Deportation act sect 3 sub 2a, 1999 Que-Minister for Justice

[seasayoub]

Please an immigrant was given 3 month suspended sentence in court 4 years ago, and an immigration officer called Steven Ryan wrote the immigrant that, he has been sentence to a term of imprisonment and in view of that, he should make a submission to the minister why he should not be deported, as a law expert, we wrote him to tell him that, that section has been misinterpreted by the immigration officer because the immigrant in questions did not spend that imprisonment imposed by the court, so why would Mr Steven Ryan of the INIS make such statement in writing because since then he never replied to the letter than continue renewal of the immigrant residency, would the minister put them right or the attorney general if they lack proper interpretations of the law as immigration officer or how did they get employed by the INIS in actual fact to make such error ?

[Irisheddy]

You appear to be surprised that someone who is not competent is employed by INIS. I'm afraid there are numerous examples already mentioned on this board of how incompetent some of their staff are.

[seasayoub]

You appear to be surprised that someone who is not competent is employed by INIS. I'm afraid there are numerous examples already mentioned on this board of how incompetent some of their staff are.

Is the fianna fail government that employs them, had it been we have not studied law, he would gotten away with such letter, and they don't like given up without a fight as we all know, politics without adequate education always lead to total failure.

[walrusgumble]

You appear to be surprised that someone who is not competent is employed by INIS. I'm afraid there are numerous examples already mentioned on this board of how incompetent some of their staff are.

Is the fianna fail government that employs them, had it been we have not studied law, he would gotten away with such letter, and they don't like given up without a fight as we all know, politics without adequate education always lead to total failure.

You clearly don't know much either.

The government does not employ these staff members. They apply for posts offered by the Civil Service - different group entirely.

Governments come and go, Civil Servants are there for a very long time.

I am sure that your native country is a beacon of shinning light and great example setting


Secondly

This Steven Ryan, while he may have been incorrect to state that the person was spending time in Jail, the correct procedures would have been followed, if he was correct - ie for the person to make submissions stating why one should not be deported and an opportunity to correct the department on the information he had. It is possible that the information before him was that the guy actually was sent to jail rather than suspension; as opposed to interpretation of the Section!


Also, technically, a term of imprisonment was issued, but suspended on the basis that the person did not get into trouble again. The sentence was still hanging over him for whatever period the term was suspended for! Rightly, it was not work the hassle

Good call though

[rosdoodoo]

You appear to be surprised that someone who is not competent is employed by INIS. I'm afraid there are numerous examples already mentioned on this board of how incompetent some of their staff are.

Is the fianna fail government that employs them, had it been we have not studied law, he would gotten away with such letter, and they don't like given up without a fight as we all know, politics without adequate education always lead to total failure.

You clearly don't know much either.

The government does not employ these staff members. They apply for posts offered by the Civil Service - different group entirely.

Governments come and go, Civil Servants are there for a very long time.

I am sure that your native country is a beacon of shinning light and great example setting


Secondly

This Steven Ryan, while he may have been incorrect to state that the person was spending time in Jail, the correct procedures would have been followed, if he was correct - ie for the person to make submissions stating why one should not be deported and an opportunity to correct the department on the information he had. It is possible that the information before him was that the guy actually was sent to jail rather than suspension; as opposed to interpretation of the Section!


Also, technically, a term of imprisonment was issued, but suspended on the basis that the person did not get into trouble again. The sentence was still hanging over him for whatever period the term was suspended for! Rightly, it was not work the hassle

Good call though

Isn't that hypocritical of him to have sent out a refusal and intention to Recommend a deportation to the then minister fro justice when he has Already make such mistake knownly that the immigrant was never Imprisons and all the pages of his passport is full of residency stamp, you Name it, 1 month, 3 months, 6 month during that trial period and the you know how much it cost that person to purchase GNIB cards during those years, then you are Saying that, ireland is the only country that offer's Immigrant such Opportunity in the 21st century and then abuse people, Oppress people With no justification. I mean come on.

[walrusgumble]

Isn't that hypocritical of him to have sent out a refusal and intention to Recommend a deportation to the then minister fro justice when he has Already make such mistake knownly that the immigrant was never Imprisons and all the pages of his passport is full of residency stamp, you Name it, 1 month, 3 months, 6 month during that trial period and the you know how much it cost that person to purchase GNIB cards during those years, then you are Saying that, ireland is the only country that offer's Immigrant such Opportunity in the 21st century and then abuse people, Oppress people With no justification. I mean come on.

Hard to read.

How is it hypocritical?

When the department find out about offences and sentences, then they inform you of their intentions. He was not advised that the sentence was suspended.

Can you prove that they knowingly acted in a certain way?

You can't do anything "during trial period", you were not convicted then.


Sorry hang on, I assume that this conviction , the trial period lasted no more than 1 year. If so, why take longer?

GNIB cards are normally given for one year. so how many renewals had you ?You would have to pay that anyway? Just because you have a conviction and even saw jail, it does not mean you will be deported, depends on your case and other factors. Whinging that you were renewed?

(When I say "You" , I don't mean you personally)


Your then making out that the immigrant is a victim. Excuse me, the person broke conditions on the basis of being allowed to be here! He was convicted of a crime and very lucky not to be in jail . Wise Up!

How was he abused? He was threatened with deportation, you had a chance to deal with that threat. You did, move on.

[rosdoodoo]

Isn't that hypocritical of him to have sent out a refusal and intention to Recommend a deportation to the then minister fro justice when he has Already make such mistake knownly that the immigrant was never Imprisons and all the pages of his passport is full of residency stamp, you Name it, 1 month, 3 months, 6 month during that trial period and the you know how much it cost that person to purchase GNIB cards during those years, then you are Saying that, ireland is the only country that offer's Immigrant such Opportunity in the 21st century and then abuse people, Oppress people With no justification. I mean come on.

Hard to read.

How is it hypocritical?

When the department find out about offences and sentences, then they inform you of their intentions. He was not advised that the sentence was suspended.

Can you prove that they knowingly acted in a certain way?

You can't do anything "during trial period", you were not convicted then.


Sorry hang on, I assume that this conviction , the trial period lasted no more than 1 year. If so, why take longer?

GNIB cards are normally given for one year. so how many renewals had you ?You would have to pay that anyway? Just because you have a conviction and even saw jail, it does not mean you will be deported, depends on your case and other factors. Whinging that you were renewed?

(When I say "You" , I don't mean you personally)


Your then making out that the immigrant is a victim. Excuse me, the person broke conditions on the basis of being allowed to be here! He was convicted of a crime and very lucky not to be in jail . Wise Up!

How was he abused? He was threatened with deportation, you had a chance to deal with that threat. You did, move on.

Please don't give me that crap at all, come and see my passport and know how much i spend on GNIB 3 Monthly denominations from 2007 to 2009 before they introduce 6 monthly again, but why would an immigration officer seat down with their mule in the office and did not get up and sort for paper evidences of orders in court and continue looking evidence in the computer which garda could framed up and write anything they like about people, i have to send in the court order myself and warned him of the implications before he changed a little bit and start using some fraudulent wording on my resident permit letter, until i showed him at last that, i am smarter and knowledgeably in Law, than you all does in that office.

If you don't like or want changes that's your business really i am less concerned really.

Who knows the law better, police or the judge or Lawyers ?

[walrusgumble]

quote="rosdoodoo"

Please don't give me that crap at all, come and see my passport and know how much i spend on GNIB [/QUOTE]

Don't you get all pissy with me boy. You made uneducated comments and you are being corrected.

No one put a gun to your head in order to renew the residency, you were and free to leave at any time. You knew what your position was when you came regarding renewing. You (or anyone) commit a crime and are conviction know or should know the risks that that can occur.

quote="rosdoodoo"
3 Monthly denominations from 2007 to 2009 before they introduce 6 monthly again[/QUOTE]

Why was that? Did you have a letter from Department stating that you had rights to be here for x period? Where you in trouble ?

Don't get self righteous, thank your blessing that you were not kicked out of Ireland. Suspended sentence or not, you still got sentenced

quote="rosdoodoo"

, but why would an immigration officer seat down with their mule in the office and did not get up and sort for paper evidences of orders in court and continue looking evidence in the computer which garda could framed up and write anything they like about people, i have to send in the court order myself and warned him of the implications before he changed a little bit and start using some fraudulent wording on my resident permit letter, until i showed him at last that, i am smarter and knowledgeably in Law, than you all does in that office. [/QUOTE]

The waffle that you are ranting shows you are a spoofer.

It is not for the Department to provide the evidence but for you to do so and explain why you should not be deported (you did that).

If you don't like or want changes that's your business really i am less concerned really.

quote="rosdoodoo"
Who knows the law better, police or the judge or Lawyers ? [/quote]

Judge and lawyers. Not always the judge mind (at district court level)

[rosdoodoo]

quote="rosdoodoo"

Please don't give me that crap at all, come and see my passport and know how much i spend on GNIB

Don't you get all pissy with me boy. You made uneducated comments and you are being corrected.

No one put a gun to your head in order to renew the residency, you were and free to leave at any time. You knew what your position was when you came regarding renewing. You (or anyone) commit a crime and are conviction know or should know the risks that that can occur.

quote="rosdoodoo"
3 Monthly denominations from 2007 to 2009 before they introduce 6 monthly again[/QUOTE]

Why was that? Did you have a letter from Department stating that you had rights to be here for x period? Where you in trouble ?

Don't get self righteous, thank your blessing that you were not kicked out of Ireland. Suspended sentence or not, you still got sentenced

quote="rosdoodoo"

, but why would an immigration officer seat down with their mule in the office and did not get up and sort for paper evidences of orders in court and continue looking evidence in the computer which garda could framed up and write anything they like about people, i have to send in the court order myself and warned him of the implications before he changed a little bit and start using some fraudulent wording on my resident permit letter, until i showed him at last that, i am smarter and knowledgeably in Law, than you all does in that office. [/QUOTE]

The waffle that you are ranting shows you are a spoofer.

It is not for the Department to provide the evidence but for you to do so and explain why you should not be deported (you did that).

If you don't like or want changes that's your business really i am less concerned really.

quote="rosdoodoo"
Who knows the law better, police or the judge or Lawyers ? [/quote]

Judge and lawyers. Not always the judge mind (at district court level)[/quote]

And not the old judges though, they normally forget some text and defences of some case and mess up, and i have seen lawyers reminding the judge in a court with textbook to remind them, otherwise they'll mess things up before you know it. hope that helps you a bit though.

[walrusgumble]

quote="rosdoodoo"

Please don't give me that crap at all, come and see my passport and know how much i spend on GNIB

Don't you get all pissy with me boy. You made uneducated comments and you are being corrected.

No one put a gun to your head in order to renew the residency, you were and free to leave at any time. You knew what your position was when you came regarding renewing. You (or anyone) commit a crime and are conviction know or should know the risks that that can occur.

quote="rosdoodoo"
3 Monthly denominations from 2007 to 2009 before they introduce 6 monthly again

Why was that? Did you have a letter from Department stating that you had rights to be here for x period? Where you in trouble ?

Don't get self righteous, thank your blessing that you were not kicked out of Ireland. Suspended sentence or not, you still got sentenced

quote="rosdoodoo"

, but why would an immigration officer seat down with their mule in the office and did not get up and sort for paper evidences of orders in court and continue looking evidence in the computer which garda could framed up and write anything they like about people, i have to send in the court order myself and warned him of the implications before he changed a little bit and start using some fraudulent wording on my resident permit letter, until i showed him at last that, i am smarter and knowledgeably in Law, than you all does in that office. [/QUOTE]

The waffle that you are ranting shows you are a spoofer.

It is not for the Department to provide the evidence but for you to do so and explain why you should not be deported (you did that).

If you don't like or want changes that's your business really i am less concerned really.

quote="rosdoodoo"
Who knows the law better, police or the judge or Lawyers ? [/quote]

Judge and lawyers. Not always the judge mind (at district court level)[/quote]

And not the old judges though, they normally forget some text and defences of some case and mess up, and i have seen lawyers reminding the judge in a court with textbook to remind them, otherwise they'll mess things up before you know it. hope that helps you a bit though. [/quote]

They know more than you ever know.

District Court Judges don't really have to deal with legal arguments in court. Secondly its for the lawyers to tell what the law is. (That is how adversial system works!) , Thirdly Judges have about 100 cases a day to address, you can forgive them for not knowing what is going on (factually) in your case


You sound like a person who has to attend court regularly. Sounds like your not someone who should be getting into trouble

[Malfidisdoodoo]

I could understand where you're coming from, but judge does not rush cases through and make silly mistake just because they have 100 cases in-front of them in a district court for the country to use against immigrants, that's why the justice minister is conferred with the power to use discretionary powers in granting applicants their right despite the fact that, the referendum to investigate court judgement and judge was voted edantun nay in the last referendum.

Having said all that, a simmilar case was struck down with similar defense recently in the same court, while the court of criminal appeal fail to process the case by sending it back saying the appeal case in questions has never get to the circuit court despite despite all the documentation furnished them.

Well anyway, the immigration department could not find any deportation act to use on suspended sentences anyway, so

Back to the main answer again i don't spend my life dealing with cases or going to court because of some stupid dearly beloved Irish that continuously complaining against immigrant writing letters , going to police saying immigrant are shouting at them with no apparent reason than immigration, absurd.

Next mate ?

[walrusgumble]

I could understand where you're coming from, but judge does not rush cases through and make silly mistake just because they have 100 cases in-front of them in a district court for the country to use against immigrants, that's why the justice minister is conferred with the power to use discretionary powers in granting applicants

Courts can't interfere with Minister's powers, really.

District Court Judge's don't have much experience in Immigration Law

However, the only really immigration related issues that concern District Court Judges is when you have a false document, or no status. So? Can't get much wrong there.

You can appeal your case. And stop getting into trouble!

The negligence, if any,emitting from District Court Judges is experienced by far more Irish people themselves. It is not an anti immigrant issue

their right despite the fact that, the referendum to investigate court judgement and judge was voted edantun nay in the last referendum.

I sense your a troller.

Case in point. You actually don't understand what the referendums where about. You clearly are not aware of the results, and you clearly do not understand that they would never have anything to do with normal criminal law cases

Stop talking crap.

Having said all that, a simmilar case was struck down with similar defense recently in the same court, while the court of criminal appeal fail to process the case by sending it back saying the appeal case in questions has never get to the circuit court despite despite all the documentation furnished them.

Details? What has it to do with immigration. Jesus retards like you, immigrants will never achieve much. Shut up, you make your people look bad. Talk sense for once.

Well anyway, the immigration department could not find any deportation act to use on suspended sentences anyway, so

They can refuse to renew (as oppose to revoke) your status on the basis of convictions, so watch your back

Back to the main answer again i don't spend my life dealing with cases or going to court

Your posts indicated that you were becoming to be a bit of an expert in the legal procedures. It was a legitimate question.

because of some stupid

Stupid, look in the mirror and your posts here.

dearly beloved

Your understanding of what that word mean is laughable. Constant use of the term when things don't go your way, is like the boy who cried wolf .It becomes meaninglessness.

Irish that continuously complaining against immigrant writing letters , going to police saying immigrant are shouting at them with no apparent reason than immigration, absurd.

When did this happen? YOu know, if this allegation is true, and your being accused of something which is untrue, you can make a complaint. Your reputation is being affected. One was clearly found guilty of something if a conviction was issued.

Either way, that offence is hardly grounds for Deportation (actual d/o, not threat of one)

Next mate ?

We are not mates

Note to yourself, you do realise that your comments are all over the shop. What was it that you did?