RoA CoE for a British citizen child born in India

[vinny]

do check with the airline too.

[naveenk]

Hi vinny,

Checked ith BA and they told me letter of consent is not required as long as valid passports and visas are there.
However as I booked the flight ticket but not travelling, they suggested my wife to carry a photocopy of my bank statement of the card with which I booked the ticket.

[armaan15]

Hi Hima, Vinny , Srikanth and all ,

I was hoping to get some advice from all who have successfully applied for ROA for their kids born in India. I (father) am a naturalised British citizen and my wife has an Indian passport with ILR. We had twins, born in India, in October 2015. I am now in the process of initiating the application for their ROA. I will be applying from Mumbai and I wonder whether:

- A postal application would suffice, or does it have to be made in person?
- As they are twins and we have only one set of original documents ( passport, naturalisation cert etc), how would it work?
- Exactly what form needs to be filled out?

Thanks,
Ari.

[chiku1980]

Hi Shrikant, Hima and Naveen,
I am in the process of filling up the application for COE to ROA for my child and I had a question around the question of nationality.

I had assumed that the nationality should be British and we can mention Indian as "other nationality". The point being that we are asking for a COE to ROA on the basis of the british citizenship.

However I saw Himas post as per below which seems to be stating the contrary

[b]"Passport and Travel Information
1. Nationality - British
No, Indian national
(They specify as mentioned in ur travel document, so give Indian only.)

2. Do you currently hold, or have you ever held, any other nationality or nationalities? (yes or no) ?
No (India does'nt allow dual citizenship, so mentioning british wud be wrong for ur baby)"[/b]

Can you guys please confirm whether you put the nationality as Indian or British?

[Richard W]

"Passport and Travel Information
1. Nationality - British
No, Indian national
(They specify as mentioned in ur travel document, so give Indian only.)

2. Do you currently hold, or have you ever held, any other nationality or nationalities? (yes or no) ?
No (India does'nt allow dual citizenship, so mentioning british wud be wrong for ur baby)"

Wrong! Indian citizen children may hold another nationality from birth, but they mustn't hold a foreign passport.

If your baby isn't a British citizen, he doesn't have right of abode in the UK. The only people born since 1982 who have right of abode in the UK are British citizens.

[chiku1980]

Hi Richard,
I agree with what you are saying and also agree that we may mention current nationality as Indian based on the travel document.

However in that case shouldnt the answer to the second question "do you hold any other nationality" be a YES and the other nationality being British.

As you state, the child cannot have a right to abode unless the child is a british citizen. Therefore if we answer the questions as

Current nationality = Indian
Other nationality currently held = None

Then this combination in itself will mean that a right to abode cannot be granted since the child is not a british citizen.

Shouldnt the answers be as below?

Current nationality = Indian
Other nationality currently held = British

[chiku1980]

The application for the right of abode for my daughter has been successful.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has helped in along the way.

It took roughly 3 weeks to get this through but that was because of a hiccup in between. Without it we probably would have got in around 2 weeks.

Just a note for anyone else who is in the process or would be applying in the future -
The british high commission asked us to prove my wifes pregnancy with our daugther.For this they asked for pre pregnancy/post pregnancy photos or medical records etc.

2 weeks after the submission of the application we were asked to mail or fax these. After we did this we got the approval in a couple of days.

I know Naveen has mentioned that he did include baby photos with the application. But I did not see anyone else who had done it.

Anyone applying fresh can bear this in mind, take appropriate pre pregnancy and post pregnancy photos and include them with the application.

[sshanmug]

Hi,

Congardulations.

Can you please post the list of documents you submitted for your kid's ROA Application?

I am going to apply in few weeks and hence need this info.

Thanks and Regards,
sshanmug

[chiku1980]

Hi,
Documents that I had submitted where -

1. Baby's original passport
2. Baby's full birth certificate
3. Our marriage certificate
4. My wife's birth certificate
5. My naturalisation certificate
6. My employment reference letter
7. Salary slips for past 6 months
8. Bank statements for past 6 months
9. Photocopy of my british passport - All pages [had the photopage attested by a solicitor in the UK]
10. Photocopy of my wife's Indian Passport - All pages
11. Photocopy of my wife's UK BRP
12. Cover letter from me
13. Cover letter from my wife
14. TB Certificate

As mentioned above after the application we were asked to provide evidence of my wife's pregnancy with the baby. We provided them with photos pre and post pregnancy and medical records (antenatal records, scan reports etc). So you may want to include some photos atleast and may be some medical records.

All the best with your application!

[sshanmug]

Thanks a lot.

My wife doesnt have birth certifcate.Is it Mandatory - Is her Passport not enough for proof of date of birth?

Also, it is mandatory to get my UK Passport attested by solicitor?

Kindly clarify.

Thanks and Regards,
sshanmug

[chiku1980]

As with everything else there is no "mandatory" list of documents to be submitted.

The documents need to be sufficient enough for the case officer to take a decision.

Parents’ full birth certificate, registration or naturalization certificate is listed as one of the documents which the applicant "can" give in support of the ROA application. This leads me to believe that it is an important document to submit.

Hima02 from as earlier post on this topic seemed to be in a similar situation where she did not have a birth certificate. She did submit a Mother's Affidavit for birth certificate and 10th class certificate instead.

As far as attestation of UK passport is concerned - I wouldnt think that would be mandatory. I submitted a non attested copy of Indian passport of my wife. For UK passport they should always be able to confirm details. If they didnt necesarily need attested indian passport copy dont think they would need attested UK passport copy. It was more of a belt and braces exercise for me to get it attested.

[sshanmug]

Hi,

Can any one provide a template for Mother's Affidavit for birth certificate and 10th class cert.

Thanks and Regards,
Senthil

[Bobthemoggie]

Hi All

A) Has anybody with Certificate of Entitlement managed to Renew Indian passport?
i.e. Are there any issues in renewing minor's Indian passport if Certificate of Entitlement is endorsed in the Indian Passport.
[Please correct me, if Certificate of Entitlement is issued as separate BRP card, just in case]

B) In worst case, if Indian Authorities refuse to renew the passport, is it possible to obtain full British passport based on the Certificate Entitlement (especially if we are living outside Uk for example somewhere in EU country)?

C) In general is it possible to convert Certificate of Entitlement into British passport (for minor) if you (as parents holding British passports) wish to do so?

Could expert advise on these complex scenarios.

Cheers

[secret.simon]

A) Has anybody with Certificate of Entitlement managed to Renew Indian passport?i.e. Are there any issues in renewing minor's Indian passport if Certificate of Entitlement is endorsed in the Indian Passport.

I do not have personal experience, but I can't imagine that it would cause a problem. The endorsement itself only states that the person has the Right of Abode in the UK. It does not state anything about the person being a British citizen (which is why the CoE-RoA does not give freedom of movement in Europe). From the viewpoint of somebody examining the document, it is like having a lifelong ILR. So, I can't imagine the Indian authorities not renewing an Indian passport.

B) In worst case, if Indian Authorities refuse to renew the passport, is it possible to obtain full British passport based on the Certificate Entitlement (especially if we are living outside Uk for example somewhere in EU country)?

Of course you can, if the person is a British citizen.

But, getting a full British passport will automatically revoke the Indian citizenship of a minor born with both British and Indian citizenship. Also, once a British passport is received, I believe (I could be wrong), you can't go back to a CoE-RoA in a foreign passport.

C) In general is it possible to convert Certificate of Entitlement into British passport (for minor) if you (as parents holding British passports) wish to do so?

Yes, but see the caveat above.

[Bobthemoggie]

A) Has anybody with Certificate of Entitlement managed to Renew Indian passport?i.e. Are there any issues in renewing minor's Indian passport if Certificate of Entitlement is endorsed in the Indian Passport.

I do not have personal experience, but I can't imagine that it would cause a problem. The endorsement itself only states that the person has the Right of Abode in the UK. It does not state anything about the person being a British citizen (which is why the CoE-RoA does not give freedom of movement in Europe). From the viewpoint of somebody examining the document, it is like having a lifelong ILR. So, I can't imagine the Indian authorities not renewing an Indian passport.

B) In worst case, if Indian Authorities refuse to renew the passport, is it possible to obtain full British passport based on the Certificate Entitlement (especially if we are living outside Uk for example somewhere in EU country)?

Of course you can, if the person is a British citizen.

But, getting a full British passport will automatically revoke the Indian citizenship of a minor born with both British and Indian citizenship. Also, once a British passport is received, I believe (I could be wrong), you can't go back to a CoE-RoA in a foreign passport.

C) In general is it possible to convert Certificate of Entitlement into British passport (for minor) if you (as parents holding British passports) wish to do so?

Yes, but see the caveat above.

Dear Expert Member,

Thanks for your in depth response.
I have further query-
> Consider a scenario, after getting CoE-RoA on minor's foreign passport, if parents (British naturalised citizens ) are living outside UK, then if for example if we decide to apply for minor's British passport (still living outside UK), will it be possible?

or UK residency will be a constraint.

> For child born (Outside UK) to British Naturlised father & at that time ILR holding Mother, MN1 formality is not required for either for CoE-RoA or Full British passport. Kindly advise
Kindly throw some light on there.

Cheers
then say if we decide to apply for British

[secret.simon]

> Consider a scenario, after getting CoE-RoA on minor's foreign passport, if parents (British naturalised citizens ) are living outside UK, then if for example if we decide to apply for minor's British passport (still living outside UK), will it be possible?

Yes. UK residency is not required. CoE-RoA is only issued to British citizens (apart from some Commonwealth citizens who had it before 1983) and hence if it is issued, that means that the child is already a British citizen.

> For child born (Outside UK) to British Naturlised father & at that time ILR holding Mother, MN1 formality is not required for either for CoE-RoA or Full British passport. Kindly adviseKindly throw some light on there.

Provided the child is born on or after the date of the father's citizenship certificate, then yes, the child is born a British citizen by descent and does not require MN1 registration.

Such a child born to an Indian citizen holding ILR in India (and the mother appears to be such a citizen, from your description) would lose Indian citizenship at either 18 years of age or when s/he acquires a foreign passport, whichever is first.

[Bobthemoggie]

> Consider a scenario, after getting CoE-RoA on minor's foreign passport, if parents (British naturalised citizens ) are living outside UK, then if for example if we decide to apply for minor's British passport (still living outside UK), will it be possible?

Yes. UK residency is not required. CoE-RoA is only issued to British citizens (apart from some Commonwealth citizens who had it before 1983) and hence if it is issued, that means that the child is already a British citizen.

> For child born (Outside UK) to British Naturlised father & at that time ILR holding Mother, MN1 formality is not required for either for CoE-RoA or Full British passport. Kindly adviseKindly throw some light on there.

Provided the child is born on or after the date of the father's citizenship certificate, then yes, the child is born a British citizen by descent and does not require MN1 registration.

Such a child born to an Indian citizen holding ILR in India (and the mother appears to be such a citizen, from your description) would lose Indian citizenship at either 18 years of age or when s/he acquires a foreign passport, whichever is first.

Thanks for quick response.
Just to clarify on last paragraph-
Mother is Indian citizen holding Indian passport & UK-ILR & will be completing her British citizenship ceremony (naturalisation) very soon.

Thanks

[Reddytwins]

"Passport and Travel Information
1. Nationality - British
No, Indian national
(They specify as mentioned in ur travel document, so give Indian only.)

2. Do you currently hold, or have you ever held, any other nationality or nationalities? (yes or no) ?
No (India does'nt allow dual citizenship, so mentioning british wud be wrong for ur baby)"

Hi Hima can you please help me out. How the nationalities question would be no here because we are applying for UK so mentioning British isn't appropriate?
[/quote]
Wrong! Indian citizen children may hold another nationality from birth, but they mustn't hold a foreign passport.

If your baby isn't a British citizen, he doesn't have right of abode in the UK. The only people born since 1982 who have right of abode in the UK are British citizens.[/quote]

[Bobthemoggie]

Hi Guys,

I have one query-
Current situation: 1 parent: British naturalised citizen+OCI holder, other parent: Indian Passport holder+ILR
Child Born in India
If after getting Indian Passport for Minor, if another parent also becomes British & surrenders their Indian Passport, then in this situation - Can child continue to hold Indian passport (hopefully with RoA-CoE) till his 18th Birthday?

or As both parents are British, so child's passport will also be revoked / not extended?

Could experts provide their thoughts on this, please

Cheers

[secret.simon]

If after getting Indian Passport for Minor, if another parent also becomes British & surrenders their Indian Passport, then in this situation - Can child continue to hold Indian passport (hopefully with RoA-CoE) till his 18th Birthday?

Provided the parent's Indian citizenship is terminated automatically by acquisition of a foreign citizenship (Section 9 of the Indian Citizenship Act 1955) and is not renounced (Section 8 of that Act), the child continues to hold Indian citizenship. But I can imagine that may not be completely clear to Indian babudom.

[Bobthemoggie]

If after getting Indian Passport for Minor, if another parent also becomes British & surrenders their Indian Passport, then in this situation - Can child continue to hold Indian passport (hopefully with RoA-CoE) till his 18th Birthday?

Provided the parent's Indian citizenship is terminated automatically by acquisition of a foreign citizenship (Section 9 of the Indian Citizenship Act 1955) and is not renounced (Section 8 of that Act), the child continues to hold Indian citizenship. But I can imagine that may not be completely clear to Indian babudom.

Thanks for your response.
I was looking at Section 8 & Section 9 of Indian Citizenship act 1955
And when compared that with 'Application for surrender of Indian Passport/Citizenship' on VFS noticed following sentence:
"y. I have acquired British/ Foreign nationality on ____________ and consequently have obtained British/ Foreign Passport.
Therefore I hereby renounce my Indian citizenship and surrender my Indian Passport. "

Also Indian embassy talks about: Renunciation of Citizenship
So it apparently seems to point to - point 8 rather than the point 9 of Act

What are your thoughts on it

Thanks

[sma_tier1]

Can someone help me by answering my below query. Thanks in advance.

"Father is naturalised British citizen and mother holds Indian passport with ILR. Child born after father was naturalised as British citizen. If the child is granted the "Right of Abode" in its new/renewed Indian passports, can the child continue with ROA even after crossing 18 years of age ? "

[secret.simon]

Can someone help me by answering my below query. Thanks in advance."Father is naturalised British citizen and mother holds Indian passport with ILR. Child born after father was naturalised as British citizen. If the child is granted the "Right of Abode" in its new/renewed Indian passports, can the child continue with ROA even after crossing 18 years of age ? "

If child is born to an Indian parent in India, there is a plausible argument that such a child can retain his Indian citizenship past the age of eighteen, provided he never applies for a non-Indian passport. See Sections 3 and 4 (especially 4(1A)) of the (Indian) Citizenship Act 1955. Best of luck arguing that point with Indian babus.

Also, see the point above by BobTheMoggie as regards the possible effect of acquisition of foreign nationality by the parent on the child's Indian citizenship.

[sma_tier1]

Hi secret.simon,

Thanks for your reply. Went through the Indian Citizenship rules 4(1A) and it gives more clarity.
Thanks again.

[dude_123]

hi guys i am about to submit the COE application for my child. is it mandatory to provide the original bank statement or online print out of the bank statement copy will do. i am attaching the copy of payslips and p60 with application .