Can my wife legally stay in Spain after visa expires?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

There hve been alot of changes here since April but the basics remain the same just a few small changes.

Actually, there have been some significant changes since April (dealt with earlier in this thread). EU national now need to be a worker, self-sufficient or student.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

But sounds like you already had residency in Spain before your wife applied for hers? i guess this made a big difference in the decision to accept her application.

One of the basic requirement for your wife's application is that you present your residence certificate (you've applied for this as I understand).

Your residence certificate should be issued immediately on application, but in order for it to be successful, you need to be a worker, self-employed, a student or a self-sufficient person and comply with the conditions thereof.

Prior to April, Spain treated EU nationals very generously and simply required them to live in Spain.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...under the terms of the EU Directive, she can work, but proving it is another matter...

Interestingly, Spain appears to have transposed the right to work reasonably well and pretty much in line with the directive. It talks about issuing a certificate of application immediately, but goes onto say that holding a COA is not a precondition to exercising other rights and that family members can prove entitlement by other means (article 8.2 or the decreto).

Also, in article 3 it explicitly states that most family members have the right to carry out whatever activity on the same terms as Spanish nationals including the right to work, receive services and study within the limits of the treaty. (It appears to except dependent children and parents from this right though).

[addy777]

Many thanks to all who have helped us with advice on our situation. For now my wife as returned to Morocco till i have word from Almeria on my residency. Seems like i need to work on a few thing first, i have my padron, place to live and the medical insurance is no problem. Just need to work on the needed proof of working in Spain i guess.
For me it isn't a problem to not be resident here in Spain on paper, but my wife doesn't want to take the risk of been in Spain without a visa and be able to freely travel back and forth to see her family in Casablanca.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...but my wife doesn't want to take the risk of been in Spain without a visa and be able to freely travel back and forth to see her family in Casablanca...

I understand completely, once you get your residence certificate, her application would be pretty much automatic once you submit the requisite proof (marriage certificate).

Where did you get married? The answer to this question will determine what you need to do to get your marriage recognised in Spain.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...Just need to work on the needed proof of working in Spain i guess...

Are you working? If so, it should be dead simple to get the residence certificate.

[addy777]

We got married in Gibraltar last year, had the marriage certificate apostille stamped at the same time. For her ex19 form we have also had the marriage certificate translated to spanish ready to put in her application.

The working part is the problem. Since been over here in Spain i've been renovating an old farmhouse, this only lately is close to been finished. Then since last year i've been working on the 13 hectares of land that came with the house, so far not had an income from this. So i guess doesn't really count as a job so to speak.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

We got married in Gibraltar last year, had the marriage certificate apostille stamped at the same time. For her ex19 form we have also had the marriage certificate translated to spanish ready to put in her application.

Good, looks like you are on top of that part then!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The working part is the problem. Since been over here in Spain i've been renovating an old farmhouse, this only lately is close to been finished. Then since last year i've been working on the 13 hectares of land that came with the house, so far not had an income from this. So i guess doesn't really count as a job so to speak.

I would not be so sure that this is not working as a self-employed person. Many businesses require time to generate income. What are you surviving on now? You must have funds.

Your investment sounds very serious to me; not something one would simply make up just to qualify.

[John]

addy777, if you are indeed self-employed, have you complied with any Spanish tax requirements?

I do not claim to know anything about Spanish tax law, but for example, if someone becomes self-employed in the UK they have only three months to notify HMRC about their business, in order to avoid a penalty.

Anything similar in Spain? If you do not know, you need to find out.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

My wife has a visa valid till the 20th July, so was a six month Shengen.

Great, so she can leave and re-enter before it expires and apply for RC when she returns. Enjoy trip to Casablanca.

She is the spouse of an EU citizen, do not get hung up on the 90 days business for tourists.

There is zero requirement that the family member of an EU citizen leaves the country before their visa has expired. MRAX is very clear about that. The visa is only about intitial entry to the country. The family member has a right to then remain based solely on the relationship to the EU citizen (and their continued residence in the host member state).

In fact, if you read through threads in the forum, there has been no end of problems caused by non-EU family members who have left their country of residence thinking it would make it "easier".

If you expect no problems reentering Spain, then by all means go on your vacation. But do not do it because you think it will make formalities in Spain easier.


MRAX is the case referred to in http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

There is zero requirement that the family member of an EU citizen leaves the country before their visa has expired.

It is possible for a member state to fine someone for not complying with the required administrative formalities such as applying for a residence card in time. The suggestion I made at the time, is that one could re-set the clock if one left and re-entered the member state.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is zero requirement that the family member of an EU citizen leaves the country before their visa has expired.

It is possible for a member state to fine someone for not complying with the required administrative formalities such as applying for a residence card in time. The suggestion I made at the time, is that one could re-set the clock if one left and re-entered the member state.

How big is the fine?

Have you ever heard of this being done in any member state? (I have never heard of it)

Is the fine more than the cost of two tickets to the nearest boarder?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

There is zero requirement that the family member of an EU citizen leaves the country before their visa has expired.

It is possible for a member state to fine someone for not complying with the required administrative formalities such as applying for a residence card in time. The suggestion I made at the time, is that one could re-set the clock if one left and re-entered the member state.

How big is the fine?

Have you ever heard of this being done in any member state? (I have never heard of it)

Is the fine more than the cost of two tickets to the nearest boarder?

While I've never personally heard of one being fined, it is theoretical possible.