Naturalisation Referees Forms Queries - Please Help

[DawnUK]

Hi Again,

I am trying to understand some points regarding the referees forms requirements for naturalisation after 1 year of ILR.

1. Can I get and prepare the referees forms before I fill-in the naturalisation application itself? If yes, from where? How far can the referees sign them before the application date?

2. My potential referees live far away from me ,one even is most probably out of the UK, can I send them the forms to sign via email? If yes, how would I do it exactly?:
a)- Would I send the form without my picture and they print it, sign it, scan it, and send it back to me, then I print the signed form to attach my picture, then re-scan it again? (The signature might look like a printed signature in this option, which is worrying me)

b)- Would I attach my picture from the beginning and scan it, send it to the referee, whom will print it, sign it, scan it, and re-send it again? (The signature and the picture might look like being printed in this option, again even more worrying).

c)- If either option from above is achievable, can the referee signature be electronic or must it be live ink? If it can be electronic, can it be like typing their name or must it be electronic handwriting signature?

Many Thanks.

[DawnUK]

Hi Everyone,

Is there a problem with my questions, I posted them twice now and I have received no answers or clarifications? I would appreciate your kind guidance and help.

Thanks.

[lolo2]

These questions have been responded many times.

1. This is up to you. Normally as closer as possible to the application date.

2a. Everything is done digitally, nothing needs to be printed out.

2b. Pictures are uploaded digitally and don't need to be signed. Ignore that statement on the form.

2c. Same as above. Referees only need to sign as their signatures on their passports.

[DawnUK]

Hi Lolo2

Many thanks for your help. I apologise for the repeated queries. I tried to check the sticky notes and previously raised issues before raising my queries, however, I wasn't able to find all answers even though I looked up to the 3rd page or something, apologies again.

Regarding the forms, I found the following link from 2020 in one of the sticky pages:
https://ssb22.user.srcf.net/law/citizenref.html

Are the referee forms there still valid to be used?

Also, I had a tram penalty fare notice/ticket back in 2024, which was paid ASAP and I have already declared in the ILR application, can this ticket affect the naturalisation application outcome negatively? I heard that the good character test became stricter.

Thanks.

[lolo2]

Both referees use the same form. https://visas-immigration.service.gov.u ... on_MN1.pdf

That penalty ticket should not have any impact on the application.

[DawnUK]

Hi

Many thanks for your help. I have discovered something really disturbing and worrying recently. While I was reading about the needed documents for naturalisation I cam across council taxes legal actions such as summons and liability orders, which I didn't know about before. Out of curiosity I started reading further about them and found that councils when take legal actions like these they add the costs on the bill as "costs".

This reminded me of a final bill that I received from a previous council I used to live under, which had "costs" and a statement mentioning that part of the remaining money was subject to recovery actions. All of this, at the time, didn't make any difference to me simply because I don't have a legal background and didn't receive any warnings or reminders or anything like that, so I just paid ASAP on receipt and without even thinking something wrong was there!

This whole situation happened when I moved out from one address to 2 different addresses within 2 months. I was paying the tax month per month via the online portal and when I moved out from the first address I simply waited for a final bill so I can pay it and close that account. I never received this, then I spent about a month in the interim address before completely leaving that city council jurisdiction. Now not receiving the final bill from the 2 addresses I simply assumed that the council was busy and they would issue me my bills shortly, after not hearing from them for about 2-3 months in my final address, I contacted them via phone and sent them email to check on my bills, as per their request, still no answer. I then sent another email a month after still no answer. Finally, they sent me some incorrect bills as I remember, duration wise, I called again next month on receiving them and insisted on resolving this via phone, so finally they sent me that final corrected bill with the statements I mentioned earlier and I paid ASAP.

Today I called the council and they confirmed that I had a paid liability order on my account history but the account is closed and nothing to worry about as they said! The issue now is mainly that since I haven't known about this I didn't declare this in my ILR application and I am now due to apply for naturalisation, so my queries are:

1. Since of course I will declare this in my naturalisation application, can this be seen as deception for my ilr application?

2. Can this affect my naturalisation outcome negatively, especially with the whole tram fare penalty issue, which will be declared as well?

The irony is that I strongly believe that I sent that same council tax bill as part of my ilr application as supporting evidence for my address, at least as much as I remember.

Many Thanks.

[alterhase58]

I would say "no" to both your questions.
When they talk about "enforcement" it's debt collectors to start with.
In the worst case a CCJ would be raised against you.
But you have paid immediately so there's nothing to disclose.
If you had a CCJ then it would be wise to to disclose for naturalisation with proof you have addressed the debt.
For ILR you used the bill as proof of residence, not proof you were debt free, so no deception.

[DawnUK]

Many thanks for your quick answer. I don't know what a ccj is and how to check that? As I understand from the call today that the matter was not escalated much and resolved quickly but if there are any other checks that need to be made I am happy to undergo per your advice.

I really strongly believe I attached the bill in my ILR application, however, since I can't confirm this by evidence, except my memory, in worst case scenario, if it wasn't included, would that make my declaration in the naturalisation as a deception issue?

Many Thanks again.

[alterhase58]

CCJ = County Court Judgement. (https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt)
That's the last resort for creditors to get their money, if normal debt collection doesn't work.
I can't see any reason for deception, so there's nothing to declare. Others may wish to comment.

[DawnUK]

Hi,

Sorry another question please. I used to work in a form of mandatory service in my birth country and left it without resignation as they didn't accept resignations anyway according to that country administration/civic legal code they can start legal actions against me and when I found that I just paid a fee and all legal actions settled as I know. I never disclosed this in any of my applications including ILR because honestly never gave it a thought as something worth mentioning since it's as you see purely administrative related stuff and weird situation to explain (being in mandatory service work), besides it has no legal effects on me here or there as proven by my criminal record certificate from that country which I actually supplied a version of during the ILR application and it showed no record of any sort of anything, including this situation. I am also free to travel in/out/through that country without any issues so again another evidence of having no issue. I am not sure though should I make a declaration about this in the naturalisation application given the amount of details they ask or just ignore it as I have always done. I am planning to get an updated criminal record certificate from that country to attach to my application anyway. What do you think?

If it's to be declared, would this have any negative effect or seen as omission/deception for not being declared before?

Would it also have any negative effect on the naturalisation application outcome negatively? like creating a sense of pattern given the previous history explained to you before in my previous posts?

Thanks as usual.

[alterhase58]

Never heard of this ....
I don't believe this is anything to disclose, you are overthinking.

[DawnUK]

Hi Again, and sorry for the headache. Regarding the last situation I explained (leaving the compulsory working scheme in home country without a resignation and before the minimum required duration), I actually consulted a lawyer in that country to understand that situation better, it turned out as a fine issued by a court back in 2021, translated roughly as Misdemeanors court, and roughly equivalent to a Magistrate in the UK. Does this mean that I will have to declare it then? Also the previous questions I raised last time reappear again, would the declaration affect the application in any negative way given the rest of the declarations that will have to be made, or create a sense of concealment since it's declared for the first time, or a sense of a repeated disregard for the law?

I honestly have always thought this to be only an administrative payment within the work domain, nothing more.

Many thanks for your help.

[DawnUK]

Any help please? as I honestly don't know what to do and I am so worried about all of this.

Many Thanks.

[contorted_svy]

I have never personally come across anything like this. No issue for not disclosing this previously in any case. You paid the fee so I don't think it should be an issue, disclosing is always the best course of action.

[DawnUK]

Many thanks for your help. Would it be affecting the application in any negative way? I mean the declaration and the situation itself, along with other the issues?

Thanks.

[contorted_svy]

This is hard to know. If this is the only issue you have ever faced with the law, unlikely. It doesn't sound like a serious offence.

[DawnUK]

This is the only thing, along with a paid liability order for a council tax payment while moving between addresses, settled ASAP within 2 months of being issued but I didn't know what a liability order is at the time (Dec 2023) as it was added to the final bill as "costs" which I just paid ASAP once the final bill was correctly issued in early 2024 (long saga of miscommunication between the council and myself), I recently discovered this liability order existence, but nothing happened since the payment in early 2024. Also there's tram fare penalty ticket for getting an extra zone ticket after entering the zone and not before, which wasn't known to me at the time, this was declared in the ILR application. That's everything, what do you think?

[contorted_svy]

These sound like minor administrative issues which you settled down straight away rather than serious offences (eg time you spent in custody). There is no guarantee an application will succeed but your case isn't raising major red flags to me.

[DawnUK]

Many thanks for your help and assurance, away from the issues nature, do you think that they create a sense of law disregard pattern or because they are being declared now a sense of deception?

Also from your experience if you would give this application an estimated success percentage what would it be?

Sorry I am just panicking and honestly considering not to apply.

Thanks.

[contorted_svy]

AsI already said, deception not an issue because ILR has different requirements on good character and we are talking about administrative-like offences I believe in your case.

I can't comment on your percentages of success, but more than 90% citizenship applications are accepted. It is your decision if applying or not.