EEA family permit, CoA, EEA2 and work

[matiasgfasano]

Hi,
I am an EEA national (Italian and Argentinian citizenship). My wife is a non-EEA family member (just Argentinian citizenship). I have been reading UKBA site and this forum in the last month. We want to understand what forms we need to apply to live and work in UK.
Argentinians are allowed to stay in UK as tourist without a visa for three months. Anyway I read that it is better if she apply for an EEA family permit for six months. Once in UK she should apply for an EEA2 to stay longer.
These are my questions:
-Is she allowed to apply for a permanent job having an EEA family permit?
-Is it enough if I am the only one with job so that she can apply for EEA2? -Should she get a job as well before applying for her EEA2?
-Would she be fired from her job if her EEA family permit expired and she had not received the CoA (Certificate of Application) yet?
-Does the CoE allow her to work or keep working?
-Is it better for her if I apply for an EEA1 along with her EEA2?

Thank you so much for your help.
Regards,
Matias

[Jambo]

I suggest you read EUN02 - EEA Family Permit and EU citizens - rights and responsibilities.

As for your questions:

Anyway I read that it is better if she apply for an EEA family permit for six months. Once in UK she should apply for an EEA2 to stay longer.

I would not say it is better. Some people feel it is more safe to have it before but in fact there isn't not much difference. As you said she doesn't need a visa as a tourist so she should not have a problem boarding a flight (which is the main reason other nationalities do apply for Family Permit). Once you get to the border (are you traveling together?) she should not enter as a tourist but seek to enter as a family member of EEA national. You will need to present the passports and marriage certificate. That's all. She will get a 6 months stamp in her passport which allows her to work.

-Is she allowed to apply for a permanent job having an EEA family permit?

Yes. Either with the EEA Family Permit or the 6 months stamp in the passport. When she applies to jobs, I suggest she just put "eligible to work (EEA national family member). Better not to use the word visa or to mention expiry dates.

-Is it enough if I am the only one with job so that she can apply for EEA2?

Yes. In a matter of fact, it's only what you (EEa national) do that counts. Her activities are irrelevant for EEA applications.

-Should she get a job as well before applying for her EEA2?

Doesn't matter what she do. It's your activities that matter.

-Would she be fired from her job if her EEA family permit expired and she had not received the CoA (Certificate of Application) yet?

She would be legal in the UK as long as you exercise treaty rights in the UK. CoA is issued a few weeks after applying so should not have problem getting it before the 6 months. In any case, her rights don't expire even if the document she holds expire.

-Does the CoE allow her to work or keep working?

Yes for married couples.

-Is it better for her if I apply for an EEA1 along with her EEA2?

Doesn't matter. She will need to provide your passport/ID card and proof of you exercising treaty rights with her applications. If you wish to apply for EEA1 all you need to do is add an application form (as all the documents are required for your wife application anyway) but this is not mandatory and will have no affect on her application.

[matiasgfasano]

Hi Jambo,
Thanks for your answers. I read both links that you recommended. They clarified many things I did not know.

I have some more questions to ask:

* Let's pretend UKBA officer refuse an EEA family permit to my wife. Will they put a "refused" stamp in my wife passport? Will that affect future EEA Family permits or EEA2 applications?

* YOu mentioned this:

Yes. Either with the EEA Family Permit or the 6 months stamp in the passport. When she applies to jobs, I suggest she just put "eligible to work (EEA national family member). Better not to use the word visa or to mention expiry dates.

Will my wife have to prove his employee that she is legal? E.g. Showing her passport with EEA family permit/stamp 1A, my Italian passport and/or our marriage certificate. Won't he realize that her EEA family permit/stamp 1A is valid only for 6 months?

* You mentioned this:

Once you get to the border (are you traveling together?) she should not enter as a tourist but seek to enter as a family member of EEA national. You will need to present the passports and marriage certificate. That's all. She will get a 6 months stamp in her passport which allows her to work.

Yes, we are travelling together. Is this stamp that you mentioned a code 1A? Is there any risk of receiving another type of stamp (without right of working) even though she proves to be married with an EEA national (me) via our marriage certificate?

* I read this in UKBA site:

The EEA family permit should be valid for 6 months from the date of issue and may be used for multiple entries to the UK during that period. (eun2.20)

Does "multiple entries" mean that an EEA family permit holder can get in and out of UK without needing to request a new EEA FP during six month period?

* Would it be useful for me to request an EEA1?

Thank you very much.
Regards,

[Jambo]

* Let's pretend UKBA officer refuse an EEA family permit to my wife. Will they put a "refused" stamp in my wife passport? Will that affect future EEA Family permits or EEA2 applications?

Not sure if she will get a stamp or not but it will not affect any future applications.

Will my wife have to prove his employee that she is legal? E.g. Showing her passport with EEA family permit/stamp 1A, my Italian passport and/or our marriage certificate. Won't he realize that her EEA family permit/stamp 1A is valid only for 6 months?

some employers are familiar with the EEA rules. Other not. So that's why she is advised to apply for a 5 years Residence Card as soon as possible. Showing potential employers that such application is under consideration might be enough.

Yes, we are travelling together. Is this stamp that you mentioned a code 1A? Is there any risk of receiving another type of stamp (without right of working) even though she proves to be married with an EEA national (me) via our marriage certificate?

Yes. This is 1A stamp. If she proves to be a family member of EEA national, she has a right to work. The stamp just confirms this right. Under EEA regulations, there is no requirement to ask permission from the HO to work.

Does "multiple entries" mean that an EEA family permit holder can get in and out of UK without needing to request a new EEA FP during six month period?

Yes. Alternatively, she can show a copy of your passport + marriage certificate every time she enters or if she applied for a RC, then the letter from the HO confirming the application (CoA - Certificate of Application).

* Would it be useful for me to request an EEA1?

Useful - not sure as there is nothing you need this for. However, as you need to send your documents anyway to support your wife's application, in practice this just mean to fill in a form and attached two photos. Applying for EEA1 or not, will not have any affect on your wife's application.

[naija99]

I have a friend who is an Italian national. He has 7 children. Two of whom lived in Ghana until he applied for a Family Permit for them. Initially the application was refused but after DNA test results the application was granted and they went to live in Italy with their father and now have a right of residence in Italy.

The father then came to live in the UK with his wife and their youngest two daughters who have Italian passports. He later applied for the other two daughters (the ones with right of residence in Italy) but the application was refused.

The reasons for refusal are as follows:
Their Ghanaian Birth Certificates were issued in 2004 despite the fact they were born in 1987 and 1988. Also the birth certificates do not bear the official apostle. (They lost the originals when they moved to Italy from the UK).

They have failed to show that they are wholly or mainly financially dependent on the EEA national because they stated in their application that their older sisters in Italy were supporting them. (They said this because their parents were in the UK).

The ECO is therefore not satisfied that they meet Reg 7.

My friend is their biological father. He owns the house in Italy that the whole family live in and pays the mortgage. He is exercising treaty rights in the UK. One of the daughters that has been refused is deaf (after contracting meningitis) and she is therefore heavily dependent upon him.

He has lodged an appeal but wants to know
1) what kind of documents he can use to support his case.
2) The appeal is taking extremely long, can he simply apply again and travel with them to the UK.
3) Can he submit some documents and ask them to reconsider?
4) Any other useful tips?

[matiasgfasano]

Hi Jambo,
Thanks for your previous answers.
I want to ask you something more.
I reviewed the "Changes to the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006" and I don't fully understand them:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... egulations
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... a-regs.pdf

Does this affect my case?
I have Argentinian and Italian citizenship. My wife has only Argentinian citizenship. We got married in Argentina a year ago. We have no children. We went to UK for holidays twice. None of us have a previous marriage.

Thanks,
Matias

[Jambo]

Hi Jambo,
Thanks for your previous answers.
I want to ask you something more.
I reviewed the "Changes to the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006" and I don't fully understand them:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... egulations
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... a-regs.pdf

Does this affect my case?
I have Argentinian and Italian citizenship. My wife has only Argentinian citizenship. We got married in Argentina a year ago. We have no children. We went to UK for holidays twice. None of us have a previous marriage.

Thanks,
Matias

No.

[matiasgfasano]

Hi Jambo,
We finally moved to UK on January 18th. My wife and I are Argentinian. I also have Italian citizenship. My wife only has Argentinian citizenship. She obtained an EEA family Permit last September. This family permit expires on March 18th. Given that she had an EEA Family Permit then UKBA did not put any stamp to her passport when she entered to UK. Now both of us are looking for jobs. We are IT professionals.

I have some questions for you:
1) Is it better if she applies for EE2 once I do have a job? I have some savings in a UK bank account and I can say that both of us can live with that money exercising treaty rights. Is it better to wait for a job anyway?
2) We already went to some interviews with recruiters. They are not familiars with EEA family permits. I explained to them that she has the right of work because of our marriage. I also told them that the family permit is just a confirmation of her right. Is there any phone number they can call if they have questions about her right to work in UK? Is Jobcenter Plus helpful for that?
3) She already applied for the NI number. She is waiting for Jobcenter Plus reply. Will NI number help her to prove that she has the right to work here?
4) Is she elegible for NHS? Should she wait to obtain her NI number in order to go to a local surgery and register to a GP?

Thanks Jambo for all your help.
Regards,
Matias

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Basically, you have three "free" months in the UK before you must be doing something meaningful, ie job-seeking, working, student (needs Comprehensive sickness insurance) or self-sufficient (needs CSI).

Given that you've just got to the UK, you have some time yet.

If you have a job, then the EEA2 application will be very straightforward.

[Jambo]

1. It is easier/simpler to apply when you have a job but you can also apply now based on your savings (self sufficient). In that case you also need private health insurance for both of you.
2. That is why applying for RC (as self sufficient) using EEA2 might be better now than later. JobCentre can't really help with immigration status.
3. Having NI doesn't prove you are eligible to work
4. You are eligible for NHS and can register at the clinic. You don't need a NI. Some clinics would ask for proof of address but not much more than that.

[matiasgfasano]

Hi Jambo,
Thanks for your previous answers.
I wanted to ask you something more:
1-If my wife applies for a EEA2 she will obtain a COA at some point. Is COA as good as RC to prove her right to work or is RC the only document that employers consider?
2-Is my wife also elegible to work as contract or just permanent positions?
Regards,
Matias

[Jambo]

1. The CoA should be good enough to satisfy an employer. See the discussion - Employer Check procedure for Residency Card Holder.

2. Any job is allowed although she might find employer reluctant to offer long term employment with a document valid for 6 months.