EU 1 Decision Letter Received

jack_in_the box · Post by **jack_in_the box** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:33 am

So I finally got my letter from the EU Treaty Right Sections this morning after a long wait - tomorrow will be nine months since my application was received by them.
Anyway - my application was DENIED!!!!! Denied on the basis that i was not resident in another EU country before coming to Ireland...rather strange as I have been living & working here for nearly 6 years now on work permits. Seems like applications definitely don't get personal attention & all is done in black & white with NO SHADES OF GREY!!

Anybody else receive a letter in the last few days?

Birdy · Post by **Birdy** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am

just been advised ours will be sent out today

out of curiousity where are you guys from where in the EU and your spouse

Birdy · Post by **Birdy** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:01 pm

Have you contacted Solvit and the guys Plaasjapie mentioned in his post european complaints. ill try find it

Post by **archigabe** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:12 pm

I think you definitely have grounds for taking them to court...I know of a couple who received their residence cards in december even though they had never lived in another E.u country before.I dont know how they can approve them and deny yours even though you are both in the same situation.

stmani · Post by **stmani** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:21 pm

thats terrible!!! my situation is pretty same and hoping to get denied very soon.......
i had few european visas on my passport before getting married, would that make any difference????

jack_in_the box · Post by **jack_in_the box** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:45 pm

I don't know what makes a difference. I think they only want to see that Ireland is not the first/only EU country you've LIVED in before getting married & moving here.
I also have a few Holiday Visas for other EU countries, but that didn't make a difference.
Just send in what you have & hope for the best.

Our Backgrounds:
I am South African Living & working here for 6 years on work permits.
My wife is Italian Living & working here for 11 years.

I also know of somebody who walked into the guarda offices & they gave him his Spousal Visa over the counter. He's in the same situation as me....in fact I applied before he did!

Just a "catch 22" situation because what is one meant to do when you already have a life established in Ireland & I have never lived in another EU country. When I wanted to apply for my long term visa on the basis of being here for 5 years they advised me to RATHER apply for the Spousal Visa. Look where that got me. 9 months later & now the LTR Visa takes 45 weeks to process where as before it took only 14 - 16 weeks.

And YES - I've been talking to SOLVIT for the last 2 months. All they say is that nothing can be done until the court case is settled.
Also emailed the Minister of Justice, but no reply from that yet.

Birdy · Post by **Birdy** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:45 pm

so long as there arent just a holiday visa like the 9o day visitors thing apprantly according to Solvit they dont like that.

Static · Post by **Static** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:02 pm

jack_in_the box wrote:So I finally got my letter from the EU Treaty Right Sections this morning after a long wait - tomorrow will be nine months since my application was received by them.
Anyway - my application was DENIED!!!!! Denied on the basis that i was not resident in another EU country before coming to Ireland...rather strange as I have been living & working here for nearly 6 years now on work permits. Seems like applications definitely don't get personal attention & all is done in black & white with NO SHADES OF GREY!!

Anybody else receive a letter in the last few days?

Sorry to hear about this........... what are you going to do now?

This worries me immensely.. I can't possibly go back to SA as there is nothing to go back to.

jack_in_the box · Post by **jack_in_the box** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:40 pm

To be honest I really don't know what to do now!! I feel like my legs have been cut off!
Not only don't I want to go back to SA, but I don't want to drag my EU wife back there with me. How unfair would that be?
Then on the other hand...what kind of a life is it here when you live from work permit to work permit, from year to year!???

megmog · Post by **megmog** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:40 pm

static/jack in the box I am with you on this one.. I dont want to have to live in SA either..

I just.. dont understand the big deal.. we are all (at least some of us are and for those who aren't already are intending to) contributing to the economy.. no benefits, privarte healthcare.. completely self sufficient.

I am so MAD!!

Static · Post by **Static** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:47 pm

jack_in_the box wrote:To be honest I really don't know what to do now!! I feel like my legs have been cut off!
Not only don't I want to go back to SA, but I don't want to drag my EU wife back there with me. How unfair would that be?
Then on the other hand...what kind of a life is it here when you live from work permit to work permit, from year to year!???

Are you not eligible for the permanent residence thing?

jack_in_the box · Post by **jack_in_the box** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:50 pm

Yes I will apply for that, but the Residency application takes about 2 years!!! And to apply for the LTR visa takes up to 45 weeks now! So yes in the end it might get me some where, but what do I do until then?

Post by **archigabe** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:04 pm

Is it possible we can all join together for a lawsuit...in the States a group of people can get together to launch a 'class action lawsuit' so that you can share the expenses, and the decision can benefit everyone.

Static · Post by **Static** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:13 pm

archigabe wrote:Is it possible we can all join together for a lawsuit...in the States a group of people can get together to launch a 'class action lawsuit' so that you can share the expenses, and the decision can benefit everyone.

Like a tort case..? good plan! and get media coverage and all that. I'm in.

Birdy · Post by **Birdy** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:27 pm

Static wrote:
jack_in_the box wrote:So I finally got my letter from the EU Treaty Right Sections this morning after a long wait - tomorrow will be nine months since my application was received by them.
Anyway - my application was DENIED!!!!! Denied on the basis that i was not resident in another EU country before coming to Ireland...rather strange as I have been living & working here for nearly 6 years now on work permits. Seems like applications definitely don't get personal attention & all is done in black & white with NO SHADES OF GREY!!

Anybody else receive a letter in the last few days?
Sorry to hear about this........... what are you going to do now? This worries me immensely.. I can't possibly go back to SA as there is nothing to go back to.

Im debating appealing but im waiting to hear how long that will take alternatives involve shipping my wife back to the us have her apply there for the uk and move back but i fdont want to do this still alot of things to consider.

Plaasjapie · Post by **Plaasjapie** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:51 pm

cartaverde · Post by **cartaverde** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:09 pm

Wow. I feel your pain jack in the box.
After working here and them leeching off your tax money this is what you get ...

how easy would it be for you to get a work permit for UK? Or would you have any chances of getting a work in Italy (if she wouldn't mind living there)?

Babsie · Post by **Babsie** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:43 pm

As a last resort we would look into that, but after me living here for 11 years & my husband for nearly 6 years, this is where our lives are! We don't really want to pack up & go because we're forced to do that. But if that's what it comes to what else can one do?
Sad...but true!

Birdy · Post by **Birdy** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:26 am

Im feeling that Babsie.

If we are denied i cant keep working the two jobs we both need to be working and my wife has had so many interviews and when she shows them the form they just turn there nose up plus with the Decision due today or monday there is little point applying for a work permit.

We have to decide wether to Appeal and wait bearing in mind they could move to adjourn again or to find the quickest way back to the UK

Post by **archigabe** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:14 pm

Can we appeal the decision saying the regulations S.I. No. 656 of 2006 European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) ( No. 2) Regulations 2006 come into operation only on 1 January 2007.
If we applied in 2006 we would come under the old regulations which does not require residency in another european country...anyways the whole damn law is unconstitutional!

brownbonno · Post by **brownbonno** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:42 pm

Extract''(This note is not part of the Instrument and does not purport to be a legal interpretation).
This Order was made for the purpose of giving effect in Irish law to the Directive on the
rights of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside feely within the
territory of the Member States (Directive 2004/38/EC). It replaces the European
Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 (S.I. No. 226 of 2006)
consequent upon the enlargement of the European Union on 1 January 2007.''

brownbonno · Post by **brownbonno** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:04 pm

archigabe wrote:Can we appeal the decision saying the regulations S.I. No. 656 of 2006 European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) ( No. 2) Regulations 2006 come into operation only on 1 January 2007.
If we applied in 2006 we would come under the old regulations which does not require residency in another european country...anyways the whole damn law is unconstitutional!

The act of the DoJ is in a total breach of the community law.Protest as suggested is a good idea.But the main pain is when they are forced to pay for cost of any court proceeding in the event that they lost.And by the available case laws,they will definitely loose the case.
''Having regard to the judgment in Case Câ€‘109/01 Akrich [2003] ECR Iâ€‘9607, Community law does not require Member States to make the grant of a residence permit to nationals of a non-Member State, who are members of the family of a Community national who has exercised his or her right of free movement, subject to the condition that those family members have previously been residing lawfully in another Member State''

Before the commission take any case to ECJ there must be people with valid proof that the DoJ has denied them of their rights.Present this cases to the Commission,on that bases can they can take the Republic of Ireland to ECJ.
Mourning all day here without taking an action may not help.
Protest may only influence the DoJ but will not change alot.But the court can do.
Waiting for the court case in June,do any one knows the content of the suit/court case.?

Plaasjapie · Post by **Plaasjapie** » Sun May 20, 2007 8:37 pm

Birdy · Post by **Birdy** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:57 pm

Im sure it will be cleared up eventually but im not hanging around for it anymore if they have interpretted this one this way who is to say they wont find another srewed up way to bend the law the way they want in the future after all Remember Charly Haughey

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