overstayed & malaysian passport expiring soon

[minmin]

Hi. I came here 2 years ago and started working in a chinese take away. unfortunately, i din have a working permit. (not as lucky as those who have got a working permit) my passport is expiring next june. but i did not plan to go home as yet. i need to save up more.

will i be able to renew my passport at the malaysian embassy in London? what if i go home to malaysia with an expired passport? what are the consequences?

please advice. any advice will be appreciated. thanks so much.....

[Chess]

You cant board a plane with an expired passport!

[penanglad]

You should contact the Malaysian high commission and renew your passport before it expires. I don't know if they will notice that you have overstayed, but it will be even more difficult if you try to renew an expired passort.

[John]

When the Government starts handing out £2000 each Fixed Penalty notices for employers employing illegal workers you may start to find life a lot more difficult in the UK!

That is, your employer might not wish to continue with your services.

[minmin]

that is not a worry because the employer is a relative.

have you heard of anyone trying to renew their passport in the UK malaysian embassy, and been sent home due to overstay in uk?

[John]

that is not a worry because the employer is a relative.

Ah right, the relative will simply not worry if handed a £2000 Fixed Penalty Notice?

It really is a no-brainer that when the Home Office starts enforcing the legislation and handing out the Fixed Penalty Notices, they will obviously start by targeting places like takeaways, restaurants and market stalls, indeed any place renowned for paying wages cash-in-hand.

[minmin]

dear John, i am not saying that my relative will not worry abt paying the £2000 penalty. any employer would. but, a lot of take-away, i would say almost all, are hiring or have hired ppl without working permit. i also agree that the authority will focus on these kind of businesses. but as at now, my major problem is whether i could have my passport renewed at the malaysian embassy, and not whether my employer will continue my service.

i have an impression that ppl like me, who work here without a working permit, are being looked down. we have being treated like nobody, sometimes worse than the indonesian in malaysia. may be we are nobody simply because we have no status. think about it, if given a choice, do u think we din want a working permit? everyone who came to the UK and work here, with or without working permit, has the same purpose. we are all hoping for a better future. hoping that we could earn more money. is that wrong, just because we dun have a working permit??

[Kayalami]

minmin,

With respect and putting the matter of your illegality to one side your 'passport renewal procedure' query is one for the Malaysian High Commission to deal with - contact them to find out their requirements for passport renewal. It may be that they require applicants who have resided in the UK for longer than a specific time period to submit proof that they have not acquired British Citizenship. Such evidence would necessitate you having to obtain a 'No Record of Citizenship' letter from the Home Office who surprise surprise will have a major interest in your UK status.

[penanglad]

I don't think they will need a No Record of Citizenship letter if you renew your passport before it expires. However, they will see the leave to enter stamp into the UK and they will see that it has expired. What they do is up to them. They probably won't send you back or report you to the authorities, but they may refuse to renew your passport.

Illegal working is just that, illegal. It may cause you a lot of difficulties in future with visas etc. The economy in Malaysia is booming and you won't exactly starve, so I'm afraid I have no sympathy. If you think breaking the law to earn more money is fine, then you might as well counterfeit money, sell illegal pornos or take bribes.

[Christophe]

everyone who came to the UK and work here, with or without working permit, has the same purpose. we are all hoping for a better future. hoping that we could earn more money. is that wrong, just because we dun have a working permit??

Well, it is wrong in the sense that it is breaking the law. And while it is not the primary purpose of this website to moralise, nevertheless I think you can't be surprised when people look askance at what you are doing, especially if, as appears to be the case, you are trying to justify it on solely on financial grounds. This is especially so since there are, as far as we are aware, no extenuating circumstances: you are from a country with a vibrant enough economy and you do not claim to be fleeing from adverse circumstances there.

It is true, no doubt, that we all might be hoping for a better future. It is also true, as if often claimed, that countries like the USA and Australia largely owe any current economic success to immigrants and that the UK also owes a lot ot immigrants. Nevertheless, the vast majority of such immigrants, taken over the course of the history of these countries, have been there legally or, at the least, have sought to regularise their status in the country concerned. I do think that there is a difference between their course of action and yours.

Having said all of that, I can appreciate the predicament that you are in now. I think (as a non-expert, I should add) that your first course of action must be to apply to the Malaysian High Commission to renew your passport, something that, in the circumstances, will be best done before your passport expires. It is not the role of the Malaysian High Commission or the Malaysian government to enforce the UK's immigration or employment laws, so I doubt (but cannot know for sure) that they will take any action per se about your overstay or your illegal working. They might, however, want proof that you have not got another citizenship, which in the case of British citizenship might be difficult to demonstrate without involving the Home Office. But I think you will have to start the ball in motion.

The only alternatives that I can see, both expensive probably, would be to seek legal advice (preferably from a lawyer versed in both UK immigration law and Malaysian nationality law, but particularly the former) - a lawyer cannot help you to continue breaking the law, but he or she can try to minimise the adverse effect of your actions - or to leave the UK while the passport is still valid and return to Malaysia, where you could renew it in the usual way. This latter would obviously be the most 'legitimate' course of action. (I ought to add that you are unlikely to be able to go back to Malaysia with an expired passport because you will probably not be allowed by the airline to board the plane.)

In any case, unless you want to go completely underground, it's hard to see how you can continue as you are now.

[minmin]

I am not saying that working here illegally is such a wonderful thing. No doubt it is illegal, but at least i have cost no harm to anyone, as per my point of view. If i were to counterfeit money or sell porno, i would be bringing damages to the economy, and indirectly supporting gangsterism and terrorism. as at now, i have used my hard labour to earn money. it is very difficult compare to what i used to do. (i do not need any sympathy because this is what i chose to do) i have a degree from the USA, and i used to work in a bank. i m not someone who had owed money to 'ah long' and trying to run away. if the economy of our country is so vibrant, so full of opportunities, then may i ask why are so many ppl chose to come here?

I have my dreams, and also a lot of family responsibilities at the same time. But i realised if i were to continue working, i will never ever make my dreams come true. I am not arguing or defending so that u guys will sympathise me or make what i do 'legal'. I am just trying to say i chose to work here because i have my own reasons. We are just looking at things from different dimensions. Please do not pre-judge anyone who works here illegally.

Thanks for all the advices. I sincerely do appreciate them.

[John]

No doubt it is illegal, but at least i have cost no harm to anyone, as per my point of view.

Ah, the victimless crime! But is that right?

If you were not there working where you are then someone else, a legal person, would be doing that job. Accordingly there is a victim, it is just that it is not possible to say exactly who that victim is, in the sense that we do not know the exact name of that person, simply because the job has not been advertised, because you are filling it illegally.

Can let me guess .... you are paying the correct amount of income tax and national insurance?

[lanwarrior]

i have an impression that ppl like me, who work here without a working permit, are being looked down. we have being treated like nobody, sometimes worse than the indonesian in malaysia. may be we are nobody simply because we have no status. think about it, if given a choice, do u think we din want a working permit? everyone who came to the UK and work here, with or without working permit, has the same purpose. we are all hoping for a better future. hoping that we could earn more money. is that wrong, just because we dun have a working permit??

I resent that. What do you mean that Indonesian is treated bad in Malaysia? If that's the case, then probably you're tasting your own medicine (since you're Malaysian based on your post) of being treated badly.

[lanwarrior]

I am not saying that working here illegally is such a wonderful thing. No doubt it is illegal, but at least i have cost no harm to anyone, as per my point of view.

The LAW is the LAW, in this case this is an Immigration Law, NOT a criminal law. You broke the law, simple as that.

Your argument is what are being used by the illegal immigrant in USA, but no one buy that anymore. Check out CNN or Google on illegal immigrant in USA or the Minuteman project.

[John]

The LAW is the LAW, in this case this is an Immigration Law, NOT a criminal law. You broke the law, simple as that.

Not sure I agree with that. Certainly the employer is committing a criminal offence. Possible penalties include a fine of up to £5000.

[nicholas_hzl]

Dear minmin,

You can write really good English. At first, I was quite surprised that a person with good command in English work in a takeaway. Then I read later that you worked in a bank previously. It's really ashamed that you rather work in a takeaway.

I am personally doubtful that the Malaysian embassy will renew your passport. It will be in a mess if the UK immigration find out later that the embassy will actually renew your passport if you overstayed in UK. Imagine the credibility of the embassy if this were to happen.

I came back from London yesterday. Amidst the tight security checks in Heathrow Terminal 4, the are no immigration counters after I pass the security. No exit stamps on my passport and no one check on my passport whether or not I overstayed (I didn't overstay). The only time that a person checked my passport is when I check-in at the aircraft counter for my boarding pass. I am not sure whether their system is linked to the immigration or not to see whether I overstayed. If anyone can confirm this, please help me to do so.

My point is if the system is not linked and no exit stamps on your passport, you can safely come back first before you get caught.

How long are you going to be in the takeaway? If the owner is your relative, couldn't he sponsor a work permit for you then you pay as you earn. Then, after getting the work permit and proper clearance visa from UK embassy in Malaysia, you can then go down to UK again and slowly find a job that is more suitable to your credentials and your future in the UK.

OR you can quietly come back to Malaysia then try to go in UK again to find a job. OR look for a UK job via internet when you are back in Malaysia. Telephone interview is pretty normal nowadays. You can tell them during those two years, you helped out in a family takeaway business (don't mention in the UK-la and hence they will understand your disapperance from the bank field for two years. The longer you are out from your professional field, the harder it is for you to get back in. You need to stop working like this before it's too late. You are not adding value to yourself and increasing your earning power, in short NOT doing yourself a favour. I am sorry if you have known about this all along but I just have to pen in. Don't get me wrong. I am not pitiful about you, I am just ashamed. you know, so 'sayang'...

I was in the UK since May this year to look for a job (without any clearance visa or holiday maker visa, not permitted to work). I managed to land a graduate entry level job after 3 months of searching although I have about 5 years of working experience in Malaysia. During the course of job finding, I found that people with financial services sector experience is in hot demand. I couldn't get two audit jobs because I don't have the financial services experience. If you don't mind, you can start as a graduate entry auditor in the big 4 audit firms (salary around 26k per annum), banking on your experience in the bank with a degree. Maybe they will sign you up a bond of three years while they sponsor you to take ACA.

I am just telling you what you are missing.

Working illegally is not a solution.
Staying illegally is not a solution.
Working in takeaways is not a solution especially if you have a degree and banking experience.

Start from somewhere firm.

Also, you got to learn to respect yourself before saying immigrants such as yourself are looked down and treated as a nobody. I am sorry if this sentence will piss you off

Respect yourself means you are able to uphold yourself in the daylight without fear of being get caught and without fear of being always on the run. Give yourself a break. All these are not worth living for. You will get OLD fast.

I wish you all the best in your future endeavours. I might even ask you to help me improve my English.

Good luck girl.


-Nicholas

[sharmaa02]

", then may i ask why are so many ppl chose to come here?"

There is nothing wrong in working, staying or studying in UK as far as you are doing 'legally'. Your argument that you are doing same as others want to do is absolutely ridiculous and unjustified. Others want to stay here legally and if not allowed will not overstay here like you. If I am not allowed then I won't over stay here even for 1 day even.

So pleace don't draw an equivalence of an illegal and immoral act with those who are genuinely taking the legal route to come here.

[Christophe]

I am personally doubtful that the Malaysian embassy will renew your passport. It will be in a mess if the UK immigration find out later that the embassy will actually renew your passport if you overstayed in UK. Imagine the credibility of the embassy if this were to happen.

I am not sure that this is true - it really is not the business of the Malaysian High Commission to involve itself with enforcing British immigration law. I'd assume that the view of the Malaysian authorities here would be that the person is entitled to a new passport and will renew it. I am sure that this would not be the first such case that they had come across.

[lanwarrior]

I think, however, the Malaysian Embassy in GENERAL is required to follow UK LAW while they're in UK.

Example: if someone, who is convicted as a criminal in UK (not Malaysia) is trying to renew his/her Malaysian passport and the Embassy Officer recognise him, I am sure it'll be report ed to the UK police.

In the case of immigration, however, it may be up to the discretion of the Embassy Officer.

[nicholas_hzl]

I think it's still a real risk. Even if there is a person who overstayed and managed to get the embassy to renew his passport for him and didn't get caught, it doesn't mean if minmin go and renew hers, she won't be caught.

Even though if the embassy officers do not confront her on her overstaying at that time she renews her passport and if I am her, I won't be able to sit down and relax at home lest out of a sudden the UK immigration stormed in her place if the officer tells the UK immigration secretly...

Not sure whether minmin is still interested in this thread anymore...

[secular]

Your actions cannot be condoned in any way. You are not denigrating your status as a university graduate with impeccable english language proficiency, but your actions have other serious ramifications for Malaysia's ability to enter the UK WITHOUT A VISA. If too many Malaysians do what you did, more and more malaysians will be subject to unnecessary interrogations when they arrive in Heathrow through no fault of their own. Some will even be refused entry although they are just innocent tourists. If the number of refusals and overstayers exceed a certain thresold, UK will TERMINATE Malaysian's ability to enter without a visa. This is how entry regulations work. I've worked in this area before. I'm sure this is the last thing Malaysian wants. Jamaicans were recently relieved of their rights to enter Uk without a visa because of that. As of now, Malaysians are already blacklisted by the UK immigration. A total of 1300 Malaysians were refused entry into the UK last year, one of the highest on a per capita basis. Look at this link http://www.official-documents.co.uk/doc ... 4/6904.pdf (Pg 41) . I do not appreciate people like you exacarbeting the situation when the refusal of Malaysians are already disproportionate compared to other countries. I had to answer unnecssary questions when i arrived in Heathrow last year. Working without a work permit opens you to a lot of exploitation because the employers do know you will not report any abuses to the authorities for fear of being deported. I will never put myself in that position and i am dissapointed that a university graduate like you fails to see that. Furthermore, a chinese takeaway store is the last place you should work in. Caucasian bossess are usually nicer although they can be dearly beloved. Immigration officers do have a habit of targeting non western restaurants as well.

[nicholas_hzl]

yup...my mum and me have been asked so many questions in the airport for just an innocent visit sister and friends in the UK. finally we have to show them how much money we brought. really a hassle...

The UK has given us a very good priviledge to be in the UK for a good 6 months. But it is not a nice experience to be questioned from head to toe just to get this privilledge because they have decided that too many have exploited it...alas...

[secular]

I can consider myself lucky because i was only asked about 3 or 4 questions. I wasnt asked to show how much money i had. I was travelling alone as well and they have a habit of picking on young travellers who are travelling alone. Luckily i have many stamps in that passport. However, i will enter UK from the Channel Tunnel next time. There is a stark contrast between the officers in Heathrow and the officers there in my experience. I will not fly to Heathrow directly again.

[nicholas_hzl]

really? I was too afraid to go to Paris for a short visit when I was in London or any other place in Europe. That's because I was afraid if I enter London again, I may be questioned ALL OVER AGAIN...

So you think it's ok if I take EuroStar via the Channel Tunnel?

[lanwarrior]

If you guys don't mind, wehre do you originally come from? I was never questioned much in any other countries that I visit (Australia, US, Canada, Sngapore), so I was just wondering if this applies only to certain countries? I know that in US, the immigration checkpoint askmore questions for visitors from Asia countries.