Naturalisation Question

QueryBear · Post by **QueryBear** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:47 pm

I am a South African national and have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 6 years and 6 months as the civil partner of a German national. The residence document I currently have in my passport is a Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National, which expires in October 2012.

However, if I understand it correctly, according to information on the UK Border Agency's website I became automatically entitled to permanent residence in the UK after 5 years and do not need to obtain indefinite leave to remain in the UK before applying for naturalisation as a British citizen. Conversely, it is also mentioned on their website that the person applying should not be subject to any time limit under the immigration laws in the last 12 months. So my question is this:

Does the fact that I have automatically been a permanent resident in the UK for the past 1 year and 6 months mean that I am not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws in the last 12 months, despite the fact that the current residence document I hold shows an expiry date of October 2012?

The reason for asking is that I wish to apply for naturalisation as a British citizen, but I do not want to risk my application being rejected on the grounds of the 12 months time limit restriction.

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:04 pm

Your status would depend on the activities of your EEA partner. Has your partner exercised treaty rights for continuous 5 years?

The date on the RC is irrelevant.

See more - PR& BC.

QueryBear · Post by **QueryBear** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:01 pm

Thanks for your reply, Jambo. Yes, my partner has exercised treaty rights for at least 5 years continuously (he has lived and worked in the UK for the past 9 years).

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:09 pm

Can I ask you guys here please?

In case non-EEA family member of an EU national applies for naturalisation without getting PR first, the form requires sections 2.4-2.6 to be filled in, which is basically to show employment (or other excercising Treaty Rights status) for the last 5 years. It also asks first to tick if you are an EU national or a family member and proceeds to ask "please list below your activities for the last 5 years". Whose activities are to be listed here? The EU national excercising Treaty Rights or the non-EU family member aplying??

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:19 pm

It's the EEA national activities that count. What you did is not relevant.

The form actually say "Please state on what basis you were" which is on the basis of a family member of EEA national exercising treaty rights.

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:26 pm

Even for naturalisation? It's totally not fair

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:49 pm

lapkapups wrote:Even for naturalisation? It's totally not fair :(

How so?

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:57 pm

lapkapups wrote:Even for naturalisation? It's totally not fair

It is not needed for naturalisation. It's needed for PR. PR is needed for naturalisation. There are no short-cuts here.

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:19 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
lapkapups wrote:Even for naturalisation? It's totally not fair
How so?

In the way that it's not fair to judge someone on somebody else's merit. It's irrelevant what I've been doing but it's relevant what my husband's been doing. Is it fair to judge me by his actions?

In any case, I understand the logic behind naturalisation / PR now. It's like applying for both at the same time. Thank you, Jambo.

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:25 pm

lapkapups wrote:In the way that it's not fair to judge someone on somebody else's merit. It's irrelevant what I've been doing but it's relevant what my husband's been doing. Is it fair to judge me by his actions?

Did you complain in 2006 that it is not fair to be judged by your partner's nationality or were you happy to be able to live in the UK based on his nationality?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:29 pm

lapkapups wrote:In the way that it's not fair to judge someone on somebody else's merit. It's irrelevant what I've been doing but it's relevant what my husband's been doing. Is it fair to judge me by his actions?

It is so totally not about judging anyone. They just want to check that you have PR, and that depends (in this case) on your marriage to somebody who is European and that they (the EU citizen) were doing the right things for the right period of time.

It actually also depends a bit on your good behaviour: that you are not (1) an ongoing threat to national security or (2) an ongoing threat to big public policy. But those are generally easy to satisfy requirements for most applicants.

You are also free to include extra testimonial information as to your good character, but it is not relevant and will be ignored, so I wouldn't bother.

See: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/05 ... a-citizen/

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:39 pm

Did you complain in 2006 that it is not fair to be judged by your partner's nationality or were you happy to be able to live in the UK based on his nationality?

I'd have preferred to do it on my own but there was no choice

And in any case, I didn't expect him to spoil everything by not working.

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:41 pm

It actually also depends a bit on your good behaviour: that you are not (1) an ongoing threat to national security or (2) an ongoing threat to big public policy. But those are generally easy to satisfy requirements for most applicants.

This bit is easy so far but if HO manages ro ruin our holidays by not returning the passports as they should you never know what behaviour I might end up with

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:04 pm

lapkapups wrote: And in any case, I didn't expect him to spoil everything by not working.

There are more ways to exercise treaty rights than just employment (for example self-sufficient - living off savings or your earnings although in this case you are required to hold a private health insurance).

If your (his) case is not straightforward, I would recommend applying first for PR confirmation using form EEA4. The application is free and will flush out any issues without risking the £850 application fee for naturalisation. The downside is that it can take upto 6 months.

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:07 pm

lapkapups wrote:
It actually also depends a bit on your good behaviour: that you are not (1) an ongoing threat to national security or (2) an ongoing threat to big public policy. But those are generally easy to satisfy requirements for most applicants.
This bit is easy so far but if HO manages ro ruin our holidays by not returning the passports as they should you never know what behaviour I might end up with

If you apply by post, passports are normally returned when a decision is made (several months). If you apply using NCS, you get to keep your documents as NCS would certify the copies and forward the application on your behalf.

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:21 pm

Jambo wrote:There are more ways to exercise treaty rights than just employment (for example self-sufficient - living off savings or your earnings although in this case you are required to hold a private health insurance).

They made the requirement for this insurance in 2008 and it wasn't there in 2006 therefore we didn't know he had to have it and he didn't have it. He can't claim self-sufficient now because of this.

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:24 pm

Jambo wrote: If you apply by post, passports are normally returned when a decision is made (several months). If you apply using NCS, you get to keep your documents as NCS would certify the copies and forward the application on your behalf.

I was talking now about his application for EEA3 - I want to see if it will work and wanted to find out in case it doesn't if I am able to apply for naturalisation based on my own documents or will depend on him still. We asked for his passport back but they haven't sent it yet. So I still have time to spoil the "good behaviour"

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:40 pm

lapkapups wrote: They made the requirement for this insurance in 2008 and it wasn't there in 2006 therefore we didn't know he had to have it and he didn't have it. He can't claim self-sufficient now because of this.

Was he working in 2006 when you applied?

If he applied as self sufficient in 2006, I would argue the requirement for CSI should be exempt as it was not required for the initial application (a similar exemption is already in place for students). If he was working then and stopped, he might still be regarded as a worker (depends on the reasons for stopping work).

Did you apply for EEA4 as well?

lapkapups · Post by **lapkapups** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:07 pm

Jambo wrote:
Was he working in 2006 when you applied?

Did you apply for EEA4 as well?

He was working at that time and we applied as a worker.

No, I didn't apply for EEA4. I wanted to see first what happens with his application. If it's aproved I will apply, if it's refused, then... I don't know.

easy77 · Post by **easy77** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi,

i have got my PR for over a year now, i want to apply for naturalization, do i need to fill in 2.4 and 2.5, and submit my p60 for d past 6 years as evidence of my employment.

i urgently need a reply please....

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:17 pm

easy77 wrote:i have got my PR for over a year now

If you mean a PR confirmation from the HO following EEA3/4 application, then - yes. You can skip 2.4 section, no need for P60 and you need to provide your PR confirmation as part of the application.

presido007 · Post by **presido007** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:54 pm

Can somebody tell me, how long is 'Life in the UK' test valid for?

Can somebody take the test now and use the same test result two years later when he apply for citizenship?

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:01 pm

presido007 wrote:Can somebody tell me, how long is 'Life in the UK' test valid for?

Can somebody take the test now and use the same test result two years later when he apply for citizenship?

Life in the UK teat.

easy77 · Post by **easy77** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:55 pm

Thanks jambo!!

yes i've got a PR confirmation on my passport for over 12months.

Really appreciate!!!!

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Naturalisation Question

Naturalisation Question