Citizenship for my Russian Ex-wife

[sakura]

Man....hell is gonna break lose over this one...

A few questions: has she ever been charged with anything (i.e. anything on her record? Any criminal record at all)?

She was immediately given ILR? Even without living here or anything? Are you sure? Would it not have been a spouse visa? How come she didn't (think to) apply for naturalisation before now?

Has the HO/former IND ever written back to you about your letters?

How will she use the British immigration system (I mean, why do you think so)? Does she intend to bring her kids, husband, parents, husband's parents and pets into the UK?

Wanderer would say....maybe have a 'potential spouse' visa or something in between fiance and spouse visas...I can see in these cases maybe that ain't a bad idea!

[SYH]

Yeah the timings of her different status doesn't make sense
normally, you can get ILR after 2 years marriage and then citizenship immediately after obtrainin ILR
If she had ILR right off the bat, she didn't need ot wait 5 years to get citizenship.
Frankly, although I am sure this is not the case, the HO can take your remarks as sour grapes. Of course, they want to know of fraud but it really is in their hands to grant her citizenship with the info your provided. And that's all you can do.

[John]

normally, you can get ILR after 2 years marriage and then citizenship immediately after obtrainin ILR

Well no! ILR does indeed come near the end of the 2-year spouse visa, but citizenship immediately thereafter? No! Or certainly, not necessarily.

In order for someone who is married to (or in Civil Partnership with) a British Citizen to apply for Naturalisation they need to pass the "applicant was physically in the UK exactly 3 years before BIA receive the Naturalisation application" test.

So unless someone has been legally in the UK prior to the issue of the 2-year spouse visa, a further period of time will need to be spent in the UK before the Naturalisation application can be made.

To our amazement she was given ILR immediately

Are you absolutely sure about that? It does not make sense.

But if indeed she does have ILR then, assuming she is not now married to (or in Civil Partnership with) a British Citizen, she can apply for Naturalisation as soon as she can pass the "applicant was physically in the UK exactly 5 years before BIA receive the Naturalisation application" test. Assuming of course that she has passed the Life in the UK Test.

You don't post when she arrived in the UK on her visitor visa ... sometime early 2003? .... so it sounds like she can apply early 2008?

A final thought .... did the two of you live together outside the UK for 4 years? And where was her Indefinite Leave visa granted, in the UK or in Russia?

[olisun]

(including her stealing two British passports from me)

Have you made sure your identity (stolen passports) is not used by anybody else?

[SYH]

(including her stealing two British passports from me)

Have you made sure your identity (stolen passports) is not used by anybody else?

I guess he had one, she stole it, got a new one issued and she stole it?
Aren't you getting tired of paying for a new passport. I guess its time to lock that baby up.

[SYH]

If the HO goofed and gave her ILR right of the bat, then the requisite time to apply for citizenship may have been reduced as a result which was what I was trying to express in an earlier post about getting her citizenship straight away.
In any case, despite her bad behaviour, it really isn't up to you to say she doesn't deserve citizenship, that's the HO's call.

And I get the impression from the HO's response that they can't lawfully deny her citizenship under the circumstances probably due to their goof of giving her ILR so quickly.

They would have to be able to prove fraud to deny her and as you are not telling them you sponsored her spouse visa to deceive them and she is certainly not going to say it, there is very little the HO can do to prove otherwise. Of course, they could try to use the good character requirement but this is the part where is it bad behaviour tantamount to not satisfying good character or can she argue sour grapes. Let's face it, many marriages disintegrate and if everyone could claim, the foreign spouse was being deceitful as a basis, then it would be too great a hardship for those who pulled up their roots to live in a foreign country with their spouse and honestly gave it go but it didn't work out.

As for your stolen passport, I am sure they have been nullified in terms of use for travel but I would make sure your bank accounts are secure since she may be using them as proof to gain access to them. Otherwise, I'd move on but with her living with you, I'd figure out how to get to the next step extraction from the situation.

[Jeff Albright]

It is absolutely unique for BIA to issue ILR after 6 months on tourist visa and a rushed marriage. It is absolutely against the rules and policies. I can't believe it.

Now that they handed over the ILR to her, it will be extremely difficult to revoke it in a lawful fashion. The ILR may be revoked if obtained by deception but it looks like there was no deception on your or her part at the time of application.

Sorry mate but you got yourself in a real mess at that time. I cannot see any reason of such a rushed marriage - did you actually think what you were doing or suspect something fishy in it?!

Unfortunately, there is no legal avenue to stop her from gaining the UK citizenship now after she has been on ILR here for 5 years even if you are now divorced.
What she did was a simple abuse of the UK immigration system as well as spit in your face by that sort of crap. I just hope you have learned some lesson out of it and won't let it happen again. You are just lucky that it has not ruined your life completely... There are evil women over there. Be careful next time.

[John]

She arrived in the UK in September 2002 on a tourist visa and we married in April 2003 (at the end of her 6 months visa)

Where was the Indefinite Leave visa granted? In the UK? Or in Russia?

If in the UK then it is particularly strange as a "no switching" rule was introduced on 01.04.03, preventing someone in the UK on say a visitor visa switching that into a spouse visa. And you say you got married in April 2003 ... after that rule was introduced.

Again .... did the two of you live together outside the UK for at least 4 years?

The stolen passports? Was she ever charged or convicted with their theft? If not then clearly it is a non-event as far as the Good Conduct requirement is concerned.

[Christophe]

Once she had ILR, her right to stay in the UK was not, of course, dependent on her being married to a British citizen (as it would have been with a spouse visa, for example). Therefore, I suspect that the Home Office will take the view that it is not her former husband's business what her immigration status is or whether she is granted citizenship.

They might, I suppose, be interested in the idea that she might have entered into the marriage solely to gain entry to the UK, but on the other hand, it sounds as if it was (in its way) a genuine marriage in that the parties lived together as wife and husband, and also it would be almost impossible to prove that the marriage was sham, especially at this remove in time.

If her thefts etc were not reported, there is not much to be done about that in terms of good character, unless they were to be reported now: but it hard to see how such allegations could be taken forward, again at this remove in time.

[Jeff Albright]

Yes I'm over it and was a long time ago; it was her who wouldn't move on until she had left nothing but total destruction and scorched earth behind her. However, after many, many court battles I managed to get my divorce and retain the marital home (despite her many obstructions and court appeals). I have been with my new partner for almost two years now (but not living together obviously) and my ex-wife also has a long term relationship too! But this battle was never about "moving on" for my ex-wife...it was about "being replaced!" It cost me deeply to get my freedom from her but fortunately I made sure there was never a chance of her having kids to me.

F... hell, mate. I am glad you are over it. Believe or not but I had exactly the same situation with a British woman 9 years ago, who did the same sort of stuff although not reaching those absurd levels as in your situation. If yours was trying to defraud the system and obtain the residency here, my ex was trying to get me out of the country using the same means. So I know exactly how you feel.
I am glad to hear you are now in a normal stable and respectful relationship. So I am. Just wanted to tell you it is not about Russian women only, these type of worms are all over the place - you just have to be extremely careful...

All the best to you.

[AlexCh]

There are evil women over there. Be careful next time.

The guy definitely does not understand the difference between the spouse visa and ILR.

[AlexCh]

-------------------------------------

[AlexCh]

I apologize for the duplicate - was getting some stupid error message every time I tried to answer.

[AlexCh]

she had left nothing but total destruction and scorched earth behind her

It was a divorce - right? Not a lot of good feelings usually involved - and not a lot of objectivity She could be a devil - but we know nothing about you also - apart of speedy marrying on girls on tourist visas.

[John]

Northernjedi, you had a divorce after an awful marriage. Regrettable but it happens.

But please don't now use her status as a visa holder to continue to influence what now happens to her, or what she is allowed to do in the UK. In short, move on!

If she has ILR .... and I totally fail to understand how she got ILR .... she has every right to stay here .... and apply for Naturalisation when she has been here for 5 years.

[SYH]

John: Please read my comments properly. I moved on TWO YEARS AGO!! This is not about revenge for me! Getting my divorce was the happiest thing I ever achieved in the last 5 years and I am in a better place now. It was and still is my ex-wife who refuses to move on and is continuing the fight. All I came here to find out is what happens now with regard to her citizenship in the UK. Ok, if I can influence the HO to reject her application then I will because (in all honesty) she NEVER really earned the right to be here!

However, I won't break my back trying to make her life difficult...unlike her... and it's not my fault that the standard of my response is at a level which she chose!

Ok but I guess John's point is that your perception of what she deserves is holding you up. As I have said already a couple of times, its not your call to decide whether she can be naturalized or to judge her in terms of earning it as you put it. You reported her to the HO and there is nothing else to be done. If the HO contacts you, then you can provide your input. Beyond that, you shouldn't preoccupy yourself as to how it might be possible to hold her up. She has already evidenced that she has a mission and won't be distracted and has in your view been on the offensive. The more you resist, the more you stay involved. So just forget she exists to the best of your ability. If you do that, then I think we all can agree you have indeed moved on.

[John]

SYH, I could not have put it better myself. I agree with all of your comment.

[SYH]

Legal Opinion: You have no standing as to her immigration status or naturalisation application.
Legal Advice does include what you can or can not do so it is not like we can say the above without adding. Nothing you can do so forget about it. That's what move on means. It doesn't mean the emotional attachment that you are shouting about above.