Refusal to EEA Family permit --> arrive to the uk boarder

[Bigo]

where can i find excatly a proof that if she i not living in the uk for the past 6 month she is not have to be a qualified person?

or like you mantion point 2.4 is the proof?

The reason they didnt called them for interview is becasue they dont deal the case in israel they send it to turkey, thats what the lady in the british embassy in tel aviv told them when they ask about interview. i think in not their fault that they are not dealing with the family permit in israel if they cant interview him so they should believe his geunie relation and issue his visa.

i will ask them about the photos.

[Jambo]

Did they actually mention in the form she used to live in the UK? I suspect not and the reason they rejected the application was because the ECO tested their future intentions which he should not.

I suggest they follow the advice from Szmek here as he successfully turn around a refusal.

The fact that they making decision in a central location shouldn't prevent them from calling them for an interview. The local staff in Israel could do that.

[Bigo]

No they didnt mantion that she lived in the uk.

I read about Szmek story and it's really make me to feel that they have good chance to do that as well!

can you try to help them to build the letter for the british embassy in Itanbul?

They need to complain in the letter about 2 things then:

1) The reason she lived in the uk long time ago don't need to make the ECO look if she a qualified person or not.

2)If the think it's marriage of convinece which is really not they should call the aplicant to an interview and they didnt.


I saw szmek letter and i will try to help them to write somthing similar as him.

[Bigo]

Should i use that in their letter:

EUN2.4 What are the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit?
In assessing an application from an EEA national's direct family member, the entry clearance officer(ECO) should be satisfied that:
1. the applicant is the family member of the EEA national (marriage certificate, birth certificate or other evidence of family link)
2. the EEA national is residing in the UK in accordance with the EEA Regulations (as qualified person (exercising treaty rights) if more than 3 months) and the non-EEA national is joining them; or the EEA national intends to travel to the UK within 6 months and will have a right to reside under the Regulations on arrival, and the non-EEA national will be accompanying or joining the EEA national; and
3. if applying as a spouse or civil partner, there are no grounds to consider that the marriage or civil partnership is one of convenience (see Annex ….); and
4. if applying as dependent family members (dependent children 21 and over and dependent relatives) they are dependent on the EEA national or the EEA national's spouse or civil partner; and
5. neither the applicant nor the EEA national should be excluded from the UK on the grounds of public policy, public security or public health.



I still a bit don't understand if she lived in the uk in 2008 but in the past 2 years she is living in israel they are not have to prove that she is qualified person? that's true? and then i can use the section above.

[Jambo]

The relevant section from 2.4 is

It is important not to test overall intentions in assessing applications for an EEA family permit. Also, there is an initial right of residence for 3 months, which means that an EEA national does not have to be exercising a treaty right immediately on arrival in the UK.

Which basically means the ECO can't ask the EEA national to be a qualified person if they just move to the UK. You can ignore the fact she lived in the UK before unless they have already provided evidence in the last application which suggests she did.

[Bigo]

They didn't show any evidance that she is lived in the uk before and even the ECO stated that in his rejection. the ECO concluded she lived there because they met in London but all their relationship they been living in Israel! she been in the uk for few months on 2008-2009 when they met first time as he came as a tourist to london,
So that's why the ECO did worng with his desiction and they will fight for it until they will win this case! and she is not have to be a qualified person like you say! i'm writing for them on the letter for the visa department and for the application i will show it to you when it will be ready if you have any more advises.

[Bigo]

So is it better now not to try to provide any evdance they she been in the uk?
Is it better to say that she not have to be a qualified person?

[Bigo]

I sent the letter today for the british embassy. lets wait for their response.

[Ben]

As I said in my previous posts - EEA Family Permit was not required if he is a non visa national.

This is bad advice. Airlines or airport staff working on behalf of airlines invariably places hurdles and refuse travel for non-EEA nationals attempting to fly on a one-way ticket without any form of pre-entry clearance.

EC law may provide for lawful entry without a visa, but in practice it's not something airlines are too aware of or comfortable to facilitate due to their fear of fines. For stress-free and surety of travel, it's always best to hold the visa.

[Jambo]

This is bad advice. Airlines or airport staff working on behalf of airlines invariably places hurdles and refuse travel for non-EEA nationals attempting to fly on a one-way ticket without any form of pre-entry clearance.

EC law may provide for lawful entry without a visa, but in practice it's not something airlines are too aware of or comfortable to facilitate due to their fear of fines. For stress-free and surety of travel, it's always best to hold the visa.

I disagree.

Many of my (non-EEA, non visa) friends flew to the UK on one way tickets (mainly on cheap low cost airlines as scheduled airlines don't really offer one way tickets) and had no problem at all. Also, you can always book a return ticket and not use the return leg if you are afraid the airline would not let you board.

The OP tried to do what the UK (unnecessary) asks you to do and now he has a mess to clean as the EEA Family Permit was refused. He would have been much better off by seeking entry as a family member at the border.

[Ben]

This is bad advice. Airlines or airport staff working on behalf of airlines invariably places hurdles and refuse travel for non-EEA nationals attempting to fly on a one-way ticket without any form of pre-entry clearance.

EC law may provide for lawful entry without a visa, but in practice it's not something airlines are too aware of or comfortable to facilitate due to their fear of fines. For stress-free and surety of travel, it's always best to hold the visa.

I disagree.

Many of my (non-EEA, non visa) friends flew to the UK on one way tickets (mainly on cheap low cost airlines as scheduled airlines don't really offer one way tickets) and had no problem at all. Also, you can always book a return ticket and not use the return leg if you are afraid the airline would not let you board.

The OP tried to do what the UK (unnecessary) asks you to do and now he has a mess to clean as the EEA Family Permit was refused. He would have been much better off by seeking entry as a family member at the border.

You may disagree if you wish, but this forum alone is riddled with examples of non-EU, non-visa nationals who have attempted to travel to member states on one-way tickets without a form of pre-entry clearance and who have been refused boarding.

The airlines are, quite incorrectly, not sufficiently informed of exemptions afforded under EC law. Some people affected have later sued the airlines for restricting their entitled movement.

If the OP had bought and paid for a one-way ticket from his departing country to the UK, there is a good chance that airport staff working on behalf of the airlines would not permit travel. If the one-way ticket were not refundable, his money would have been wasted.

I'm not sure why you state that scheduled airlines don't offer one-way tickets by the way.

In my opinion, if someone doesn't want to go through the hoops of applying for an EEA FP then the smartest and most cost-effective thing to do is to book a standard one-way ticket for the "outbound" leg, plus a fully-refundable "return" leg, back to the departing country. The itinerary can be shown to the check-in staff in the departing country and, in my experience, is sufficient to satisfy them and so facilitate travel. The dummy leg can then be refunded in full once in the UK.

[Obie]

It is interesting that airlines can stop you from boarding if you don't have a return ticket. I had always though that such duties are for an immigration officer.

Airlines are only required to ensure you have the correct travel documents, and where necessary a visa for your journey and nothing esle.

Then again things changes everyday, and i have not travelled for a while.

[Jambo]

You may disagree if you wish, but this forum alone is riddled with examples of non-EU, non-visa nationals who have attempted to travel to member states on one-way tickets without a form of pre-entry clearance and who have been refused boarding.

This could certainly be although I don't remember many such cases. I do remember cases of EEA Family Permit getting refused for all sort of weird (unlawful) reasons.

The airlines are, quite incorrectly, not sufficiently informed of exemptions afforded under EC law. Some people affected have later sued the airlines for restricting their entitled movement.

True. From my experience from the forum, this mainly refers to visa nationals travelling together with the EEA national with or without an Article 10 RC rather than non visa nationals on one way tickets (travelling either as visitors or EEA family members).

If the OP had bought and paid for a one-way ticket from his departing country to the UK, there is a good chance that airport staff working on behalf of the airlines would not permit travel. If the one-way ticket were not refundable, his money would have been wasted.

I'm not sure why you state that scheduled airlines don't offer one-way tickets by the way.

Well scheduled flights do offer one-way ticket but the last time I checked it didn’t make sense buying one as it was more expensive than a return ticket (because one-way is considered full fare ticket). Whereas low cost airlines price each leg separately.

In my opinion, if someone doesn't want to go through the hoops of applying for an EEA FP then the smartest and most cost-effective thing to do is to book a standard one-way ticket for the "outbound" leg, plus a fully-refundable "return" leg, back to the departing country. The itinerary can be shown to the check-in staff in the departing country and, in my experience, is sufficient to satisfy them and so facilitate travel. The dummy leg can then be refunded in full once in the UK.

I totally agree with this advice. My original advice was about whether EEA FP is needed or not. Not about the airline ticket options.

So if someone following this and doesn’t apply for EEA FP, would you still consider that a bad advice?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

All must take responsibility for their own situation. Check it out for yourself.

http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/

Visa "waivers" work in different ways depending on the destination:

A straw poll:

All checked for a US citizen with valid passport, but no visa.

United Kingdom

Passport required.
- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
for the period of intended stay.
- For visitors who are visa exempt up to a max. stay of 6
months, the period of stay will be determined by the
Immigration Officer on arrival.

France (Shengen)

- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
on arrival.
- Visitors are required to hold proof of sufficient funds to
cover their stay and documents required for their next
destination.

Switzerland

as above, but

Warning:
- For passengers arriving/departing Geneva (GVA) and

Basel/Mulhouse/Freiburg (BSL) , see Switzerland.
- Visitors not holding return/onward tickets could be refused


Singapore

- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
for at least 6 months on arrival.
Warning:
- Visitors not holding return/onward tickets could be refused

Thailand
Passport required.
- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
for at least 6 months upon arrival.
- Nationals of USA can enter with passports and/or passport

replacing documents valid for the period of intended stay.
Warning:
- Visitors who are visa exempt but do not hold return/onward
tickets could be refused entry.

[Ben]

It is interesting that airlines can stop you from boarding if you don't have a return ticket. I had always though that such duties are for an immigration officer.

Airlines are only required to ensure you have the correct travel documents, and where necessary a visa for your journey and nothing esle.

Then again things changes everyday, and i have not travelled for a while.

Airlines are responsible for ensuring that passengers have the correct documents for entry to the country they are transporting them to. Should an airline bring in a passenger who doesn't have the required documents, the airline can be fined quite heavily.

Airlines primarily use IATA publications as a guide to determine this. In short, "visa-free" nationals qualify for entry as short term visitors without the need to hold an entry visa, but conditional to this is holding an onward ticket (there are other factors, such as sufficient funds to support their trip). On this thread, we all know that these nationals also qualify for visa-free entry if they can proof, at the UK border, that they have a right of entry under the EEA regs. But IATA / Timatic doesn't say this - so airlines don't know it or want to believe it if told. Consequently, the airline is unlikely to want to permit travel for fear of being fined.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

But IATA / Timatic doesn't say this - so airlines don't know it or want to believe it if told. Consequently, the airline is unlikely to want to permit travel for fear of being fined.

Ben, please read the post above (I cut and paste what Timatic says for a hypothetical US citizen for various countries). Basically, it depends on the destination as to whether a return ticket (or other onward travel arrangements) is required for visa free entry or not - some do, some don't.

[Ben]

But IATA / Timatic doesn't say this - so airlines don't know it or want to believe it if told. Consequently, the airline is unlikely to want to permit travel for fear of being fined.

Ben, please read the post above (I cut and paste what Timatic says for a hypothetical US citizen for various countries). Basically, it depends on the destination as to whether a return ticket (or other onward travel arrangements) is required for visa free entry or not - some do, some don't.

I know, I read it. What's your point?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I know, I read it. What's your point?

That your previous post appeared to be a little inaccurate.

[Ben]

I know, I read it. What's your point?

That your previous post appeared to be a little inaccurate.

My apologies. Could you point out the inaccuracies?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

My apologies. Could you point out the inaccuracies?

Ben, you appear to have stated that all countries require non-visa nationals to hold a return ticket in order to avail of visa-waiver. I'm not convinced that it is as simple as that. While I know this is true for some countries, I'm not convinced that it is true for all. In any event, evidence of onward travel may be sufficient if a return ticket is not available.

The straw poll of timatic for the hypothetical US citizen does not appear to suggest that it is a requirement for all of the countries reviewed.

I could be wrong of course and am happy to be corrected.

Anyone attempting to fly to another country should be aware of the entry requirements pertaining to their situation and comply with them or risk being denied boarding.

[Ben]

Ben, you appear to have stated that all countries require non-visa nationals to hold a return ticket in order to avail of visa-waiver.

No, I didn't say that nor is it correct.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...but conditional to this is holding an onward ticket...

Ok, I'd misread this.

Basically we are in agreement, then. It depends on the country of entry.

[Ben]

...but conditional to this is holding an onward ticket...

Ok, I'd misread this.

Basically we are in agreement, then. It depends on the country of entry.

Indeed. In the part you just quoted, I was referring to the UK more so than to every country of the world.

IOs need to be satisfied that the passenger is a genuine visitor in order to qualify for visa-free entry. Onward ticket, sufficient funds, plausible itinerary, reason to return to home country are all deciding factors.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

In the case of the UK, it's well worth reading this if you are a non-visa national visitor.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary