Citizenship Application: NI resident, what happens after DAT1 / PSNI clearance?

[razzle_dazzle]

UPDATE: I got my letter from PSNI like next day!! incredible!!
I have a couple of quick questions:

1) In it says "This document does not constitute a certificate of good character nor is it suitable for the purposes of vetting/child protection and employment". So, is this letter still ok to send as further proof of good character for the citizenship process?

2) Does anybody know the physical address that this should be sent to? As you see from my comments before, I wrote to the 2 email addresses stated to request information about my application, but I haven't received any reply yet. Should I wait until I hear back from them about the address?

Thank you in advance for any info anybody can provide!

[chriswickstead]

Hi Razzle,

1) That seems to be the standard wording of the DAT1. As it is basically a simple criminal record check it would not be valid for example for working with children/vulnerable members of society. I think that is what the letter means as that sort of employment would require an AccessNI check which is more detailed than just looking at criminal records.

2) We were given this address to send my wife's DAT1 letter to :
Citizenship – Registration Unit
Department of Justice
Rosanna Road
Tipperary Town
Co. Tipperary
E34 N566

Make sure you include Application ID and state that you live in NI and had evetting rejected etc. Also i would advise to send the letter recorded delivery.

In my wife's case we sent the DAT1 after completing the eVetting link in May. The eVetting was then completed and review (it was not deemed ineligible, despite living in NI). After that review they then asked in September for a DAT1 letter (despite the fact we had already sent one months previously.) To date we have not received the approval letter. So unfortunately i will say don't get your hopes up that this will kick anything into action any time soon.

[razzle_dazzle]

Thanks for the info @chriswickstead!
I will prepare an envelope and make sure I also have copies of these documents before putting on the post.
I would have thought your application was already sorted! I read some of your earlier posts and it all seemed to be progressing ok (although, as you say, who knows). It's awful that the only thing they do is send a general email every 3 months apologising for their slow and poorly organised way to deal with applications.
Anyway, I guess at this rate the ceremony won't be until next year for me!
Good luck and thanks again.

[Geor]

UPDATE:

JUST RECEIVED EMAIL FOR ATTENDANCE TO DECEMBER 18th CEREMONY IN DUBLIN

[razzle_dazzle]

congratulations! that is fantastic!
In my case, I continue stuck in the neverending evetting conundrum. Since they requested another evetting on 3rd November 2023, they sent me another message stating that my 2nd evetting was ineligible today 12th December 2023, but this time they cited as reason that they took so long to go through this that I need to submit yet again another one. I just submitted the 3rd evetting in their system. I honestly cannot understand why are they so inefficient! This is pretty much 8 months stuck in the evetting step.
I already sent a physical PSNI DAT1 letter to them in November by registered post. I haven't heard back from that either.
I never got a reply from my enquiries about my case which I wrote to them in November (nearly 1 month ago) to 2 different emails I found. I am sincerely losing hope in this. This whole process is quite ridiculous!

[chriswickstead]

Finally received the approval letter today. Was posted 8th Dec, arrived Belfast 14th Dec...with a cut-off of payment 12th Dec for the next ceremonies....They had all the extra forms they wanted since mid October.

Absolute torturous process. At least we know this is nearing the end now.

[chriswickstead]

On a side note...my wife's passport is now a few weeks out of date. The acceptance letter asks for a scan of 'current' passport. To me the passport is still valid as an Identification document (but not as a travel document).

Anyone have any experience of this if it is deemed acceptable for this or not? We will miss the ceremonies next week anyway. But will need to go to London to get a new passport in January in any case.

[honda99]

My wife recieved her citizenship cerermony to attend @3pm on the 18th, she got the approval letter in Belfast on the 12th so we payed it then and uploaded picture and documents, she got the email this morning, lucky the letter got delivered on the 12th or else would of been more waiting.

I presume she is ok to travel to Dublin even though ordinarily she would need an Irish tourist visa to travel down south which she doesn't have?

[Vadrar]

My wife recieved her citizenship cerermony to attend @3pm on the 18th, she got the approval letter in Belfast on the 12th so we payed it then and uploaded picture and documents, she got the email this morning, lucky the letter got delivered on the 12th or else would of been more waiting.

I presume she is ok to travel to Dublin even though ordinarily she would need an Irish tourist visa to travel down south which she doesn't have?

Technically, it’s not ok, if she is a visa required individual - she should have a visa. Flying would likely be an issue. Very occasionally I’ve seen immigration checks on coaches between Belfast and Dublin (though I think it’s in relation to searches for specific people rather than general immigration spot checks. And if people said they were British or Irish the officers simply moved on down the coach as they can’t be required to show ID, as I understand it.) If she is driving chances are no-one will ask. And technically she doesn’t need a visa on the route back as she’s Irish by then, even though she can’t really prove it until cert arrives. So technically yes she needs a visa on way in, but in practice I’d be surprised if she is checked as long as she isn’t flying.

[Geor]

My wife recieved her citizenship cerermony to attend @3pm on the 18th,

Congrats, same as me... see you there ... kind of!

[irynawlsn]

I applied in July 22 and was advised inelegible for evetting in Aug 23, due to never having lived in the south. Despite the generic email in Nov 23 stating that most 2022 applicants would be finalised by the end of the year, I have heard nothing more since August and it is now nearly March. I sent a recent DAT1 with letter last week but am not hopeful of a reply. Just wondering if others have had a similar experience and are still waiting for any movement. It's the stop/start aspect of it, with huge gaps in between, which is the most frustrating aspect of the whole process.
Thanks for any feedback.

[chriswickstead]

Hi Irina,

My wife and I live in NI and she applied for naturalisation in Feb 2022. (They didn't start the file until Aug 2022).

I posted above about the whole evetting and DAT1 process and requests above in this topic.

If they do the same for you I expect they will ask you for another DAT1 at some point.

It seems to me that don't slowly progress files every day, but rather have huge shifts in focus to get a batch of files through a specific step in the process. Which is why we hear nothing for months on end , and then there seems to be some activity.

This is an awful process to be involved in and you have my sympathy. For my wife we finally got the approval letter in Dec 23, too late for the ceremony that month. And then no invite for the Feb 2024 ceremony.

If i were you i would set my expectation to have this process complete by the end of 2024. Any thing else risks disappointment.

[irynawlsn]

Hi Chris
Many thanks for the informative comments. It all makes a lot more sense now, especially your explanation of the stop/start aspect of the process. I had no idea that one can wait for months even after approval, just to get a ceremony invite. I hope your wife manages to finish with this totally shambolic process in the very near future. Cheers.

[irynawlsn]

PS Perhaps you could keep us informed Chris as to when your wife finally gets a ceremony date?

[razzle_dazzle]

Dear all, it has been months since the last time I checked this. So an update in my case.
I have lived in NI since Sept 2018, but lived in other UK areas for a few more years before that. I am a non-EU national married to an Irish citizen.
So my summary timeline updated is:
- April 2022: submitted my paper-based application
- August 2022: received a letter from Dept of Justice acknoweldging application was received and enclosing a fee receipt. This is the first and only paper correspondence I have ever received from them. In it, it had the Person ID number and Application number.
- May 2023: I received an email inviting to submit evetting. Filled the evetting form online and submitted the next day or so.
- August 2023: I received an email saying that my eVetting submission was deemed ineligible because I was residing outside of the State. No further explanation or asking for other stuff.
Since I knew nothing else except that it was deemed ineligible I waited. I waited for ages as no one told me that there was a DAT1 form that I had to request from PSNI. (the system is so uninformed, it is nowhere in their websites).
- 3rd November 2023: I received ANOTHER eVetting email/invitation again!!! looking very much like the one I received in May, except that it had a different team (Team CMUA instead of CMUB).
- 16 november 2023: I stumbled on this very informative chat where people already knew that they had to submit a DAT1 form info from PSNI to continue the process.
- 16 November 2023: I sent my filled DAT1 form by email to PSNI to request my info.
- 17 November 2023: PSNI replied that it is going to take 1 month to send me the info!
- 18 november 2023: Received PSNI DAT1 form by post.
- End of November 2023: sent PSNI DAT1 form by post.
- 23 november 2023: I tried to fill again and submit another evetting form
- 12 December 2023: I got an email that my evetting invitation that I had filled in again in 23 Nov and submitted had timed out
- Sometime in January 2024: I received a letter by post from Citizenship Ireland confirming they received my evidence (I presume the DAT1 form?)
- 30 January 2024: I received a reply about my enquiry from 17 November (so 2 months and a half after I emailed enquiring about my case).
- 1 February 2024: I received another invitation by email to do evetting, this time from the Garda Siochana website, which I completed and sent on the same day. I suspect I was sent this because I lived in the ROI for a couple of years as a student before I moved to the UK.
- 9 February 2024: I received an email stating that my vetting has been completed and result has been forwarded to Citizenship team.

I have not heard anything else since (I write this on 12 April 2024). I thought my case should have been decided by now after the vetting process? This truly takes forever, makes me wonder what is the point?

Meanwhile, in all this long wait, I became eligible for British citizenship. After gathering documents and requisites which took me roughly about 1 year doing here and there, when I had the time, I applied for British citizenship in December 2023. I have received a positive outcome for my application at the end of March 2024! literally 3 months. My ceremony will be in May.

[AHC01]

Just a side note on this topic, as I also live in NI. The Irish Citizenship Law makes it clear that Irish citizenship can be revoked if the person also gets citizenship by naturalisation in another country.

Does this actually happen? How can it affect someone that hasn’t received an approval for the Irish one but applied for a British one?

[Vadrar]

Just a side note on this topic, as I also live in NI. The Irish Citizenship Law makes it clear that Irish citizenship can be revoked if the person also gets citizenship by naturalisation in another country.

Does this actually happen? How can it affect someone that hasn’t received an approval for the Irish one but applied for a British one?

It’s not clear how often citizenship is revoked because another citizenship has been taken. So it’s likely rare.

If British citizenship is granted before you attend the Irish citizenship ceremony you’d be fine. If you’re getting Irish by naturalisation other than association first and your later British isn’t by marriage the potential for revocation exists. At the moment I’d say chances are low, but not none.

The issue is that policy attitudes can change- there are examples in other countries where eg multiple citizenships were technically not allowed but routinely ignored and then suddenly weren’t. The fact that the Irish have gone to the effort of passing legislation to make it possible is important to recognise though- legislation takes effort and time and so it isn’t done for no reason.

The typical recommendation for NI SIN residents is to complete British first then apply for Irish.

[irynawlsn]

Given the long, tortuous and frustrating process to obtain Irish citizenship, I can see the initial attraction of going for a UK passport given that it seems to take just a matter of months. I will try to wait it out in my case, for the moment, since it seems to me at the end of the day that Irish citizenship conveys exactly the same rights as a UK one, re living and working in either country, BUT has the added advantage of being an EU passport, with all the benefits that comes from that, re travelling, living, working,etc, in Europe.

[chriswickstead]

For a spouse of an NI-born (& NI resident) Irish citizenship is possible after 3 years versus UK with 5 years. So in theory 2 years quicker. In practice however this is not the case due to Irish citizenship process taking so long.

[Vadrar]

Given the long, tortuous and frustrating process to obtain Irish citizenship, I can see the initial attraction of going for a UK passport given that it seems to take just a matter of months. I will try to wait it out in my case, for the moment, since it seems to me at the end of the day that Irish citizenship conveys exactly the same rights as a UK one, re living and working in either country, BUT has the added advantage of being an EU passport, with all the benefits that comes from that, re travelling, living, working,etc, in Europe.

The Irish passport is more powerful now than the British passport in overall terms.

Excluding EU FoM, the British retains some slight benefits. It isn’t revokable if naturalised citizens move out of UK or take another passport. It would retain access to UK if Ireland unifies (as Irish would to Ireland.) It qualifies for a US Global Entry pass. But whether any of these factors are important or relevant will be highly individualised. Irish citizenship is valuable and desirable, and for many now, Brit citizenship doesn’t equal it.

[lilberto]

Hi folks,

I thought I'd offer my own update in this Northern Ireland-specific thread.

Today my non-EU spouse received her approval letter and request to pay the fees. Our previous interaction in the application process was the submission of the DAT1 NI police clearance cert back in Feb 2023 and we had no additional correspondence nor mention of the eVetting prior to receiving the approval letter. I've shared our timeline below for clarity:

Application Based On: Spouse of an Irish Citizen (Non-EU)
Applied Date: 16/01/2023
Acknowledgement Date: 25/01/2023
Northern Ireland Police Clearance Certificate (DAT1): 08/02/2023 received by DoJ
Approval: 29/04/2024 (letter dated 26/04/2024)
Date of Ceremony: Pending

As mentioned by others, there is no pattern or logic to peoples' individual timelines or being contacted for eVetting or not to those who reside in NI. Best of luck to us all!

[lilberto]

After approval and when paying the fees using the online form, it asks for applicant's IRP number and expiry date. As an NI-resident with no IRP, it doesn't allow me to enter "n/a", it only allows numbers - what have others from NI done for this? Thanks.

[chriswickstead]

Hi Liberto,

I can't remember exactly what we entered but I would have put something that fitted the character rules that was obviously 'wrong' e.g. Z's/9's for IRP number, can't remember if it was just numbers or letters as well. 01/01/2999 etc for date. When it asked for a scan of the IRP we uploaded my wife's UK BRP instead. This was all accepted and processed.

[AHC01]

Just to add my two cents here. On the 19th I received an email asking me to complete the Garda vetting. On the 23rd we told them that I shouldn't do it as I'm NI based. On the 25th they replied saying that it's true, I should not do the Garda vetting and my application will be furthered processed.

What usually happens now?

[razzle_dazzle]

to AHC01: you just have to sit and wait. It might be ages or it might be quick.

My impression is that all applications submitted on the online system are all being processed miles quicker than the unlucky us who submitted a paper based application. Since they want to show that they are processing things, they power through the online ones as it seems to be much more streamlined for them.
I made the mistake of applying in April 2022, when it was paper-based, paid a lot of money to have documents certified etc. I didnt know that I had to apply for british citizenship before Irish (back then I hadnt considered it as it meant having to do the exams and validate my degrees to proof english language for the UK one). As many who applied in that year, responses have been very very slow (there is a timeline I posted summarising everything so far for me Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:25 am)....

Anyway to this date still no response!!

The only update I have is that now Im a British citizen (naturalised)... I dont know if I should let them know... I fear it might make things more complicated and worse.
But then, if by some miraculous thing I managed to get my Irish citizenship (which was what I always intended since my husband and children are Irish, family here is Irish living in Ireland), then I have no clue what to put down if I get asked for IRP or permission to live here?
So not sure if I should withdraw at this point (and pretty much throw away the approx 500 eur that it was to apply + get documents certified).
I think I'll just let the whole thing carry on and see where it goes. Maybe out of shame for taking so long they might forgive me.
I mean, it's been 2 year + 2 months... come on!! - would you expect that the same circumstances that you were in have not changed?? it is so ridiculous...

Anyway I have a question for all of you who have been lucky to have been approved and gotten your certificates, etc: I read somewhere that if you are not living in the state (ROI), that you have to renew your intention to keep your Irish citizenship EVERY YEAR? - a process that entails having to go to an Irish Embassy to get it done. Do you know if that applies if you live in Northern Ireland? Honestly after all that they make you suffer, it would be unbelievable if they ask to have to do that every year...

Thanks for all your insights! I am learning a lot.