EEA2 or EEA4 or pack and run away

[londoner_abc_]

Hi,
I've got a dilemma now what to do, was hopping that after reading a bit it would be clear, but it is even worse.

My situation:
I'm a non-EEA citizen, my wife is from Poland (married since 2004).
We came to UK in 2007 and I got a 5 years residency card (which was a stamp on a4 paper).
I was working all that time.
My wife (eea citizen) registered as self-employed in 2007 and had a permanent job for a bit less then a year, before going on maternity leave.
She is still registered as self-employed, and in the mean time was on another maternity leave (two in summary). The income from self-employment for this year and last was very low - something about 2-3k.
But I have a well paid perm job, so we do not claim any benefits (except child-benefit).
So I would say she is a self-sufficient person - but I know this is not a definition used by UKBA.

So I was thinking to apply for a PR, but I'm not sure my wife have a 5 years exercise Treaty Right (well I think I do, but I'm not sure I can convince UKBA).
Next option is to apply just for another RC for next 5 years, but still right now there is almost no income from my wife and I don't want her to do that, as we have 3 small kids (the first born outside UK) to look after.

So my nightmare is that after I apply, the application will be rejected and I won't be able to work legally - means no money to pay for a mortgage etc.

Could someone with the experience advise whether I should worry about that and what the best way to tackle this.

Overall I found all that frustrating, that after more then 5 years of living legally in this country and not being a burden on a state, but providing to the state, we have to go through such a restrictive and lengthy (what 6 month?) process.

Thanks.
L.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

UKBA will require evidence of CSI for self-sufficient citizens and their family members.

[londoner_abc_]

Well i guess the questions are:
- for self-employed eea citizen, is there a minimum amount to earn?
- was there any cases rejected on a ground of not sufficient income from eea citizen.
We both pay our national insurance contribution.

Thanks

[Jambo]

No need to pack.

Self sufficient (based on your earnings) is one way of exercising treaty rights but in that case a private health insurance (CSI) is required for the EEA and non-EEA nationals. Without it, a PR Confirmation application is likely to get refused. However, you can apply for another 5 years Residence Card. You will need to have a valid insurance if applying as self sufficient (and keep it valid as long as the EEA national is self sufficient if you wish to apply for PR confirmation in future).

[Jambo]

Well i guess the questions are:
- for self-employed eea citizen, is there a minimum amount to earn?
- was there any cases rejected on a ground of not sufficient income from eea citizen.
We both pay our national insurance contribution.

Thanks

There is no minimum threshold but it needs to be enough to live without requiring benefits. From your description, you are living off your salary and not hers so as you said, she is exercising treaty rights as self-sufficient person.

You can always apply and see. You can search the forum to see if there are similar cases.

[londoner_abc_]

Hi Jambo, thanks for your thoughts.

What is the point of paying national contribution for a self employed person if she/he has a private insurance. Or if I'm self sufficient but do have a small business and pay 'the insurance' to the government body and not a private company, why is that case is not a Threaty rights exercise?

Thanks

[Jambo]

Self employed EEA national doesn't need CSI.
Self sufficient EEA national does need CSI.

It all depends on the EEA national. You can earn £500,000 a year and pay a lot of NI but if the EEA national is not working, insurance is required.

If the HO agree the EEA national is self employed, you should be able to obtain PR confirmation without an insurance. The question is whether she would be considered as such with a low income. As I said, you can try or search for similar cases.

[jotter]

Yeah, inline with the above my advice is don't put yourself through EEA4 because you'll get refused based on the information you've given us so far, but you should be fine for EEA2 as long as you arrange CSI before you apply and send the insurance policy with your application. Going forward if you want to apply for EEA4 in the future, for any periods that you cannot show evidence of regular income from self-employment, make sure you've got the CSI box ticked (either a private health insurance policy or EHIC). I've seen reports that the ECJ is trying to pull the UKBA up regarding their position on CSI (among other things), but I'm not holding my breath that the rules will change quickly.

[Obie]

She may qualify under the Self-Employed provision. Provided the Self-employment is genuine and effective, and the tax payments and NI contributions are up to date.

[jotter]

londoner, have you rung the European Applications contact number and explained your situation? They may well be able to counsel you about what your chances are of your wife's self-employed status being accepted.

Obie is right that there is a chance it could go your way, but I suspect it will hinge on the strength of your documents regarding self-employment. What can you show in terms of business bank statements during the period of maternity leave? If pressed, they should be able to give you a general idea over the phone of what they would consider convincing.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi,
I've got a dilemma now what to do, was hopping that after reading a bit it would be clear, but it is even worse.

My situation:
I'm a non-EEA citizen, my wife is from Poland (married since 2004).
We came to UK in 2007 and I got a 5 years residency card (which was a stamp on a4 paper).
I was working all that time.
My wife (eea citizen) registered as self-employed in 2007 and had a permanent job for a bit less then a year, before going on maternity leave.
She is still registered as self-employed, and in the mean time was on another maternity leave (two in summary). The income from self-employment for this year and last was very low - something about 2-3k.
But I have a well paid perm job, so we do not claim any benefits (except child-benefit).
So I would say she is a self-sufficient person - but I know this is not a definition used by UKBA.

So I was thinking to apply for a PR, but I'm not sure my wife have a 5 years exercise Treaty Right (well I think I do, but I'm not sure I can convince UKBA).
Next option is to apply just for another RC for next 5 years, but still right now there is almost no income from my wife and I don't want her to do that, as we have 3 small kids (the first born outside UK) to look after.

So my nightmare is that after I apply, the application will be rejected and I won't be able to work legally - means no money to pay for a mortgage etc.

Could someone with the experience advise whether I should worry about that and what the best way to tackle this.

Overall I found all that frustrating, that after more then 5 years of living legally in this country and not being a burden on a state, but providing to the state, we have to go through such a restrictive and lengthy (what 6 month?) process.

Thanks.
L.

In the absence of CSI your job is pretty much irrelevant as things stand in the UK at present.

However, your wife's self-employment status may not be. There is insufficient information posted to conclude.

[londoner_abc_]

Hi,
just wanted to say thank you for your posts.

Jotter: thanks for mentioning "European Applications contact number" i'll give them a call.

I'll try to update this topic once its clarifies.

Thank again to all involved.