Citizenship delays: FOI and an application for an Order for Mandamus via the High Courts

[Vorona]

Thanks. So roughly once a year.
It looks like they are routinely make vetting request after the initial one if application is delayed, just to be sure that nothing happened in the last year or so. I used to think that Garda checks take a long time, but apparently it's a pretty quick process.

[Shelter]

It takes 3 weeks for garda vetting..

[polarcub]

Does it show you what the garda vetting report came back with?

It takes 3 weeks for garda vetting..

[Shelter]

Does it show you what the garda vetting report came back with?

It takes 3 weeks for garda vetting..

Yep ..Garda criminal records stamp on it.. which says "no convictions recorded "

[polarcub]

Received FOI, it had a scanned copy of:
- My application, along with all the documents I submitted
- The email and letter correspondence with the department
- Information on my stamp/file from GNIB
- 1 garda report that was commission within a few months of receiving the application

The file is ready for submission and no red flags. Despite that, they have not touched my file for over a year and a half! It's been literally collecting dust despite all the email enquiries, and asking TDs to submit questions to the Minister and the department.

[Shelter]

Received FOI, it had a scanned copy of:
- My application, along with all the documents I submitted
- The email and letter correspondence with the department
- Information on my stamp/file from GNIB
- 1 garda report that was commission within a few months of receiving the application

The file is ready for submission and no red flags. Despite that, they have not touched my file for over a year and a half! It's been literally collecting dust despite all the email enquiries, and asking TDs to submit questions to the Minister and the department.

How many time they requested garda vetting on ur application?

[polarcub]

[Based on legal advice]

The current situation at the department is there are a lot of delays. A straightforward application can take 18 months. (Apparently nationalities from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan are known to wait longer). There was already a backlog ahead of the 2019 court challenge, and when the legal challenge happened there was actually no processing for the full 4 months. The when covid happened processing halted for 6 months straight. There doesn't seem to be any real order to how and when applications get a decision - you can be lucky and it'll happen quickly or unlucky and wait years as your application collects dust.

To force a decision, you have to do a Judicial Review (JR). It's not a law, but it's a high court practise that you need to wait two years before making that application. A JR is the last resort. The steps towards forcing a decision is as follows:

1. Made a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Department
- This is free and can take 5-8 weeks to process (based on the current situation).
- You do need to see what's in your file first.
2. Send the 1st warning letter
- A lawyer threatens the department with JR proceedings
- they are given about 6 weeks to respond
- This may force a decision, or may generate a generic response. But if there are any issues with the application (e.g. security checks) it will be stated at this point.
- To be a credible threat you need to be close to your 2 year waiting mark (say up to 3/4 months prior) or past it
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
3. Send a 2nd warning letter (optional)
- depending on the response from the 1st letter your lawyer will determine if you need to do this
- Given another 6 weeks to respond
- You may get a decision at this stage
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
4. JR proceedings
- Your lawyer will instruct a barrister (takes about 2 weeks) and then makes an application to the High Courts for a JR
- The High Court will always issue an Order of Mandamus (which forces the department to make a decision)
- The department doesn't fight a JR to drag it out, you get a decision within a few days
- This option is costly because your lawyer will rely on a barrister, but you would be doing this as a last resort and your lawyer will have confidence you have a solid case
- You can pay up to 5k for this stage depending on how reputable your lawyer is, but at the end will get a decision (it's worth noting that several people on this forum paid 1-1.5k for a JR)

The entire JR process from the moment the first warning letter is sent is 6 months. You are not entitled to citizenship, but you are entitled to get a decision on your application in a reasonable time. If you work backwards, the earliest you can start thinking about this process if you want to force a decision is after the anniversary of the 1.5 year waiting mark.

[Paddy1996]

[Based on legal advice]

The current situation at the department is there are a lot of delays. A straightforward application can take 18 months. (Apparently nationalities from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan are known to wait longer). There was already a backlog ahead of the 2019 court challenge, and when the legal challenge happened there was actually no processing for the full 4 months. The when covid happened processing halted for 6 months straight. There doesn't seem to be any real order to how and when applications get a decision - you can be lucky and it'll happen quickly or unlucky and wait years as your application collects dust.

To force a decision, you have to do a Judicial Review (JR). It's not a law, but it's a high court practise that you need to wait two years before making that application. A JR is the last resort. The steps towards forcing a decision is as follows:

1. Made a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Department
- This is free and can take 5-8 weeks to process (based on the current situation).
- You do need to see what's in your file first.
2. Send the 1st warning letter
- A lawyer threatens the department with JR proceedings
- they are given about 6 weeks to respond
- This may force a decision, or may generate a generic response. But if there are any issues with the application (e.g. security checks) it will be stated at this point.
- To be a credible threat you need to be close to your 2 year waiting mark (say up to 3/4 months prior) or past it
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
3. Send a 2nd warning letter (optional)
- depending on the response from the 1st letter your lawyer will determine if you need to do this
- Given another 6 weeks to respond
- You may get a decision at this stage
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
4. JR proceedings
- Your lawyer will instruct a barrister (takes about 2 weeks) and then makes an application to the High Courts for a JR
- The High Court will always issue an Order of Mandamus (which forces the department to make a decision)
- The department doesn't fight a JR to drag it out, you get a decision within a few days
- This option is costly because your lawyer will rely on a barrister, but you would be doing this as a last resort and your lawyer will have confidence you have a solid case
- You can pay up to 5k for this stage depending on how reputable your lawyer is, but at the end will get a decision (it's worth noting that several people on this forum paid 1-1.5k for a JR)

The entire JR process from the moment the first warning letter is sent is 6 months. You are not entitled to citizenship, but you are entitled to get a decision on your application in a reasonable time. If you work backwards, the earliest you can start thinking about this process if you want to force a decision is after the anniversary of the 1.5 year waiting mark.

I have done the whole this process and still didint got decision as it’s was agreed by JR

[zigandzag]

- Information on my stamp/file from GNIB


I've seen a friend's FOI and it had only two GNIB docs. One print out from the GNIB of all stamps issued/renewed and their relevant issue/expiry dates in a table format and one page like a database profile entry with port of entry, Tel number, occupation, whether naturalized or not, spouse name, passport no. etc.

You mentioned they had GNIB information from your file....did you see like copies of all the documents you'd submitted at registration appointments to date or basically just what I mentioned above?

[polarcub]

As you described - an overview database profile page: name, nationality, date of entry, stamp, expiry date, etc.

- Information on my stamp/file from GNIB


I've seen a friend's FOI and it had only two GNIB docs. One print out from the GNIB of all stamps issued/renewed and their relevant issue/expiry dates in a table format and one page like a database profile entry with port of entry, Tel number, occupation, whether naturalized or not, spouse name, passport no. etc.

You mentioned they had GNIB information from your file....did you see like copies of all the documents you'd submitted at registration appointments to date or basically just what I mentioned above?

[polarcub]

Sorry to hear that. Has your lawyer advised why that is? It's so odd as it's a court order. Is it as a result of the pandemic? What are your options now legally speaking?

[Based on legal advice]

The current situation at the department is there are a lot of delays. A straightforward application can take 18 months. (Apparently nationalities from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan are known to wait longer). There was already a backlog ahead of the 2019 court challenge, and when the legal challenge happened there was actually no processing for the full 4 months. The when covid happened processing halted for 6 months straight. There doesn't seem to be any real order to how and when applications get a decision - you can be lucky and it'll happen quickly or unlucky and wait years as your application collects dust.

To force a decision, you have to do a Judicial Review (JR). It's not a law, but it's a high court practise that you need to wait two years before making that application. A JR is the last resort. The steps towards forcing a decision is as follows:

1. Made a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Department
- This is free and can take 5-8 weeks to process (based on the current situation).
- You do need to see what's in your file first.
2. Send the 1st warning letter
- A lawyer threatens the department with JR proceedings
- they are given about 6 weeks to respond
- This may force a decision, or may generate a generic response. But if there are any issues with the application (e.g. security checks) it will be stated at this point.
- To be a credible threat you need to be close to your 2 year waiting mark (say up to 3/4 months prior) or past it
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
3. Send a 2nd warning letter (optional)
- depending on the response from the 1st letter your lawyer will determine if you need to do this
- Given another 6 weeks to respond
- You may get a decision at this stage
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
4. JR proceedings
- Your lawyer will instruct a barrister (takes about 2 weeks) and then makes an application to the High Courts for a JR
- The High Court will always issue an Order of Mandamus (which forces the department to make a decision)
- The department doesn't fight a JR to drag it out, you get a decision within a few days
- This option is costly because your lawyer will rely on a barrister, but you would be doing this as a last resort and your lawyer will have confidence you have a solid case
- You can pay up to 5k for this stage depending on how reputable your lawyer is, but at the end will get a decision (it's worth noting that several people on this forum paid 1-1.5k for a JR)

The entire JR process from the moment the first warning letter is sent is 6 months. You are not entitled to citizenship, but you are entitled to get a decision on your application in a reasonable time. If you work backwards, the earliest you can start thinking about this process if you want to force a decision is after the anniversary of the 1.5 year waiting mark.

I have done the whole this process and still didint got decision as it’s was agreed by JR

[Paddy1996]

Sorry to hear that. Has your lawyer advised why that is? It's so odd as it's a court order. Is it as a result of the pandemic? What are your options now legally speaking?
She went back to the barrister and he told her that’s she should sent a warning letter to the department for a decision in 2 weeks time , if they won’t give a decision then she said we have to go back to court

[Based on legal advice]

The current situation at the department is there are a lot of delays. A straightforward application can take 18 months. (Apparently nationalities from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan are known to wait longer). There was already a backlog ahead of the 2019 court challenge, and when the legal challenge happened there was actually no processing for the full 4 months. The when covid happened processing halted for 6 months straight. There doesn't seem to be any real order to how and when applications get a decision - you can be lucky and it'll happen quickly or unlucky and wait years as your application collects dust.

To force a decision, you have to do a Judicial Review (JR). It's not a law, but it's a high court practise that you need to wait two years before making that application. A JR is the last resort. The steps towards forcing a decision is as follows:

1. Made a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Department
- This is free and can take 5-8 weeks to process (based on the current situation).
- You do need to see what's in your file first.
2. Send the 1st warning letter
- A lawyer threatens the department with JR proceedings
- they are given about 6 weeks to respond
- This may force a decision, or may generate a generic response. But if there are any issues with the application (e.g. security checks) it will be stated at this point.
- To be a credible threat you need to be close to your 2 year waiting mark (say up to 3/4 months prior) or past it
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
3. Send a 2nd warning letter (optional)
- depending on the response from the 1st letter your lawyer will determine if you need to do this
- Given another 6 weeks to respond
- You may get a decision at this stage
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
4. JR proceedings
- Your lawyer will instruct a barrister (takes about 2 weeks) and then makes an application to the High Courts for a JR
- The High Court will always issue an Order of Mandamus (which forces the department to make a decision)
- The department doesn't fight a JR to drag it out, you get a decision within a few days
- This option is costly because your lawyer will rely on a barrister, but you would be doing this as a last resort and your lawyer will have confidence you have a solid case
- You can pay up to 5k for this stage depending on how reputable your lawyer is, but at the end will get a decision (it's worth noting that several people on this forum paid 1-1.5k for a JR)

The entire JR process from the moment the first warning letter is sent is 6 months. You are not entitled to citizenship, but you are entitled to get a decision on your application in a reasonable time. If you work backwards, the earliest you can start thinking about this process if you want to force a decision is after the anniversary of the 1.5 year waiting mark.

I have done the whole this process and still didint got decision as it’s was agreed by JR

[Paddy1996]

Sorry to hear that. Has your lawyer advised why that is? It's so odd as it's a court order. Is it as a result of the pandemic? What are your options now legally speaking?

[Based on legal advice]

The current situation at the department is there are a lot of delays. A straightforward application can take 18 months. (Apparently nationalities from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan are known to wait longer). There was already a backlog ahead of the 2019 court challenge, and when the legal challenge happened there was actually no processing for the full 4 months. The when covid happened processing halted for 6 months straight. There doesn't seem to be any real order to how and when applications get a decision - you can be lucky and it'll happen quickly or unlucky and wait years as your application collects dust.

To force a decision, you have to do a Judicial Review (JR). It's not a law, but it's a high court practise that you need to wait two years before making that application. A JR is the last resort. The steps towards forcing a decision is as follows:

1. Made a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Department
- This is free and can take 5-8 weeks to process (based on the current situation).
- You do need to see what's in your file first.
2. Send the 1st warning letter
- A lawyer threatens the department with JR proceedings
- they are given about 6 weeks to respond
- This may force a decision, or may generate a generic response. But if there are any issues with the application (e.g. security checks) it will be stated at this point.
- To be a credible threat you need to be close to your 2 year waiting mark (say up to 3/4 months prior) or past it
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
3. Send a 2nd warning letter (optional)
- depending on the response from the 1st letter your lawyer will determine if you need to do this
- Given another 6 weeks to respond
- You may get a decision at this stage
- It can cost you around c.200 EUR
4. JR proceedings
- Your lawyer will instruct a barrister (takes about 2 weeks) and then makes an application to the High Courts for a JR
- The High Court will always issue an Order of Mandamus (which forces the department to make a decision)
- The department doesn't fight a JR to drag it out, you get a decision within a few days
- This option is costly because your lawyer will rely on a barrister, but you would be doing this as a last resort and your lawyer will have confidence you have a solid case
- You can pay up to 5k for this stage depending on how reputable your lawyer is, but at the end will get a decision (it's worth noting that several people on this forum paid 1-1.5k for a JR)

The entire JR process from the moment the first warning letter is sent is 6 months. You are not entitled to citizenship, but you are entitled to get a decision on your application in a reasonable time. If you work backwards, the earliest you can start thinking about this process if you want to force a decision is after the anniversary of the 1.5 year waiting mark.

I have done the whole this process and still didint got decision as it’s was agreed by JR

She went back to the barrister and he told her that’s she should sent a warning letter to the department for a decision in 2 weeks time , if they won’t give a decision then she said we have to go back to court

[facistwon]

Pity to say, it seems like Paddy1996, your solicitor is acting as very lazy, fearful, I hope I'm wrong.

JR, I understand is just a tool, not necessarily a guaranteed result will be produced. Be it a decision with in a timeframe or not.

Consequently, your solicitor could have calculated this all and let it move forward before the judge and advised you about this beforehand in case you were not aware of.

Sounds very laid-back approach by a solicitor.

If I'm not wrong your solicitor may have great google reviews but just so you know I run a group of over 350-400 people from our community and a large number of members have a negative experience from this solicitor having'excellent google reviews'.

Not criticizing your solicitor but I'm assuming they are over loaded, hence lack of deep interest in cases, efficiency etc....

I know a close friend who had a terrific experience with the solicitor and had been fighting got nearly 3 years still no joy. Total WASTE OF TIME, MONEY, ENERGY with this solicitor.

I'm not going to name as it's not allowed on this forum but I'm assuming many probably would have known by now who I refer to, having so-called highest number of'great reviews' on google.

Not this one is based on as a student in law, to all those planning or have taken steps to take JR, please be advised
JR (mandamus) is just a gadget and nothing else. Dept not necessarily going to give a decision because judge more likely give a month before forcing dept for a decision.

Even when the terms agreed on JR for a certain timeframe, dept may or may not issue a decision as it was NOT a court decision.

Not Against the JR, but in certain mandamus applications and pandemic scenarios, and truthfully, it's a Waste of time , money.

[facistwon]

Decision to get only when it's ordered by a judge, which may go beyond 4-6 months during current working climate.

By then, dept may already announced a decision.

This is called SYSTEM. Like it it not, it's designed as such by those we maybe aware of....

[Paddy1996]

Decision to get only when it's ordered by a judge, which may go beyond 4-6 months during current working climate.

By then, dept may already announced a decision.

This is called SYSTEM. Like it it not, it's designed as such by those we maybe aware of....

Well the forum dosent allow to show names , but my solicitor it’s well known in Ireland and I am sure they know what they are doing .

[fuzzbizz]

Thanks for all the details! I just submitted my FOI request. This is ridiculous and I'm sick of putting my life on hold or not being able to visit family for a few months.

[klick02]

Thanks for all the details! I just submitted my FOI request. This is ridiculous and I'm sick of putting my life on hold or not being able to visit family for a few months.

when did you make your naturalization application?

[fuzzbizz]

when did you make your naturalization application?

Mar 2019 - 2 years ago

[pluto1992]

My problem with going the JR route is why do some applicants have to spend more for the same privilege as any other applicant who gets a decision within months? Time and again we have seen on this forum where applications have not been touched in years and in some cases only action is a yearly ritual of Garda vetting. (In my FOI I had 3 Garda vetting reports last year, this year it must be four). BTW what a waste of Gardai's time this nonsensical and retarded exercise of requesting a Garda vetting report of the same person every year. And some people on this forum try to normalise this absolutely shameful and disgusting treatment of future Irish citizens all in the name of security checks and 'privilege not right' thingy. Well application is sitting there in your department, no one is looking at it, how could anyone possibly defend this is beyond me.

[Shelter]

My problem with going the JR route is why do some applicants have to spend more for the same privilege as any other applicant who gets a decision within months? Time and again we have seen on this forum where applications have not been touched in years and in some cases only action is a yearly ritual of Garda vetting. (In my FOI I had 3 Garda vetting reports last year, this year it must be four). BTW what a waste of Gardai's time this nonsensical and retarded exercise of requesting a Garda vetting report of the same person every year. And some people on this forum try to normalise this absolutely shameful and disgusting treatment of future Irish citizens all in the name of security checks and 'privilege not right' thingy. Well application is sitting there in your department, no one is looking at it, how could anyone possibly defend this is beyond me.

I know ..it is vary frustrating ..but we have no option..even JR is not a help anymore ..

[polarcub]

How do you even know who his lawyer? We can't publish details like that on this forum. And how is this the fault of his lawyer? Based on what Paddy is saying his lawyer did all the right steps, and it seems like the department is showing how poorly they're operating.

Speaking of actual legal advice, a JR gives the courts an ability to issue an Order of Mandamus - it's an actual court order to the department to make a decision in an application. The department not adhering to this order in this instance - well it seems like an anomaly and possibly borne out of the current pandemic. We don't know the full details here and why this has happened.

Either way, whether someone wants to take the legal route or not, that's their personal decision, and the lawyer will advise them of their case. No one really knows when their application will get approved - there are no straightforward timelines.

Your opinion on whether it's worth someone's time or money - well that's your personal opinion. That's not the objective of this forum, it's to share credible, informative, and objective information to what people's options are.

Pity to say, it seems like Paddy1996, your solicitor is acting as very lazy, fearful, I hope I'm wrong.

JR, I understand is just a tool, not necessarily a guaranteed result will be produced. Be it a decision with in a timeframe or not.

Consequently, your solicitor could have calculated this all and let it move forward before the judge and advised you about this beforehand in case you were not aware of.

Sounds very laid-back approach by a solicitor.

If I'm not wrong your solicitor may have great google reviews but just so you know I run a group of over 350-400 people from our community and a large number of members have a negative experience from this solicitor having'excellent google reviews'.

Not criticizing your solicitor but I'm assuming they are over loaded, hence lack of deep interest in cases, efficiency etc....

I know a close friend who had a terrific experience with the solicitor and had been fighting got nearly 3 years still no joy. Total WASTE OF TIME, MONEY, ENERGY with this solicitor.

I'm not going to name as it's not allowed on this forum but I'm assuming many probably would have known by now who I refer to, having so-called highest number of'great reviews' on google.

Not this one is based on as a student in law, to all those planning or have taken steps to take JR, please be advised
JR (mandamus) is just a gadget and nothing else. Dept not necessarily going to give a decision because judge more likely give a month before forcing dept for a decision.

Even when the terms agreed on JR for a certain timeframe, dept may or may not issue a decision as it was NOT a court decision.

Not Against the JR, but in certain mandamus applications and pandemic scenarios, and truthfully, it's a Waste of time , money.

[Paddy1996]

The last letter before we go back to to court

PRE-LITIGATION LETTER
Dear Sirs, Madame,
We refer to the above referenced pending application and to our most recent letter of **rd February ****.
Mr xxxx Judicial Review proceedings, High Court Record Number **********were struck out of the High Court on the ** December **** on the basis of a settlement agreement.
This agreement required the Minister to determine the application within a nine week period, that is by the ** February ****
The Minister is now in default of this agreement by ten days.
We write to request that the decision is issued within the next 14 day period. If we do not receive the decision within that timeframe we put you on notice that our clients will seek redress before the courts for a breach of the settlement agreement. We will rely on this letter to seek the costs of said proceedings from date of filing.



How do you even know who his lawyer? We can't publish details like that on this forum. And how is this the fault of his lawyer? Based on what Paddy is saying his lawyer did all the right steps, and it seems like the department is showing how poorly they're operating.

Speaking of actual legal advice, a JR gives the courts an ability to issue an Order of Mandamus - it's an actual court order to the department to make a decision in an application. The department not adhering to this order in this instance - well it seems like an anomaly and possibly borne out of the current pandemic. We don't know the full details here and why this has happened.

Either way, whether someone wants to take the legal route or not, that's their personal decision, and the lawyer will advise them of their case. No one really knows when their application will get approved - there are no straightforward timelines.

Your opinion on whether it's worth someone's time or money - well that's your personal opinion. That's not the objective of this forum, it's to share credible, informative, and objective information to what people's options are.

Pity to say, it seems like Paddy1996, your solicitor is acting as very lazy, fearful, I hope I'm wrong.

JR, I understand is just a tool, not necessarily a guaranteed result will be produced. Be it a decision with in a timeframe or not.

Consequently, your solicitor could have calculated this all and let it move forward before the judge and advised you about this beforehand in case you were not aware of.

Sounds very laid-back approach by a solicitor.

If I'm not wrong your solicitor may have great google reviews but just so you know I run a group of over 350-400 people from our community and a large number of members have a negative experience from this solicitor having'excellent google reviews'.

Not criticizing your solicitor but I'm assuming they are over loaded, hence lack of deep interest in cases, efficiency etc....

I know a close friend who had a terrific experience with the solicitor and had been fighting got nearly 3 years still no joy. Total WASTE OF TIME, MONEY, ENERGY with this solicitor.

I'm not going to name as it's not allowed on this forum but I'm assuming many probably would have known by now who I refer to, having so-called highest number of'great reviews' on google.

Not this one is based on as a student in law, to all those planning or have taken steps to take JR, please be advised
JR (mandamus) is just a gadget and nothing else. Dept not necessarily going to give a decision because judge more likely give a month before forcing dept for a decision.

Even when the terms agreed on JR for a certain timeframe, dept may or may not issue a decision as it was NOT a court decision.

Not Against the JR, but in certain mandamus applications and pandemic scenarios, and truthfully, it's a Waste of time , money.

[water_tank1]

Looking for advice

I'm thinking of sending an FOI request to see what's been happening with my Citizenship application. I've been waiting for 20 months now. I seem to be getting the usual copy & paste replies every time I request an update.

Do you think it will have an impact on my application if I send an FOI request?

[Vorona]

Looking for advice

I'm thinking of sending an FOI request to see what's been happening with my Citizenship application. I've been waiting for 20 months now. I seem to be getting the usual copy & paste replies every time I request an update.

Do you think it will have an impact on my application if I send an FOI request?

No. A copy of your file will be given to you for your personal use. Under the Data protection laws anyone has a right to get access to their data and this is done through the process of making a request. It will not make any negative or positive impact on your application for naturalisation.