Applying for a Schengen-Visa for an EU-spouse in Ireland

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

However, as we live in Dublin and there are no border-checkpoints between the UK and Ireland, we now travel to the UK as we please, as we found this UK-internal regulation.

Before an Immigration Officer refuses admission to a non-EEA national under
Regulation 11(2) because s/he does not produce an EEA family permit, the IO must
give the non-EEA national reasonable opportunity to provide by other means proof
that he/she is a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that
national or join him/her in the UK.

From this I gather that it is not illegal to go there, and the fact that there are no border-checkpoints makes it easy.

However, we carry the marriage-certificate with us, should we end up being checked.

This is just a standard part of Directive 2004/38/EC. Same provision is in Irish law. And same provision in Schengen.

[ca.funke]

This is just a standard part of Directive 2004/38/EC. Same provision is in Irish law. And same provision in Schengen.

Is my conclusion valid? Ie, when only visiting the UK, it is thus NOT illegal to "just" cross the border from Ireland, as long as a visa-national is married to an EU-citizen?

Another question, maybe not that relevant, is: The Isle Of Man sais that it's "legal" to enter the IOM, when it's legal to enter the UK.

This leads to difficult questions: If the UK does (illegally) not implement an EU-law, and the IOM sais "we do as the UK does", then I guess the UK can be sued by the EU, while the IOM can not, as it's not in the EU.

So if the UK (illegally) sais "you need an EEA-family-permit", then that's actually illegal by the UK, but legal in the IOM?

(I'd actually really like to know, as due to a lack of alternatives it's be nice to go there for a weekend )


---> The EU should agree (even without an EU-wide Schengen) on ONE card or visa, that allows travelling EU-wide. This would allow border-guards to most easily identify who may travel, and who may not.

---> The current chaos serves no-one, and just cannot be very secure. If they can't even determine who may travel, I actually do not trust them to handle a database of "unwanted" people, and actually use it...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The Directive does not speak about entering member states illegally.

But it very clearly says that if you do not have something which is required, for instance a visa or a passport, and you can prove that you are covered by the right of free movement, then they have to let you in. There is also ECJ case law which clearly lays this out.

What is the problem you have in entering the UK? Can you be specific about what the UK is doing which is illegal?

[ca.funke]

The UK is doing the following, which I deem illegal:

When outlining to UK-Visas that
- I am German and
- my wife is Lebanese and
- we live in Dublin and
- we want to go to Belfast for a weekend

they warned us that we are NOT allowed to "just" go, as my wife will require a Visa.

However, I do not agree - I think we are allowed to go, as described above. As there is no border-checkpoint, I just wonder what would happen if we end-up being checked somewhere in "the North".

Another question is - we'd like to go to London for a weekend also. Can we "just" go - what will happen at airports? Dublin/London? Would we make it, or get stuck somehow?

[ca.funke]

Hi all,

I lodged an application for a one-year Schengen multiple-entry visa, after having talked to SOLVIT and the ministry of foreign affairs of the country I want to (regularly) visit.

I included the below letter, and interestingly enough they were very polite and said we can collect the visa after 1 week.

Sounds promising, I'll post if and what kind of visa was issued, once the week passed

Rgds, Christian

Dear Madam or Sir,
please find attached a Schengen-Visa application for my wife.
Please issue this visa as follows:

• validity-period one year (or at least until the expiry of the current Irish-residency-Visa)
• starting when the current Schengen-Visa expires
• valid for 60 days
• multiple entry

Reasons:
I am a Belgian citizen, living in Ireland with my wife. We would like to occasionally visit my parents in Belgium, without having to apply for a new visa all the time.

Fraud cannot be an issue with this application: As I am a Belgian citizen, we would have the right to settle in Belgium, which we may actually do at a later stage. However, we would like to stay in Ireland for now. Thus, the visa is purely a bureaucratic issue, nothing more.

My wife currently holds a Schengen-Visa which will expire on (expiry date). It would therefore be nice if a follow-up visa would cover the time immediately after the current one expires.

A one-year visa CAN be issued, regardless of the fact that my wife's residence-permit in Ireland will expire on (expiry-date): Being the spouse of an EU-citizen, the Irish visa will be prolonged beyond doubt.

Furthermore, even if this was not the case, as the spouse of a Belgian citizen we would have - again - the right to go to Belgium in this case.

I discussed this matter with the ministry of foreign affairs in Brussels. They advised me to write this letter and to mention the following: EU-directive 2004/38/EC governs the treatment of EU-spouses and their freedom of movement.

This directive lays out that visas for spouses of EU-citizens MUST be granted

• at an accelerated processing time
• asking ONLY for
• the 2 passports of the spouses AND
• the marriage-certificate, which establishes the family-ties

If you have any questions, please contact the following people in the ministry in Brussels, who will confirm the above explanations and laws:

• The SOLVIT contact
• Employee of the foreigners' service which SOLVIT referred me to

The website of the commission also explains this law and the obligations of consular officers:
(printouts attached, following please find the links:)

• English
• Dutch
• French

As a summary:

• A Schengen-Visa up to the expiry of the current Irish residence permit MUST be issued according to the law.
• A one-year Schengen-Visa CAN be issued, and would be greatly appreciated.

Should you decide not even to issue a Schengen-Visa up to the expiry of the Irish residency permit, please inform me about the grounds of the decision in writing. When doing so, please include the file# under which the application is processed.

Thank you very much,
Regards, (...)

Edit timeline:
28th April: Lodged application.
07th May: Visa is valid for 57 days (?!) and (only) until the expiry-date of the current Irish Visa.

[archigabe]

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

From the European Commission's website.It sounds too good to be true!

DIrective 2004/38/EC makes travelling easier for family members who previously had to have an entry visa.

No more visas for visits to the United Kingdom or any other Member State that does not yet participate in Schengen when the family members who do not hold nationality of a Member State have a residence card.

Angelo (24), an Italian studying biophysics in the Czech Republic, and his Russian wife Svetlana (23) are planning to visit their friends in Glasgow for two weeks in summer. When they called the UK embassy in Prague to arrange for a visa, they were surprised to learn that the new EU directive on free movement exempted Svetlana from the visa requirement as she holds a Czech residence card.

[ca.funke]

Hi Archigabe,

The above sounds so great

But, unfortunately, we both know that the relevant authorities, as well as the relevant border-guards, are widely unaware of the legal situation.

Also, as long as the GNIB -illegally- do not handle EU4FAM applications within the required time-frame (6 months), or -illegally- request "prior residency in other EU-states" all of the above remains a dream.

Not to mention the first 6 months, in which you're totally stuck without additional visas.

I agree it's a dream that can be enforced through the courts. But my dream is that I can travel within the EU having no complications, neither boarding planes, nor entering different countries...

I wish THIS dream would come true soon.

Regards, Christian

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Very well done letter!

[ca.funke]

For my above Visa-application:

28th April: Lodged application.
07th May: Visa granted, valid for 57 days (?!) but (only) until the expiry-date of the current Irish Visa.

The one thing that is now driving me (personally) crazy is the following, which (yet again) shows that the whole Visa "system" in the EU is not a "system" but one big mess:

• First we applied for Schengen, but got "BeNeLux" (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg).
• Then we asked for Schengen explicitly, and were told a Schengen cannot be issued concurrently with BeNeLux, at least not from the Belgian embassy. (quote "It's impossible to issue two visas for (not from!) the same state concurrently")
• So we asked for a Schengen from the Austrian embassy (no problems, valid till June 31st)
• The new (Belgian) Schengen was demanded to succeed the old (Austrian) Schengen, without gap. (see letter above)
• But it is valid from 01st June, so what was previously described as "impossible", is now suddenly possible - the Austrian and the Belgian Schengen-visas are valid concurrently in June.

IMHO this also shows that the Schengen-database cannot be properly interlinked.

The whole Schengen-system, except for the fortunate fact that the internal borders vanished, is (IMHO) a joke. Especially the rules which govern the admittance of Visa-required nationals.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

IMHO this also shows that the Schengen-database cannot be properly interlinked.

The whole Schengen-system, except for the fortunate fact that the internal borders vanished, is (IMHO) a joke. Especially the rules which govern the admittance of Visa-required nationals.

:evil:

This simply shows that the individual countries (and more specifically embassies) decide to do whatever they want on visa issue. I don’t think it is anything to do with any systems at all.

They “can’tâ€

[ca.funke]

Hi "directive",

always good to hear from you:)

The Austrian is Type "C", it sais nothing else.
The Belgian is Type "C", and under remarks it sais "BNL2".

I do not know what that means, luckily I don't have to care.

On a sidenote: The clerk in the Belgian embassy told me today, without me even asking, that with an EU4FAM we do not need a visa anymore. Unbelievable! 2 months ago I asked them exactly this specifically, and they told me that this is NOT so. (seems they can learn, considering 2004/38/EC came into effect some time 2004 that's "only" 4 years)

This may be due to the fact that the clerk I've always seen in the Belgian embassy was pregnant, and now there's a different clerk.