Received SAR for travel dates, basic information missing

[contorted_svy]

You are over the maximum absences for the 3 year route, so you must reconstruct your trips for 5 years and see what the total is. I would not gamble, it is an expensive application and it is discretionary, ie not compulsory. It is up to applicants to keep accurate records and make sure they respect the requirements, in my view an application submitted hastily in your circumstances could lead to a lot of stress over forgotten details while also being out of the country. I would advise to take the time to reconstruct your travel history and consider the guidance accordingly (you will also need to submit biometrics within 45 working days, so you need to have a plan to come back for that in the near future) and only when you are confident you respect all requirements, hit submit and pay the fee. This being said, it is your money and you can make your own decision.

[JeremyG]

In my case (over 90 days in last 12 months AND over 270, albeit less than 300 in 3Y) does the following help my case in any way:

"the excess absences were an unavoidable consequence of the nature of the applicant’s career, such as a merchant seaman or employment with a multinational company based in the UK with frequent travel abroad"

My career is tech entrepreneur which means traveling to meet investors, customers, suppliers, speak at conferences etc (and I came on an entrepreneur visa). My family, primary (only) residence and estate are in UK

[contorted_svy]

Difficult to know, as your job isn't strictly related to travel (eg an airline steward). Visa you came with doesn't matter for citizenship. I would suggest reducing your absences for the next few months until you get under 90 days in the last 12 months and apply then.

[AmazonianX]

Difficult to know, as your job isn't strictly related to travel (eg an airline steward). Visa you came with doesn't matter for citizenship. I would suggest reducing your absences for the next few months until you get under 90 days in the last 12 months and apply then.

Do you mean if it were to be a job role like airline steward, airline pilot then more than 90days in last 12months won't matter?

[contorted_svy]

I mean I could see a case being made about that kind of jobs where travel is explicitly required, but definitely not for other jobs where travel isn't strictly a requirement. I wouldn't know how to present the case though.

[JeremyG]

1. I am confused on the basics, for what exactly is this specific point of discretion good for? It seems to cover only over 270/450 nothing to do with 90? IF you fit into this discretion (i.e. accepted by the caseworker), does it cover the double whammy of over 90 and over 270?

2. Besides the short paragraph explaining this discretion (see below) is there more guidance on how to implement? Or case studies within this forum? I think I can write a reasonable case that it is "unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work" because it really is... If you are a flight attendant for ryanair/easyjet you're back in your own bed every day... Context..... . So do you quote the point of discretion from the guidance and then give the (contextual) explanation? (Delaying application is not a good option, I realize I am risking lots of £)



PS interesting to note there is a minor change in the latest guidance to what I quoted from an older post above.

"An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work. For example, if you are a merchant seaman or someone working for a UK based business which requires frequent travel abroad"

[contorted_svy]

1. I am confused on the basics, for what exactly is this specific point of discretion good for? It seems to cover only over 270/450 nothing to do with 90? IF you fit into this discretion (i.e. accepted by the caseworker), does it cover the double whammy of over 90 and over 270?

No. You need to be below one of the two limits. No escaping that.

2. Besides the short paragraph explaining this discretion (see below) is there more guidance on how to implement? Or case studies within this forum? I think I can write a reasonable case that it is "unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work" because it really is... If you are a flight attendant for ryanair/easyjet you're back in your own bed every day... Context..... . So do you quote the point of discretion from the guidance and then give the (contextual) explanation? (Delaying application is not a good option, I realize I am risking lots of £)



PS interesting to note there is a minor change in the latest guidance to what I quoted from an older post above.

"An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work. For example, if you are a merchant seaman or someone working for a UK based business which requires frequent travel abroad"

I wouldn't know how to argue that this is necessary travel for work, but as I stated above you need to fall below one of the two limits. If that is the case you may have then attach further evidence (depending where you fall on the extra absences). But if you aren't below at least one of the two limits your application would not have good chances. For more details on presenting why your travel is absolutely necessary (which I am really not sure a caseworker would agree with) you may want to consult a solicitor.

[JeremyG]

So let me understand. There is (potential as always) discretion if you are over either 90 or 270. If its up to (again, either) 100 or 300 they typically give discretion. Over (either) 100/300 you must have everything else in place.

So where does the "unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work" discretion actually help?

[contorted_svy]

As I said, I wouldn't know how to make the case for it. That being said, I think it would apply if you are over one of the two requirements (eg under 90 days in the last year but over 270 days in three years, or the other way around). I wouldn't recommend applying if you are up to 100 and 300 days respectively, I would make sure at least one number to be below the limit.

[JeremyG]

As I said, I wouldn't know how to make the case for it. That being said, I think it would apply if you are over one of the two requirements (eg under 90 days in the last year but over 270 days in three years, or the other way around). I wouldn't recommend applying if you are up to 100 and 300 days respectively, I would make sure at least one number to be below the limit.

Again for clarification, If I was a "merchant seaman", would that clause of discretion solve for 156 days in 12months/ 290 in 3years?

[contorted_svy]

As i said I don't have a clear answer. According to the guidance it seems so, but I wouldn't know how to go about building the case.

[AmazonianX]

As I said, I wouldn't know how to make the case for it. That being said, I think it would apply if you are over one of the two requirements (eg under 90 days in the last year but over 270 days in three years, or the other way around). I wouldn't recommend applying if you are up to 100 and 300 days respectively, I would make sure at least one number to be below the limit.

Again for clarification, If I was a "merchant seaman", would that clause of discretion solve for 156 days in 12months/ 290 in 3years?

Mods like at CR001 and others and more knowledgeable persons may be able to.throw more light on this when they come across it.

[JeremyG]

Mods like at CR001 and others and more knowledgeable persons may be able to.throw more light on this when they come across it.

Thanks @AmazonianX and @contorted_svy for your great support and if @CR001 or other mods come by here is my issue and question:

I am married to BC, applying 3 year route, I was out of UK 141 days in last 12 months, and 295 in last 3 years. I was present 3 years ago. All other issues, family, home, estate is strongly in the UK.

1. does the point of discretion "An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work. For example, if you are a merchant seaman or someone working for a UK based business which requires frequent travel abroad" help my case? (assume I meet the criteria of unavoidable cosnequence)

2. One step before that. guidance clearly states:

a. Normal permitted absences in qualifying period 270 days
b. Total number of absences normally disregarded. 300 days
c. Absences normally disregarded only if: you meet all other requirements and you have established your home, family and a substantial part of your estate here. 540 day.

I am under 300 days so I fall under "normally disregarded" no "only if" needed.

the guidance also clearly states for the last 12 months:

Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all other requirements are met and you have demonstrated links with the UK through presence of family, and established home and a substantial part of your estate. 101-179 days

I am fine on the "demonstrated links"...

But for my 295 days is it ultimately only if all other requirements are met or normally disregarded?

@contorted_svy has been clear it is a no go, but there is ambiguity in the guidance as I have shown and would humbly appreciate more input

[contorted_svy]

Mods like at CR001 and others and more knowledgeable persons may be able to.throw more light on this when they come across it.

Thanks @AmazonianX and @contorted_svy for your great support and if @CR001 or other mods come by here is my issue and question:

I am married to BC, applying 3 year route, I was out of UK 141 days in last 12 months, and 295 in last 3 years. I was present 3 years ago. All other issues, family, home, estate is strongly in the UK.

1. does the point of discretion "An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work. For example, if you are a merchant seaman or someone working for a UK based business which requires frequent travel abroad" help my case? (assume I meet the criteria of unavoidable cosnequence)

2. One step before that. guidance clearly states:

a. Normal permitted absences in qualifying period 270 days
b. Total number of absences normally disregarded. 300 days
c. Absences normally disregarded only if: you meet all other requirements and you have established your home, family and a substantial part of your estate here. 540 day.

I am under 300 days so I fall under "normally disregarded" no "only if" needed.

the guidance also clearly states for the last 12 months:

Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all other requirements are met and you have demonstrated links with the UK through presence of family, and established home and a substantial part of your estate. 101-179 days

I am fine on the "demonstrated links"...

But for my 295 days is it ultimately only if all other requirements are met or normally disregarded?

@contorted_svy has been clear it is a no go, but there is ambiguity in the guidance as I have shown and would humbly appreciate more input

If you ask for discretion on one requirement it means you didn't fullfil it (hence the request for discretion). I would argue, regardless whether it can be demonstrated that your job requires travel or not, that you are still not meeting both requirements - for one you are just over the limit so it is normally disregarded but I personally wouldn't risk it with the 12 months absence requirement being well over the limit that normally is disregarded.

[JeremyG]

If you ask for discretion on one requirement it means you didn't fullfil it (hence the request for discretion). I would argue, regardless whether it can be demonstrated that your job requires travel or not, that you are still not meeting both requirements - for one you are just over the limit so it is normally disregarded but I personally wouldn't risk it with the 12 months absence requirement being well over the limit that normally is disregarded.

I understand and accept (and about to take) the risk. I'm just taking up @amazonianX's suggestion to see if a mod has specific knowledge to share, I suspect my scenario of over 100, but under 300 (3y) is not rare. (The sea merchant approach is rare, but still no idea what it solves .. IF you meet the criteria)

[JeremyG]

Mods like at CR001 and others and more knowledgeable persons may be able to.throw more light on this when they come across it.

Thanks @AmazonianX and @contorted_svy for your great support and if @CR001 or other mods come by here is my issue and question:

I am married to BC, applying 3 year route, I was out of UK 141 days in last 12 months, and 295 in last 3 years. I was present 3 years ago. All other issues, family, home, estate is strongly in the UK.

1. does the point of discretion "An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work. For example, if you are a merchant seaman or someone working for a UK based business which requires frequent travel abroad" help my case? (assume I meet the criteria of unavoidable cosnequence)

2. One step before that. guidance clearly states:

a. Normal permitted absences in qualifying period 270 days
b. Total number of absences normally disregarded. 300 days
c. Absences normally disregarded only if: you meet all other requirements and you have established your home, family and a substantial part of your estate here. 540 day.

I am under 300 days so I fall under "normally disregarded" no "only if" needed.

the guidance also clearly states for the last 12 months:

Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all other requirements are met and you have demonstrated links with the UK through presence of family, and established home and a substantial part of your estate. 101-179 days

I am fine on the "demonstrated links"...

But for my 295 days is it ultimately only if all other requirements are met or normally disregarded?

@contorted_svy has been clear it is a no go, but there is ambiguity in the guidance as I have shown and would humbly appreciate more input

I am politely bumping this if mods can comment I would appreciate it!

[contorted_svy]

The guidance clearly says "only if all other requirements are met" which to me means they didn't get disregarded, but that you actually meet them as they have been set out. Not all mods comment on every post, especially if they agree with the advice that was given.

[JeremyG]

The guidance clearly says "only if all other requirements are met" which to me means they didn't get disregarded, but that you actually meet them as they have been set out. Not all mods comment on every post, especially if they agree with the advice that was given.

Contorted_svy, I have a lot of respect for your support. I have searched this forum (can't say extensively, but at least gave it a good effort) and all advice on this situation, seems to come from you. I also have not found any "case studies" (i.e. application failed even though was within the "normally disregarded" in one of the two absence criteria while above the other one)

You honestly say "which to me means. As such I am trying to get a mods "2nd opinion" as @AmazonianX suggested I do. I respectfully waited almost a week and politely bumped it. (I realize mods are not obligated to comment)

It boils down to "normally disregarded" vs "only if all other requirements are met" and I am sure there are case studies out there.

[JeremyG]

for the purpose of SAR (past travels) can you use Royal Mail's "In-branch ID verification" service, it is not on the list that follows the SAR online form:


The following people can certify the copy of this document:
A legal representative, registered with the Office for the Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC)
A solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive
A commissioner for oaths
A registered charity

[AmazonianX]

for the purpose of SAR (past travels) can you use Royal Mail's "In-branch ID verification" service, it is not on the list that follows the SAR online form:


The following people can certify the copy of this document:
A legal representative, registered with the Office for the Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC)
A solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive
A commissioner for oaths
A registered charity

Is ID verification still a requirement?
If yes, then the post office ID service can be used as accepted when used before.

[Dancull]

for the purpose of SAR (past travels) can you use Royal Mail's "In-branch ID verification" service, it is not on the list that follows the SAR online form:


The following people can certify the copy of this document:
A legal representative, registered with the Office for the Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC)
A solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive
A commissioner for oaths
A registered charity

I received my detailed SAR earlier this month, 'ID verification' is not required as I only supplied a signed and dated consent letter, passport and my driving license.

[JeremyG]

for the purpose of SAR (past travels) can you use Royal Mail's "In-branch ID verification" service, it is not on the list that follows the SAR online form:


The following people can certify the copy of this document:
A legal representative, registered with the Office for the Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC)
A solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive
A commissioner for oaths
A registered charity

I received my detailed SAR earlier this month, 'ID verification' is not required as I only supplied a signed and dated consent letter, passport and my driving license.

Weird, I guess based on all the data you give them the system decides what level of ID verification is required

[Dancull]

for the purpose of SAR (past travels) can you use Royal Mail's "In-branch ID verification" service, it is not on the list that follows the SAR online form:


The following people can certify the copy of this document:
A legal representative, registered with the Office for the Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC)
A solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive
A commissioner for oaths
A registered charity

I received my detailed SAR earlier this month, 'ID verification' is not required as I only supplied a signed and dated consent letter, passport and my driving license.

Weird, I guess based on all the data you give them the system decides what level of ID verification is required

I'm not entirely sure sorry, but you can go ahead and submit it if they need more documents they will contact you.

[JeremyG]

I requested 5 years of basic travel information. I received a lot of data from the commercial carriers I flew on. That data is helpful but far from complete, many trips missing, trips that I checked in for, but ultimately didn't fly etc. it helps with leaving the UK info as there are no exit border controls in the UK

It doesn't have the actual entry to the UK (i.e., scan of the border officer or automated machine). I asked them and they said they only have the commercial carrier information. The UK does not record the entrances of people to the UK? makes no sense to me....

[contorted_svy]

SAR results are notoriously incomplete.