Refusals for EEA family permit

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:40 pm

ECO wrote: Your Application
You have applied for admission to the United Kingdom by virtue of European Community Law as the family member of a European Economic Area national who is exercising, or wishes to exercise, rights of free movement under the Treaty of Rome in the United Kingdom.

The Decision
• Regulation 6 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 requires you to show that your sponsor is a "qualified person". The onus is on you and your sponsor to show that she is a jobseeker or has employment in the UK.

Regulation 6 is only applicable after 3 months living in the UK. It is not relevant for EEA Family Permit application if the EEA national is not living in the UK. See EUN2.4 What are the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit? and also from the same page:

"Please note: because of the initial right of residence, the ECO cannot refuse someone on the basis that that their EEA national family member will not be a qualified person in the UK on arrival. However, if the ECO is satisfied that the EEA national has been in the UK for longer than three months, the ECO must be satisfied that the EEA national is a qualified person."

• I note that you previously applied under the same category; that application was refused on 19/6/2012 for the following reasons:
• "You have provided no evidence that your sponsor is searching for work, or any evidence of her ability to do so. In your application form you state that you are searching for work, and the job adverts you have supplied are for you.

As the previous point, this is not required.

• Within your current application you have submitted a supporting letter from (My Solicitor); this states that, in part, the following documents have been provide:
- Evidence of accommodation arranged for your stay; and
- Details of potential job opportunities for your sponsor and yourself.
• It is not relevant to your application whether or not you are or have been seeking employment in the UK.

The ECO is right that your job seeking status is irrelevant but so is your wife's !
Evidence of accommodation is not required for EEA applications. It is clear that the lawyer is not familiar with EEA application (accommodation details are required under other UK immigration categories).

• Your sponsor has qualifications in chemistry, and I note there are various printouts from job websites in this field. I also note that the accommodation evidence indicates that you intend to stay in London; however there the various print outs from job websites cover the following areas in the UK: Runcorn; Oxfordshire; the North East; Harrogate; Cambridgeshire; the West Midlands; Lincolnshire; Gloucestershire; East Sussex; Derbyshire; Dartford; and Flitwick. It is reasonable to expect a person seeking employment in the UK to have a reasonable idea of where they intend to settle and live; the spread of locations of these jobs are indicative of someone simply printing off job advertisements to lodge with your application; there is no evidence whatsoever that your sponsor has actually applied for any of the employment positions in the UK. It is reasonable to expect your sponsor to show that she is genuinely a job seeker or has gained employment in the UK; this would include acknowledgement that she has applied for employment; there is no such documentation o show this.

As example what unnecessary documents can lead to. This evidence is not required but the ECO used it against you.

• I also note that you have failed to provide a copy of your sponsor's Home Office registration. This is a requirement under EEA regulations and following such registration your sponsor would be given an EEA residence permit card for the UK. There is no evidence to show that your sponsor is in the UK and/or is genuinely actively seeking employment.

Why the ECO thinks that your wife is in the UK? Did you state so on the application?

• Taking into account your circumstances, based on the information and documentation that you have provided and considering your application as a whole, I am not satisfied that you have adequately demonstrated that your sponsor is exercising his Treaty rights and therefore that you meet the requirements for non-EEA national spouse of an EEA National applying for an EEA Family Permit
• I have also taken account of article 8 of the Human Rights Act. I consider that refusing this application is justified and proportionate in the exercise of the immigration control. I do not believe that refusing this application will interfere with family life, for the purposes of article 8 (1), as you can continue to enjoy that in India.
I therefore refuse your EEA family permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:53 pm

Jambo wrote:
donald_f wrote:Till date she has not been outside of India. She was born and is still living in India with us. Her Portuguese nationality papers were also processed at the Portuguese consulate (Goa) and some in Lisbon.
In that case, the reasons for refusal are completely rubbish.

How much was the lawyer involved in preparing the application? As part of the blame for the refusals is that the application contained unnecessary documentations which just confused the ECO / gave him (unlawful) reasons for refusal.

You should have only applied with:

1. Passport (Portuguese for your wife, Indian for you and your son).
2. Marriage certificate.
3. Birth certificate for your son.

That's all.

All the extra job seeking proof is not required.

I totally agree, the refusals are completely rubbish. Thats the reason my lawyer insisted we go for an appeal as there are enough of grounds to overtrun the refusal.

Lawyer was involed right from the start. During the first refusal UKBA refused on grounds that we has not produced evidence that she is a quilified person. so we fulfilled that requirement by applying again.

As part off the application the following documents were submitted.

1. Proof of funds in both our names
2. Marriage certificate from India and Portugal
3. Birth certificate for my son
4. Investments in both our names
5. Her educational certificate to prove she is a qualified person
6. Our wedding Invites and Photo to prove its not shame marriage
7. Her passport and citizen card copies
8. My last 3 years Tax filing documents
9. Job opening advertisements for myself and my wife
and some more documents to support our claim that we have been living togather.

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:00 pm

donald_f wrote: I totally agree, the refusals are completely rubbish. Thats the reason my lawyer insisted we go for an appeal as there are enough of grounds to overtrun the refusal.

Lawyer was involed right from the start. During the first refusal UKBA refused on grounds that we has not produced evidence that she is a quilified person. so we fulfilled that requirement by applying again.

As part off the application the following documents were submitted.

1. Proof of funds in both our names
2. Marriage certificate from India and Portugal
3. Birth certificate for my son
4. Investments in both our names
5. Her educational certificate to prove she is a qualified person
6. Our wedding Invites and Photo to prove its not shame marriage
7. Her passport and citizen card copies
8. My last 3 years Tax filing documents
9. Job opening advertisements for myself and my wife
and some more documents to support our claim that we have been living togather.

I would ask for a refund for the lawyer.

The first application was incorrectly refused (see my comments in my previous post in case you missed it while typing this one). The correct way was to challenge the wrong decision either by appealing or re-applying with a new application pointing to the mistakes the ECO made. It is not the correct way to try and prove a requirement ("qualified person") which is not needed.

You have provided way too many documents.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:04 pm

When was the first application made?
When was the second application made?
Have you had a result yet from the second application, or is it still pending?

Your description suggests that your lawyer does not know much about EU free movement law. Can I ask how much they have charged you so far? How much do they want to charge you for doing the appeal?

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:17 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:When was the first application made?
When was the second application made?
Have you had a result yet from the second application, or is it still pending?

Your description suggests that your lawyer does not know much about EU free movement law. Can I ask how much they have charged you so far? How much do they want to charge you for doing the appeal?

First application was made on 28 - May - 12
Second Application on 28 - June -12

They only charged fees for my application process as my son is a minor his was done free (no fees)
Based on the decision to appeal there was no mention about thier appeal charges. I believe there wont be a seperate appeal fees, except the fees to be paid for filing an appeal (80 pounds).

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:30 pm

Jambo wrote:
ECO wrote: Your Application
You have applied for admission to the United Kingdom by virtue of European Community Law as the family member of a European Economic Area national who is exercising, or wishes to exercise, rights of free movement under the Treaty of Rome in the United Kingdom.

The Decision
• Regulation 6 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 requires you to show that your sponsor is a "qualified person". The onus is on you and your sponsor to show that she is a jobseeker or has employment in the UK.
Regulation 6 is only applicable after 3 months living in the UK. It is not relevant for EEA Family Permit application if the EEA national is not living in the UK. See EUN2.4 What are the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit? and also from the same page:

"Please note: because of the initial right of residence, the ECO cannot refuse someone on the basis that that their EEA national family member will not be a qualified person in the UK on arrival. However, if the ECO is satisfied that the EEA national has been in the UK for longer than three months, the ECO must be satisfied that the EEA national is a qualified person."

Does this apply to my case
“Qualified person”
6.—(1) In these Regulations, “qualified person” means a person who is an EEA national and in the United Kingdom as—
(a) a jobseeker;
(b) a worker;
(c) a self-employed person;
(d) a self-sufficient person; or
(e) a student.

(4) For the purpose of paragraph (1)(a), “jobseeker” means a person who enters the United Kingdom in order to seek employment and can provide evidence that he is seeking employment and has a genuine chance of being engaged.

• I note that you previously applied under the same category; that application was refused on 19/6/2012 for the following reasons:
• "You have provided no evidence that your sponsor is searching for work, or any evidence of her ability to do so. In your application form you state that you are searching for work, and the job adverts you have supplied are for you.

As the previous point, this is not required.

• Within your current application you have submitted a supporting letter from (My Solicitor); this states that, in part, the following documents have been provide:
- Evidence of accommodation arranged for your stay; and
- Details of potential job opportunities for your sponsor and yourself.
• It is not relevant to your application whether or not you are or have been seeking employment in the UK.

The ECO is right that your job seeking status is irrelevant but so is your wife's !
Evidence of accommodation is not required for EEA applications. It is clear that the lawyer is not familiar with EEA application (accommodation details are required under other UK immigration categories).

Can you point me to some link that states the above. "Evidence of accommodation is not required for EEA applications"

• Your sponsor has qualifications in chemistry, and I note there are various printouts from job websites in this field. I also note that the accommodation evidence indicates that you intend to stay in London; however there the various print outs from job websites cover the following areas in the UK: Runcorn; Oxfordshire; the North East; Harrogate; Cambridgeshire; the West Midlands; Lincolnshire; Gloucestershire; East Sussex; Derbyshire; Dartford; and Flitwick. It is reasonable to expect a person seeking employment in the UK to have a reasonable idea of where they intend to settle and live; the spread of locations of these jobs are indicative of someone simply printing off job advertisements to lodge with your application; there is no evidence whatsoever that your sponsor has actually applied for any of the employment positions in the UK. It is reasonable to expect your sponsor to show that she is genuinely a job seeker or has gained employment in the UK; this would include acknowledgement that she has applied for employment; there is no such documentation o show this.

As example what unnecessary documents can lead to. This evidence is not required but the ECO used it against you.

• I also note that you have failed to provide a copy of your sponsor's Home Office registration. This is a requirement under EEA regulations and following such registration your sponsor would be given an EEA residence permit card for the UK. There is no evidence to show that your sponsor is in the UK and/or is genuinely actively seeking employment.

Why the ECO thinks that your wife is in the UK? Did you state so on the application?

We also are asking the same question to ourself. Do we have enough of grounds to challenge this decision

• Taking into account your circumstances, based on the information and documentation that you have provided and considering your application as a whole, I am not satisfied that you have adequately demonstrated that your sponsor is exercising his Treaty rights and therefore that you meet the requirements for non-EEA national spouse of an EEA National applying for an EEA Family Permit
• I have also taken account of article 8 of the Human Rights Act. I consider that refusing this application is justified and proportionate in the exercise of the immigration control. I do not believe that refusing this application will interfere with family life, for the purposes of article 8 (1), as you can continue to enjoy that in India.
I therefore refuse your EEA family permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:20 pm

donald_f wrote:Does this apply to my case
“Qualified person”
6.—(1) In these Regulations, “qualified person” means a person who is an EEA national and in the United Kingdom as—
(a) a jobseeker;
(b) a worker;
(c) a self-employed person;
(d) a self-sufficient person; or
(e) a student.

(4) For the purpose of paragraph (1)(a), “jobseeker” means a person who enters the United Kingdom in order to seek employment and can provide evidence that he is seeking employment and has a genuine chance of being engaged.

This is the definition of qualified person from Regulation 6. As I said, for the first three months, the EEA national is not required to be a qualified person (see Regulation 13) and as the HO guide to the ECO I referred to (see my previous post) states "the ECO can't test overall intentions in assessing applications for an EEA family permit"

Can you point me to some link that states the above. "Evidence of accommodation is not required for EEA applications"

Well, it is difficult to point to a link that states that something is not required! You are also not required to wear a red shirt when applying or to be able to quote Shakespeare but I can't point you to a link that state that.
I provide you with links to what is required. If you (or your lawyer) thinks otherwise, please point to a link that state that.

We also are asking the same question to ourself. Do we have enough of grounds to challenge this decision

I think the fastest (and cheapest) way is to write a letter/email to the visa section manager complaining about these decisions and pointing to the mistakes the ECO made. I would also inform the visa section manager that you plan to make a new application and you expect it to be treated properly this time and then to reapply. Several forum member were able to overturn decisions this way without the long process of appealing.

I would reconsider whether to use the lawyer this time. They clearly not familiar with EEA regulations.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:26 pm

ECO's use the modernised guidance in assessing whether an application is to be granted or not.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

See page 9

In assessing an application from a direct family member, you must be satisfied that the applicant:
- holds a valid passport
- provides sufficient documentary evidence such as marriage or birth certificates or other evidence which shows that they qualify for an EEA family permit
- provides evidence that their EEA family member is or will be exercising free movement rights in the UK.

To qualify for an EEA family permit, the EEA national must be residing in the UK in line with the regulations or intending to travel to the UK and reside in line with the regulations within six months. The applicant must be joining or accompanying the EEA national.

This is all pretty accurate stuff on the face of it, but I wonder does it confuse ECOs? The part underlined may be the problem. For the first three months, EU nationals can reside under reg 13; thereafter reg 14 and then 15. ECO appears to refer straight to reg 14 and ignores 13.

A family permit is issued under reg 12 and part of it says:

will be travelling to the United Kingdom within six months of the date of the application and will be an EEA national residing in the United Kingdom in accordance with these Regulations on arrival in the United Kingdom

As above an EU national can reside in the UK in accordance with regulation 13, 14 or 15.

A well written complain letter may resolve this matter.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:00 pm

Has the second application already been refused, or are you still waiting for a decision?

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:03 pm

But see page 11 of the guide which at first reading could give the impression that three sets of conditions must be complied with as the word or has been removed from end of 2 of the paragraphs (compare with previous version which more clearly spells out the Regulations and contains the correct number of ors)[/quote]

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:06 pm

keffers wrote:But see page 11 of the guide which at first reading could give the impression that three sets of conditions must be complied with as the word or has been removed from end of 2 of the paragraphs (compare with previous version which more clearly spells out the Regulations and contains the correct number of ors)

Page 11 is for Extended family members so I don't think this is relevant to the OP.

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:25 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Has the second application already been refused, or are you still waiting for a decision?

donald_f wrote: I have received 2 refusals for EEA family permit from the UKBA for myself and my son.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:35 pm

Jambo wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Has the second application already been refused, or are you still waiting for a decision?

donald_f wrote:I have received 2 refusals for EEA family permit from the UKBA for myself and my son.

That is exactly why I ask!

It is ambiguous whether "2 refusals" referrs to the initial application (one for applicant and one for son), or whether it refers to the earlier application (28-May-12) and then the later application (28-June-12).

So the question stands: Has a refusal been received for the second application?

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:46 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: So the question stands: Has a refusal been received for the second application?

The first post also says

donald_f wrote: Below are the contents of the second refusal letter.

prince1475 · Post by **prince1475** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:19 am

Hello,
I am bit tensed by reading the refusal letter,it's really a unfair decision.
My wife applied for EEA FAMILY PERMIT from India, it's almost 20 working days,still application is under process i am tensed coz ECO may refuse by giving silly reason you never know this ECO'S if they can refuse Mr. Donald application according to wrong EEA Regulation than they can do anything what ever comes to their mind and may be depends on their mood. I know they had refused my friends application giving reason that biodata page of passport has not been submitted actually he have submitted his passport copy that to a certified copy anyway I complained asking them why it's getting delay got a reply from visa casework team saying that it's under process than I replied saying that how long will it take and why so delay as it is a EEA FAMILY PERMIT and according to EUN 02 priority must be given to EEA application but did not get any reply than after two days again I email them still didn't get any reply from them.
As Eusmile saying that to complain to visa manager, how can I get visa manager email ID I search through BHC India website I didn't find any email ID there is one email ID for enquiry of visa there is one more of Consular but it says no visa enquiry please Eusmile if u or anyone have visa manager email ID than please post it.I want to complain to visa manager regarding delay in decision taking. Thanks

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:15 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Has the second application already been refused, or are you still waiting for a decision?

Yes the second application has already been refused for both of us, both our application were submitted together both the times. I have pasted the contents of the second refusal letter at the beginning of this discussion.

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:35 am

Content of our first refusal letter
The Decision
•Regulation 6 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 requires you to show that your sponsor is a "qualified person". The onus is on you and your sponsor to show that she is a jobseeker. You have provided no evidence that your sponsor is searching for work, or any evidence of her ability to do so. In your application form you state that you are searching for work, and the job adverts you have supplied are for you.
•I am therefore not satisfied that your sponsor is a jobseeker and therefore is not a "qualified person" as required under regulation 6 of the immigration (European Economic Area) regulations 2006
•I have also taken account of article 8 of the Human Rights Act. I consider that refusing this application is justified and proportionate in the exercise of the immigration control. I do not believe that refusing this application will interfere with family life, for the purposes of article 8 (1), as you can continue to enjoy that in India.

I therefore refuse your EEA family permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules

Post by **Jambo** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:25 am

As explained before Regulation 6 is not relevant if the EEA national has not been living in the UK.

If you follow the link EUsmileWEallsmile posted

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: ECO's use the modernised guidance in assessing whether an application is to be granted or not.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

you will see that the wording the ECO should use for refusal if insufficient evidence of qualified person says

Page 17 - [color=blue]Insufficient evidence that EEA national (who is in the UK) is a qualified person[/color] wrote:You have applied for a European Economic Area (EEA) family permit for admission to the UK as the family member of an EEA national living in the UK. Your application has not been successful because I am not satisfied that your family member is living in the UK according to the requirements of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006

The ECO refers to job adverb you have provided with the application. This is not required (was it the lawyer advice to do so?).

Complain to the visa manger and reapply. You will probably get a quicker response than appeal. EEA applications are simple and I suggest you make your application simple and concise.

Post by **Jambo** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:45 am

prince1475 wrote: As Eusmile saying that to complain to visa manager, how can I get visa manager email ID I search through BHC India website I didn't find any email ID there is one email ID for enquiry of visa there is one more of Consular but it says no visa enquiry please Eusmile if u or anyone have visa manager email ID than please post it.I want to complain to visa manager regarding delay in decision taking. Thanks

Where did you apply from? If you check the visa processing times, you can see that Mumbai and New Delhi times are longer compared to other offices.

From

Applying for a UK visa in India wrote: Customer Service - feedback and complaints

The UK Border Agency's Visa Services aim to offer a fair and professional service to all our customers. We welcome feedback which helps us to focus on where we need to improve.

If you have any comments, or are concerned about the standard of service you have received, please let us know. We investigate all complaints fully and will send you a reply within 20 working days.

If you wish to complain about the service you have received from the UK's Visa Services in India, please address your complaint to the Operations Manager and send your e-mail to the following depending on your area of application:

* Northern India, Eastern India and Nepal: visqry.newdelhi@fco.gov.uk
* Southern India, Sri Lanka: chennai.visaenquiry@fco.gov.uk
* Western India: mumbai.visaenquiries@fco.gov.uk

Alternatively, you may submit your complaint in writing to one of the following addresses:

> UK Border Agency Chennai, British Deputy High Commission, 20 Anderson Road, Chennai 600 006
> UK Border Agency New Delhi, British High Commission, Shantipath, Chanakyapuri, New Delhi 110 021
> UK Border Agency Mumbai, British Deputy High Commission, Naman Chambers, C32 G Block, Bandra Kurla Complex, Bandra East Mumbai 51

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:52 am

donald_f, I have sent you a private message.

How quickly do you want to be in the UK? In the next few weeks, or in three months from now?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:54 am

donald_f wrote:
I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules

The content of the first letter is as poor as the second. EEA applications are not made under the UK immigration rules.

I think you've had pretty detailed responses to each of the points in the letter and suggestions as to how to go about resolving this.

Re-apply (I know a third time), write a covering letter explaining how you qualify (reg 13 in the first instance), refer to the previous refusals and state that the ECO has not understood the regulations (this is a fact so don't be afraid to state that). At the same time, complain and demand priority for your application - enough time has been wasted already.

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:15 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:donald_f, I have sent you a private message.

How quickly do you want to be in the UK? In the next few weeks, or in three months from now?

I have replied to your private message.

I had plans to be there before September, but ECO decisions have put my plans off track.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:45 am

Donald: I have replied to your PM

donald_f wrote:I had plans to be there before September, but ECO decisions have put my plans off track.

If you move quickly, you should be able to travel pretty quickly.

You do not want to depend on an appeal. It will likely take 2 or 3 months.

I am also not convinced your lawyers are so useful. Use them if you want, but do not depend on them.

How long does it take you to submit a new application, especially the appointment?

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:56 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Donald: I have replied to your PM

donald_f wrote:I had plans to be there before September, but ECO decisions have put my plans off track.
If you move quickly, you should be able to travel pretty quickly.
I am still weighing my options. will ask my lawyers view on the third application and to complain about the wrong decision
You do not want to depend on an appeal. It will likely take 2 or 3 months.

I am also not convinced your lawyers are so useful. Use them if you want, but do not depend on them.
They will be preparing th appeal papers
How long does it take you to submit a new application, especially the appointment?
My previous 2 appointments were arranged in 3-4 days by my lawyer

shafiqissani · Post by **shafiqissani** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:12 pm

Due to the economic conditions some new regulations are put into place so as to reduce the burden on the budgetary deficits.

I haven't read much into it but I guess now you actually need a proof of employment before sponsoring your family. Something like a employment offer letter or a contract proving that you can sustain financially with your family in the UK.

Following is a link with the related information :

http://www.migrationexpert.co.uk/visa/u ... tion_rules

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Refusals for EEA family permit

Re: Refusals for EEA family permit

Re: Refusals for EEA family permit

Re: Refusals for EEA family permit

Modernised Guidance

new regulations