I re-entered with expired Family Permit (non-VISA national)

[1878]

I believe the Schengen visa is less of a worry. You should be more worried how your visa national wife would board a flight with an expired FP. The CoA is good to enter the UK if you can get to the border but is not accepted by airlines to board a flight (unless you manage to convince them on the ground).

Currently they are refusing to issue a Schengen visa with the return date we want (a date after the expiry of the EEA FP). I don't want my wife to overstay in Norway and the trouble this might cause for her.

Why do you believe the Schengen visa is less of a worry?

I am not concerned about boarding the flight.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

From a legal perspective I think it is clear that she will not be overstaying. For her the Schengen visa acts only as an entry visa. Her length of stay allowed depends only on you being there with her.

Note that you will get hassle from the border guards on your departure, but they will be powerless to cause real problems.

But let me be 100% clear. I personally would go for the short visa and stay longer than the stated time.

But if you and/or your wife have an active desire to avoid confrontation, then I would suggest you reduce the length of your trip.

Also note it is very important for you to carry your marriage certificate and proof that you are working in the UK.

[1878]

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, we want to celebrate Christmas with my family so if my wife do not get the RC in time we will apply for the short visa (unless Solvit UK or the European Commission convince the embassy that they are wrong and issue a longer visa) and stay until the 26th.

Just out of curiosity, how I will confront the border guards when they cause us trouble? Simply state my wife's length of stay depend on me staying with her because of the Directive/2004/38/EC and Norway's implementation of this rule?

I am exercising treaty rights as a student but I think in this case that does not change anything or am I wrong?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Have you been working for money at all in the UK?

[1878]

No.

[1878]

From a legal perspective I think it is clear that she will not be overstaying. For her the Schengen visa acts only as an entry visa. Her length of stay allowed depends only on you being there with her.

Can you please elaborate on this matter?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Have you been working for money at all in the UK?

The original ECJ Singh ruling was writing in terms of the EU citizen being employed or self employed in the host member state. And then when they returned to their home member state, EU rules applied to the family member's entry. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

That may or may not be important for your return to Norway.

Are Norwegian nationals considered to be EEA nationals?
In some cases, Norwegian nationals can be considered to be EEA nationals. This will only apply if the Norwegian national has:
- had an established family life with you in another EU/EEA/EFTA country, and
- exercised his/her right to free movement (been an employee, self-employed, service provider, had sufficient funds or student) there, and
- you now have moved to Norway together.

[1878]

Since we will only visit Norway for a limited time period I do not know how relevant this will be, e.g. we will not move to live there.

Anyway, my main issue is the Norwegian Embassy's reluctance to issue a Schengen visa with a return date after the expiry of the EEA. They claim the right to return to the UK is only proved in the form of a valid EEA FP or a RC.

They also claim my wife will stay illegally in the UK after the 22nd of December 2012 if we have not renewed this EEA FP or applied for a RC.

I have sent them an email with the letter from the Minister of Immigration and asked what they make of it. Will post an update here as soon as get a reply.

Thank you again for your information and help in this matter.

[1878]

Email response after I confronted them with the letter from Immigration Minister:
"
Hey,

If your wife wants to leave the UK and back again after the permit she has in the passport has expired, this is a discussion you should have with the British government and border control. When it comes to go to Norway, she must have a valid Schengen visa in the passport. As explained earlier, she must have at least three months left of her British residence permit (passport or residence card) in order to apply the Schengen visa at the Norwegian Embassy in London.

Regards
Consular Section"

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You might want to point them to the UKBA web site.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ts-family/

This page explains why the non-European family members of European or Swiss citizens may want to apply for confirmation that they have the right to live in the UK. It also describes the documents that they can apply for.

Do you need to apply?

You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national.

However, you may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation, as:

you may have difficulty proving that you are lawfully resident in the UK;
if you leave the UK, you will usually need to obtain an EEA family permit before returning here, in order to guarantee readmission as the family member of a qualified EEA national; and
you may find it difficult to obtain or change employment.

You should also point them to the Schengen Visa Handbook: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/ec/An ... ok2010.pdf

3.3. Granting every facility

Member States shall grant third country family members of EU citizens falling under the
Directive every facility to obtain the necessary visa. This notion must be interpreted as
ensuring that Member States take all appropriate measures to ensure fulfilment of the
obligations arising out of the right of free movement and afford to such visa applicants the
best conditions to obtain the entry visa.

3.8. Refusal to issue a visa

A family member may be refused a visa exclusively on the following grounds:
• the visa applicant failed to demonstrate that he is covered by the Directive on the
basis of the visa application and attached supporting documents under point 3.6
(i.e. it is clear that the reply to at least one of the three questions referred to above
is negative);
• the national authorities demonstrate that the visa applicant is a genuine, present
and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, public security or public health; or
• the national authorities demonstrate that there was abuse or fraud.
In the latter two cases, the burden of proof lies with the national authorities as they must be
able to present evidence to support their claim that the visa applicant (who has presented
sufficient evidence to attest that he/she meets the criteria in the Directive) should not be
issued with an entry visa on grounds of public policy, public security or public health or on
grounds of abuse or fraud.
The authorities must be able to build a convincing case while respecting all the safeguards of
the Directive which must be correctly and fully transposed in national law. The decision
refusing the visa application on grounds of public policy, public security or public health or
on grounds of abuse or fraud must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by listing all
legal and material aspect taken into account when concluding that the marriage is a marriage
of convenience or that the presented birth certificate is fake) and must specify where and
when the appeal can be lodged.

[1878]

Directive/2004/38/EC, I think my main concern is that my wife will only be issued with a

"A short stay visa with limited territorial validity ("LTV") entitles the holder to stay only in the Member State(s) for which the visa is valid."

and not a

"Uniform short stay visas entitle the holder to stay in the territories of all Member States for a period of maximum 90 days/180 days. Such visas may be issued for the purpose of a single ("C") or multiple entries ("MEV C Visas")."

In that case will she still be overstaying in Norway past the relevant date even if she stays with me? If not, which provision regulates this right?

Another reply from Norwegian Embassy:

"Yes, a residence permit in her passport is a physical confirmation of the right to stay. This goes without saying. But this physical verification is necessary to obtain a Schengen visa.

Entry to the UK is the British authorities to comment on, so you can take that discussion with them.

The general rule for all visa applicants for Schengen countries that are seeking here is that they must have three months left of the residence permit in the UK. As we have previously discussed the possibility of issuing visas closer to the expiration date, this was actually an attempt to be helpful. You have argued and debated this issue in a number of e-mails and phone calls with us, but the situation remains the same.

Regards
Consular Section"

Thanks again.

[1878]

To those who are interested: reply from European Commission on my enquiry:

A couple of things to consider before you read:

1) I do not know why they refer to me as worker when I explicitly told them I am a student and I think this means Surinder case is not relevant
2) However this fact does not change the fact that my wife has still the right to enter UK post her EEA FP expiry date which is the reason to why the Norwegian Embassy is refusing to issue a Schengen visa valid until after the expiry date. I will post another update when I get a reply clarifying this.
3) They also call the EEA FP a visa and say my wife need a visa to enter UK. This is both wrong. She just need to prove on the border that we are married and that I am exercising treaty rights.

Reply:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.

Although Norway in not party to the European Union, it is party to the European Economic Area, by virtue of which you and your spouse enjoy rights of free movement there as well.
Under the EEA agreement, you have the right to enter, visit, and reside in any Member State of the European Economic Area (under Directive 2004/38 which is a text that has legal relevance where the EEA is concerned).

Your question relates to the difficulties your wife has encountered in the processing of an application for a Schengen visa at the Norwegian Consulate in London.

You are a Norwegian citizen (resident in the UK as a worker) and you are married to a Chinese citizen. Your wife holds a UK entry visa, issued to you by virtue of Article 5 paragraph 2 Directive 2004/38. This visa is valid for 6 months, expiring on the 22nd December 2012.

The Norwegian Embassy in London is refusing to issue your wife with a Schengen visa with an expiry date after the 22nd of December (E.g 26th of December) because they are claiming she has no right to return/admission/enter the UK after the 22nd of December.

Effectively, where this Schengen visa is issued (ie. valid only until the 22nd December 2012), your wife WOULD be able to travel to Norway. In law, her lawful stay in Norway could not be limited to that date (the 22nd December 2012), given that from the moment your wife lands in Norway, she is a lawful resident in Norway, by EU law; the fact that your wife's Schengen visa expires on the 22nd December 2012 could and may not render your wife's stay in Norway illegal, given your enjoyment of a right of residence EU law. Authority for this is Caselaw (Surinder Singh Case C370/90).

Where your wife stays in Norway beyond the 22nd December, she faces the practical difficulties on travelling back to the UK. Whilst entitled to obtain admission into the UK, she is still obliged to obtain an entry visa (another one), which she would have to apply for in Norway, at the British Embassy.

In your case, the approach taken by the Norwegian consulate appears to be incompatible with the with the rights vested in your spouse by virtue of EU law (Caselaw, Surinder Singh Case C-370/90).

Thus, where your spouse is returning with you to Norway, from another Member State where you have exercised your rights as a worker, your spouse benefits from the right of admission and residence in your own state of origin. This caselaw has received further clarification from the Court of Justice of the European Union in the case of Eind (Case C-291/05).

Your spouse’s rights must therefore be analogous to those of a family member beneficiary under Directive 2004/38, and be processed under the same provisions.

Accordingly, the Norwegian authorities’ advice according to which they will not process your spouse’s Schengen visa in the way desired by you and your wife on the basis that she will not have a valid UK entry visa at the time of your intended return to the UK is incompatible with EU law.

This is true given that the UK entry visa in question only has a declaratory value.

In law the answer is quite clear:

The UK entry visa is declaratory of your wife’s right of admission in the UK, which your spouse enjoys by direct application of Directive 2004/38. What this means is that the UK visa does not create any rights; It can only confirm the rights that your spouse enjoy inasmuch as she can prove that she is married to an EU citizen who is travelling with her; Articles 2, 5, 6 and 7 of Directive 2004/38);

The declaratory nature of residence and visa documents is a well settled doctrine in the caselaw.

(see Case C-408/03 Commission v Belgium [2006] ECR I-2647, paragraphs 62 and 63 and case-law cited).

Quoting the Court of Justice in the case of Dias, Case C 325/09 at paragraph 54

“the declaratory character of residence permits means that those permits merely certify that a right already exists. Consequently, [the] declaratory character [of a residence card] means that a citizen’s residence may not be regarded as illegal, within the meaning of European Union law, solely on the ground that he does not hold a residence permit.”

This is further reinforced in Directive 2004/38 under Article 25 which provides:

Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof.

Furthermore, the Norwegian Consulate is under the duty to facilitate the issue of a visa under the best circumstances (article 5 paragraph 2 Directive 2004/38).

In the light of the above, and given the obligation by the Norwegian authorities to facilitate the issue of the Schengen visa (under Directive 2004/38), the fact that your spouse’s UK entry visa expires on the 22nd December is not sufficient legal grounds for limiting the validity of your spouse's Schengen visa in line with the validity of her UK entry visa.

The UK authorities are themselves well aware of the obligation under Article 5 paragraph 2 Directive 2004/38 ("duty to facilitate"), as illustrated by the policy guidelines which indicate that the EEA family permit may be applied for anywhere in the world, even where the applicant is not normally or legally resident (for reference, see EUN2.2 Where can an EEA family permit be issued?) http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /eun/eun2/!

Instead, the Norwegian authorities are bound to consider the underlying evidence proving that your spouse is entitled to reside both in the UK and in Norway: e.g.

Proof that you are a Norwegian citizen (your ID card or Passport)
Proof that your spouse is married to you (marriage certificate)
Proof that you are a worker in the UK;
Proof that you are living together in the UK;
Proof that you are travelling together to Norway;

The process of the Visa by the Norwegian authorities is regulated under the “Visa Code”:

The visa code is established by virtue of REGULATION (EC) No 810/2009 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 13 July 2009 establishing a Community Code on Visas

Please follow the link for more information concerning the subject matter of Schengen visas:
http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ml#20122_5

You will also glean very useful information from the European Commission”handbook” which is meant to provide for uniform guidelines, so as to ensure a uniform application of the Regulation (“the Visa Code”).

For the text of the handbook, please visit the following link:
http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_en.pdf


Note the New Visa Code is made expressly subject to the rights to be derived from European Free Movement law, which your spouse may benefit from under Caselaw (reference given above) along with Directive 2004/38 (provided you travel together to another Member State).

Please follow the link for more information concerning the subject matter of Schengen visas:
http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ml#20122_5

Note that Immigration Officers throughout the EU have a limited power to deny entry to third country nationals who come under the scope of the Directive. This is provided under Article 5 paragraph 4, of Directive 2004/38. However, this provision of limited value, given that your spouse is likely to be refused boarding a plane if you do not hold the required entry visa (given that the Airline would be fined by the relevant authorities for having allowed someone to board the plane who did not have the required visa).

Given the many instances where Member States have been found to misapply the terms of European Community law in this field, the European Commission has been compelled to issue guidelines on the subject.

Please follow the link:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:EN:PDF

I refer you to page 7 of the document at Section 2.2.1 “entry visas” of the document.

Given the issues that you have had with the Norwegian authorities, you are advised to contact Solvit in order to lodge a complaint; Solvit aims to resolve cases of incorrect application of EU law:

https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/solvit/app ... anguage=no


Alternatively, you may also wish to contact a Norwegian lawyer who may be able to assist;
http://www.ccbe.eu/index.php?id=140&L=0

As for your wife's status in the UK, you are advised to contact the following:

You can get further advice concerning means of legal redress through the Citizens’ Advice Bureau.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice

Alternatively, you may seek the assistance of a law centre:

http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/directory/location/London/

Please find the link to the Law Society website, with a search engine to locate a lawyer by area of specialization and proximity to domicile. In your case, European Union Free movement .

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingan ... icitor.law

The AIRE centre will provide direct legal advice and assistance on a case by case basis:

http://www.airecentre.org/law_index.html


I trust the above answers the questions you had and thank you again for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.

Kind regards.
Your Europe Advice.

To submit another enquiry, please visit Your Europe Advice, but do not reply to this e-mail.

Your original enquiry was:
Dear Your Europe Advice,

My name is and I am a Norwegian citizen. I am exercising treaty rights as a student. My wife is a Chinese citizen and she is staying in the UK under European law, regulated by The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 and Directive 2004/38/EC on the right to move and reside freely.

She currently has a EEA Family Permit on which she entered the UK on the 24th of June 2012. The document has an expiry date of 22nd of December 2012 (I do not understand why UKBA issue this document with an expiry dates as my wife still has the same rights after this date)

We want to travel to Norway for Christmas from 14th of December until 22nd of December. She needs to apply for a Schengen visa to enter Norway.

Our problem is that the Norwegian Embassy in London is refusing to issue her with a Schengen visa with a valid date after the 22nd of December (E.g 26th of December) because they are claiming she has no right to return/admission/enter the UK after the 22nd of December.

A family members right of admission to the UK is regulated by Article 11.4 of The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 which states

"(4) Before an immigration officer refuses admission to the United Kingdom to a person under this regulation because the person does not produce on arrival a document mentioned in paragraph (1) or (2), the immigration officer must give the person every reasonable opportunity to obtain the document or have it brought to him within a reasonable period of time or to prove by other means that he is—

(a) an EEA national;

(b) a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him in the United Kingdom"

In light of this regulation the Norwegian Embassy is still claiming my wife has no legal right to enter the UK beyond the 22nd of December and hence they are refusing to issue her with a Schengen visa.They are refusing to listen to me.

What can I do?

Best

Would you like to tell YOUR EUROPE ADVICE whether you were satisfied with this reply? Click here.

Yours sincerely,

Your Europe Advice

[hellrose]

The stamp can actually say whatever, and it may be that Stamp 1A does say that. But you entered on the basis of the European rules.

Are you Canadian?

Yes I am Canadian. Born in South Korea but I've been Canadian for a while now.

This is stamp Code 1A (see comprehensive guidance page 40). It says Leave to enter as this is the only suitable stamp they got to use (which is a UK immigration rules stamp).

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation.

1878 I hope your situation gets sorted, it seems to be a more complex problem than mine.

[1878]

My wife got issued with a Schengen visa today after I contacted Immigration in Norway who explained to the Consulate in London I was right and they were wrong.

Will still pursue this case through Solvit and I will complain to the Department of Immigration in Norway about the arrogant behavior and lack of knowledge of the personnel at the Consulate.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

My wife got issued with a Schengen visa today after I contacted Immigration in Norway who explained to the Consulate in London I was right and they were wrong.

Maybe you can fill us in.

Which department did you contact at Immigration in Norway ( http://www.udi.no/Norwegian-Directorate-of-Immigration/ )? How did you contact them?

What did you say?

What did they say?

How long did it take?

Anything interesting in writing?

[1878]

On the 19th of October, I sent an email to ots@udi.no which is The Information service. See link (http://www.udi.no/Norwegian-Directorate ... ntact-UDI/)

I explained the situation but they did not give me a proper answer. I persisted and they forwarded my email to the department responsible for the issue of visas: visumservice@udi.no

On the 29th of October, I got a reply from a special case worker who knew what she talked about:

(translated from google)

I understand that you and your Chinese spouse want to visit Norway for Christmas. When your spouse at the time does not have a residence card issued by the United Kingdom as the family member of an EEA national, she will need a visa. For family members of EU-/EEA-citizens However, the terms of the grant are not as stringent as for third country nationals, see Immigration Regulations § 3-8. Visas will be granted, if the family member documents the following:

valid travel document, which allows crossing

family relationship with the EU / EEA national (by providing proof of marriage, in your case), and that

he / she is traveling together or to be reunited with EU / EEA national (for example, both of air or the like).

It is not a condition that the applicant is legally residing in the country of the applicant from (as opposed to other visa applicants, who must prove legal residence if the applicant from a country other than that they are citizens of).

Foreign missions may otherwise refuse to issue a visa if the applicant is registered in the Schengen Information System (SIS) - this usually means that the person is wanted in the Schengen area or have a current deportation order from one of the member, or if the applicant is considered a threat to Norway and other Schengen countries' public policy, internal security, etc. (see the Immigration Act, § 10).

Family members of EU / EEA citizens should not pay a fee when submitting the visa application. There is also no requirement for travel or medical insurance.

On the 31th of October I called the consulate in London, asked for the consul and asked her politely to call the special case worker with UDI (who are the authority). Later that day I received an email from the consul where she told me they have arranged for a Schengen visa to issued.

Today, we went to the deliver our documents and a Schengen visa was issued a few hours later.

The lady accepting our documents said that "we should not actually do this". I smirked and said "well, you are not doing your job if you do not issue a Schengen visa".

The Embassy personnel have been incredible arrogant through this whole process and it was a great pleasure to prove I was right.

[umair55]

My wife (Visa national) has a similar issue but the Norwegian embassy refuse to issue her with a Schengen visa beyond the date of the EEA FP expiry date.

Is that allowed? We will be traveling together and I am exercising treaty rights so that means she is allowed to re-enter UK regardless of the expiry on her EEA FP. They blame on their computers and claim they cannont enter dates manually. They have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. Very annoying.

Complain loudly. That is very incorrect!

You can even just tell them that you are not certain if you will even return to the UK: if things work out really super well in Norway during your visit you will just stay and work.

i need help abt my eea family permit can any 1 help me plzz @
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 078#743078

[Neelze]

Me and my wife we have travelled 3 times out and back into the UK with an expired family permit. Two of those times we even re-entered with an expired EEA family permit, no CoA AND a refused EEA 2 application (lack of comprehensive health insurance). Even so we were always re-admitted.

1. The first time we came back to the UK (Heathrow) from an overseas trip we didn't yet know that our EEA2 application had been denied. The decision had been made while we were gone. We had a friendly agent at the border with a can-do attitude who seemed knowledgable. We told the official our spiel (married, residing in London, entering as an EEA family member, applied for residence card but not CoA etc.) and he then went off into a back-room office to check on our case. When he came back (after 10-15 mins) he informed us that our application had been denied, because of the health insurance. Even so he let us back in (with a six month stamp) to 'sort this thing out' he said with a smile on his face.

2. Just two weeks later we travelled to France for a wedding. At the UK border (London City) we told the official our Spiel (married, residing in London, entering as EEA family member, denied residence card application, intending to re-apply). Without a fuss, the official went into the back-office, leaving us waiting for 10-15 mins. When he came back he stamped a fresh 6 month visa into the passport mumbling something like 'since you are an EU citizen I have to give your wife this'. Sweet - he knew the law!

3. We then re-applied for the residence card, received a CoA promptly and travelled again for Christmas this year. At the border (Gatwick) we encountered a less knowledgable official than the other two. We told him our Spiel, showed him the CoA and the letter that the UKBA sent along with our passports (as evidence that our process was still ongoing). The official said that 'we had had three chances to regularize our stay' and that by getting our passports back we had effectively withdrawn our application. We politely told him that this was not the case and that our application was still pending. Off he went to his back office, coming back after 5 minutes. Without a word he stamped another 6 month leave to remain into the passport and waved us through (it turned out our residence card had been granted the very same day, so he probably saw that.)


So it's really not much of a problem to travel with an expired family permit. Sometimes you might just need to educate the border agents. We always had a stack of supporting documents with us (bills, marriage certificate, printouts from the UKBA webpage and handbooks, etc.), but they never wanted to see them (but it calmed our nerves). Once you applied for a residence card (and a record has been established) they are apparently able to read all the documents you submitted and all the communication between the UKBA and you on their computers.

Anyway, happy travelling!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Me and my wife we have travelled 3 times out and back into the UK with an expired family permit. Two of those times we even re-entered with an expired EEA family permit, no CoA AND a refused EEA 2 application (lack of comprehensive health insurance). Even so we were always re-admitted.

1. The first time we came back to the UK (Heathrow) from an overseas trip we didn't yet know that our EEA2 application had been denied. The decision had been made while we were gone. We had a friendly agent at the border with a can-do attitude who seemed knowledgable. We told the official our spiel (married, residing in London, entering as an EEA family member, applied for residence card but not CoA etc.) and he then went off into a back-room office to check on our case. When he came back (after 10-15 mins) he informed us that our application had been denied, because of the health insurance. Even so he let us back in (with a six month stamp) to 'sort this thing out' he said with a smile on his face.

2. Just two weeks later we travelled to France for a wedding. At the UK border (London City) we told the official our Spiel (married, residing in London, entering as EEA family member, denied residence card application, intending to re-apply). Without a fuss, the official went into the back-office, leaving us waiting for 10-15 mins. When he came back he stamped a fresh 6 month visa into the passport mumbling something like 'since you are an EU citizen I have to give your wife this'. Sweet - he knew the law!

3. We then re-applied for the residence card, received a CoA promptly and travelled again for Christmas this year. At the border (Gatwick) we encountered a less knowledgable official than the other two. We told him our Spiel, showed him the CoA and the letter that the UKBA sent along with our passports (as evidence that our process was still ongoing). The official said that 'we had had three chances to regularize our stay' and that by getting our passports back we had effectively withdrawn our application. We politely told him that this was not the case and that our application was still pending. Off he went to his back office, coming back after 5 minutes. Without a word he stamped another 6 month leave to remain into the passport and waved us through (it turned out our residence card had been granted the very same day, so he probably saw that.)


So it's really not much of a problem to travel with an expired family permit. Sometimes you might just need to educate the border agents. We always had a stack of supporting documents with us (bills, marriage certificate, printouts from the UKBA webpage and handbooks, etc.), but they never wanted to see them (but it calmed our nerves). Once you applied for a residence card (and a record has been established) they are apparently able to read all the documents you submitted and all the communication between the UKBA and you on their computers.

Anyway, happy travelling!

What is your nationality? If not a visa national, you get to argue your case at the border, visa nationals may not be so lucky.

[Neelze]

You're right. It helps getting to the border in the first place. My wife is a non-visa national.

But it is really not much arguing at the border. Instead they disappeared quickly into their back-office.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

You're right. It helps getting to the border in the first place. My wife is a non-visa national.

But it is really not much arguing at the border. Instead they disappeared quickly into their back-office.

Thanks for clarifying that. I admire you for standing your ground, but if one can't even board a flight...(take care visa nationals)

[Jambo]

Being a non-visa national even the (now expired) EEA Family Permit wasn't really required in the first place.