – if ‘no public funds’ is a condition of your child’s stay

And again here by me from that same link, adding the bits you missed out of your quote.-

On the link to the Citizens Advice I linked above, it also states-

You won’t be told if a benefit or service is included in public funds when you apply, so it’s important to check for yourself.

and

You can usually claim benefits included in public funds for your child if they’re subject to immigration control for benefits and services, but you’re not.

This doesn't apply to:

Disability Living Allowance (DLA)

the child and childcare costs elements of Universal Credit

Child Benefit – if ‘no public funds’ is a condition of your child’s stay

Get immigration advice before you try to claim one of these benefits


It's a personal choice whether to apply for benefits, or not to.

[JB007]

why you can't get advice from them as you are advising lots of people might miss their right and kids live in poverty as u are giving information just based on website. but u just overlook gov website eligibility criteria .

Just too be clear here; I am not advising anyone: I merely gave four links, then pointed out that you had misread the quote from one of those links. You can read for yourself what they advise as you are responsible for what welfare benefits you claim.

If you can prove that any error in payment was an admin error from the relevant benefits department as you told them your spouse and children were NFPF, then that will not affect their visas, but that money will still have to be paid back to the welfare state.

Or you could just take specailist immigration advice before you claim, as recommended on the turn2us link and citizens advice link I gave.

Universal Credit: furthere information for couples.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... or-couples

My partner is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

My child is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

[JB007]

If you can prove that any error in payment was an admin error from the relevant benefits department as you told them your spouse and children were NFPF, then that will not affect their visas, but that money will still have to be paid back to the welfare state.

Or you could just take specailist immigration advice before you claim, as recommended on the turn2us link and citizens advice link I gave.

From the-
Immigration staff guidance for how to make decisions about what UK public funds foreign nationals can claim and what action it must take if they claim funds they are not entitled to.

Page 34
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds

It is not always appropriate to refuse an application for permission to stay on the basis thata person who is subject to an NRPF condition has accessed public funds. An application for permissionto stay should not be refused if:
•an applicant has received public funds asthe result of an administrative error.
...

However, from the benefits agencies stance, they expect the claimants to read their benefit award letter/online claim and state on the claims that the claimant must advise if there are errors on their claim being paid. They can recover this money decades later if needs be. Altering their tax code to recover the debt or taking this money out of benefits they are stilll claiming (including state pension) usually gets a respose to any ignored debts owed letters.

Or you could just take specailist immigration advice before you claim, as recommended on the turn2us link and citizens advice link I gave. I'm not a specialist immigration advisor.

[bilallondon]

well. i would only say to you this as per my understanding

if person subject to immigration control & directly claim this policy will apply to them.

i already taken immigration advice from CA do not worry.

i did not missed anything as no one can take anything unless they are entitle to.

but pls as u are advising people why not get proper immigration advice on it and give with reference.

[bilallondon]

from you page 34

a sponsor needs to claim more public funds to support the applicant, but these
are funds to which the sponsor and dependant would be jointly entitled - for example, if the increased funds fall under the tax credits regulations, such as Working or Child Tax Credits, then you must not regard the applicant as having accessed public funds

you overlook this

[JB007]

from you page 34

a sponsor needs to claim more public funds to support the applicant, but these
are funds to which the sponsor and dependant would be jointly entitled - for example, if the increased funds fall under the tax credits regulations, such as Working or Child Tax Credits, then you must not regard the applicant as having accessed public funds

you overlook this

You are not claiming the welfare payment called Tax Credit. Tax Credit has ended for new claimants and these are two of the six benefits replaced by the one welfare benefit called Universal Credit. Universal Credit has a lot of different rules and regulations.

If you could have claimed Working Tax Credit (which you can't because Tax Credit has ended for new welfare claimants) Tax Credit would have allowed extra benefit money for your NRPF wife under that Second Adult Element; if your joint income was below something like 18k and you had a child. As there are still exisitng claimants of Tax Credits, atm, the Home Office guidance allows for these as they are allowed this Public Funds under these circumstances and are not in breach of their visa.

The replacement benefit; Universal Credit; does not allow you to have extra benefit money for your NRPF wife. Did you read the link I gave you in my first post on this thread? The gov.uk link? That tells claimants how to claim Unversal Credit and link their NRPF partner to their claim? That is how UC links a partner, even those who are NRPF, as you cannot claim you are single when you are not. However for those with a NRPF partner, their partner's earnings and capital are used in their claim but they cannot have extra benefit money for their NRPF partner. Have a read of the link.

Did you read the turn2us link I gave too? The one about having a partner that was NRPF when you are not and when you want to claim Universal Credit ? That's an important read for your NRPF wife too becasue Universal Credit also replaces Housing Benefit for those of working age/those who has a partner of working age.

[JB007]

but pls as u are advising people why not get proper immigration advice on it and give with reference.

Again, I have given the links in your thread.

Universal Credit: furthere information for couples.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... or-couples

My partner is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

My child is a person subject to immigration control
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

Accessing UK benefits and services if you’re subject to immigration control
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

I gave you these links to the government recommended sites. The NRPF site also refers to these organisations-

See also the specialist information and advice provided by the following organisations:

Citizens Advice website
Turn2us website
https://nrpfnetwork.org.uk/information- ... s/benefits

Perhaps you could read your thread again and read the links provided?