EEA FP refused: Moscow

[Fabby]

Hello a.s.b.o. I will honestly advice you to seek legal help. those ECOs at the various embassies around the world are complete pain in the mule. Im in the same boat as you and I totally understand how you are feeling at the moment. I made an EEa family permit application for my mum to come and going us but it was refused because of the ECOs believe that she doesnt depend on me an my wife. We showed proof of dependency by way of financial remittance but it was still refused.

In our case, we decided to appeal their decision because reapplying at this time will somehow result in the same decision because the ECO will look at the reasons as to why the first application was refused. Our appeal is still on ongoing and I can understand its going to take a couple of months.

My humble advice would be:

appeal the decision by way of oral appeal. submit every evidence to show that your parent depends on you with the appeal. during the appeal process, the ECO will another look at your application and decide if to grant your parent the permit if not it go to appeal. On the day of the appeal you will have the chance of putting your case forward to the judge.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Abso, your mother has a lot more rights than Other Family Members, but you may find it interesting to read this new ECJ ruling: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 83:EN:HTML

Seperately, see the section "2.1.4. Dependent family members" on page 5 of http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/ec/com ... -313en.pdf

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi all

Some of you might follow our case - we applied for an EEA FP on behalf of my dependent parents who are outside of the UK now. I am exercising my treaty rights in the UK and this is certified by the UKBA RC.

We have been refused on the grounds that they are not dependent on me, thus the EEA national. I have approached a local NGO that does appeals and have been advised of the following, of which i am not sure.

a. The appeal form not to specify the name of the representative (solicitor, immigration advisor) as this could be done later.

b. the wording of the appeal grounds is only:

1. The Appellant appeals under s 84(1)(a)(d) and (e) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002.

2. The Appellant submits that she meets the requirements of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006. She is the parent of an Irish national. Her son resides in another EEA State (United Kingdom), as a worker and self-employed.

3. The Appellant submits that she is fully dependent financially on her EEA national son. Her son has provided the appellant with an accommodation to live in and further financial support from his savings, so that the appellant meets her essential living needs. She maintains that the decision to refuse her entry clearance breaches her rights under the Community Treaties in respect of residence in the United Kingdom, as a dependent direct relative in the ascending line.

4. A bundle of evidence and skeleton argument will be submitted prior to the appeal hearing.

please advise as soon as you can, there has been delay on the legal side, leaving me with 2 days to file the appeal online.

Thank you

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I'm not 100% sure what your question is? Could you clarify?

[a.s.b.o]

I'm not 100% sure what your question is? Could you clarify?

1. Whether it is indeed possible to appeal without specifying a legal rep details and then specifying one

2. Whether the 4 points of the appeal appear sufficient to address dependency issue at the hearing

3. Where can i specify that, in the event of a appeal successful, for UKBA to pick up appeal costs

[keffers]

1) Yes
2) Yes. But as part of the appeal further evidence can be submitted to assist the ECM review.
3) It is written somewhere on that fees will be refunded if the appeal is succesful. Can't remeber where but I have seen it.

NB Be aware that unless the online appeal has been modified in recent months you will need the correct type of HO reference number otherwise you will not be able to progress through the whole appeal form - it will then have to be submitted via fax with credit card details for manual payment processing.

[a.s.b.o]

In our case, we decided to appeal their decision because reapplying at this time will somehow result in the same decision because the ECO will look at the reasons as to why the first application was refused. Our appeal is still on ongoing and I can understand its going to take a couple of months.

I need an advise -

1. Re-apply or
2. Appeal

I share concerns with the quoted author that it may be rubberstamp refused, despite that now we might submit a very clear and conscise application.

What would be the general take on re-applying and expectations of getting a refusal which, despite evidence, will be a carbon copy? Thanks

[sum1]

How much time are you willing to put into this? Reapply and you loose the time those applications take at your embassy if refused again (that embassy may have a general negative view on dependancy). Appeal, expect the ECM to uphold the original decision and probably wait for months until the tribunal reaches a decision.

[a.s.b.o]

How much time are you willing to put into this? Reapply and you loose the time those applications take at your embassy if refused again (that embassy may have a general negative view on dependancy). Appeal, expect the ECM to uphold the original decision and probably wait for months until the tribunal reaches a decision.

clearly, a new application will take less time than an appeal. Plus, it is free. However, I agree that embassy may take a negative view on dependency. This is a trade-off which I am now facing. I agree with your point that tribunal is the near only place to have an impartial judgement.

Would this view be supported by other gurus?

I need to file the appeal online but only have the VAF / Post reference. Will this suffice to submit it online (some contributors indicated that a Home Office reference is needed)?!

As always, thanks

[keffers]

Give it a test and see how far you get. The reference number is required about half-way through the process, so you can't submit the form until you get to the end.

You'll soon find out if it's not the right reference (as I did).

[a.s.b.o]

Thanks kef


On the other subject, I need a bit of help in terms of references to the relevant legislation -

1. Irrelevance of the UK immigration regulations when it comes to the EEA applications

2. Irrelevance of UK-based maintenance requirements in EEA applications

3. Dependency: what legislation better stipulates duration, meaning and definition of whole/main (the cornerston of this application) dependency

Please take a snap on at the ones that you do know. Immensely thanks

[sum1]

The EEA regulations are an entirely different and self-contained law. Either one applies or the other. There is no mix-and-match. A non-Britsh (and non-Irish, I believe) national can only make use of the UK immigration rules when they have obtained permanent residency and they are considered as 'settled' persons.

[a.s.b.o]

The EEA regulations are an entirely different and self-contained law. Either one applies or the other. There is no mix-and-match. A non-Britsh (and non-Irish, I believe) national can only make use of the UK immigration rules when they have obtained permanent residency and they are considered as 'settled' persons.

Its fine! This non-mix and match approach I want to deliver to the psyche of the ECO. Is there a EU legislation to point to an ECO?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You might find the UKBA document Reconsidering decisions in European Applications interesting, especially if you wish the ECM to reconsider.

[keffers]

Wholly or mainly dependant is not an EE regs requirement - its an Immigration Rule requirement. The requirement under EEA regs is financially dependent for essential needs.

see ECJ rulings Jia and also Lebon

Also for eg see http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... geria.html

para 41 and 42

[a.s.b.o]

Wholly or mainly dependant is not an EE regs requirement - its an Immigration Rule requirement. The requirement under EEA regs is financially dependent for essential needs.

see ECJ rulings Jia and also Lebon

Also for eg see http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... geria.html

para 41 and 42

thanks Kef

I believe we have a strong case - my parents are fully dependent on me as they do not have any other income apart from my contribution in a variety of forms.

I see that the judgement made a number of errors -

1. applying wholly/mainly weighting, which as you point out, should not be applied in judgment of our dependence case

2. failure to satisfy current UKBA requirements which accepts that dependence can be voluntary


in the meanwhile, I have filed appeals online but did not pay for them yet. i am inclined to submit them but still flirt with the re-submittion idea....

[a.s.b.o]

You might find the UKBA document Reconsidering decisions in European Applications interesting, especially if you wish the ECM to reconsider.

Directive

thanks forthe link. I have written to the ECM last night quoting this document and asking to reviw the case. What annoys me most are the silly typo, calc mistakes that shows the ECO did not give a toss of a consideration and they continue to make a straight face! This is farcical!

Anyway, they came back to me stating that the ECM has reviewed my application and decision stands. The refusal does not contain ECM endorsement. No further communication with dates, names etc has been done either. Is there a paperwork that, in the spirit of this document, would been to be demonstrated to the applicant / EEA national to satisfy the re-consideration clause!?

thank you

PS We went for an appeal - paying tomorrow and faxing it tomorrow too

[keffers]

When the Moscow post receives notification of the appeal from the UK, the ECM will have to make a written assessment and address the concerns you raise.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /apl/apl7/

[a.s.b.o]

When the Moscow post receives notification of the appeal from the UK, the ECM will have to make a written assessment and address the concerns you raise.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /apl/apl7/

Thank you Keffers

I am concerned with the quality of representation - our advisor argues that we should not submit any further information. She states that (a) they were given enough evidence of support and (b) we do not want to open our plans before the appeal. I see the logic but am not sure whether the ECM review part in this way will essentially be of no use. She puts all emnphasis on the oral hearing.

please share your thoughts on this. Many thanks as always

[keffers]

From a 'tactical' point of view I would agree with your advisor - see what the ECM review proper states without allowing the ECM trying to tailor it to the circumstances. Then deal your trump card from the bottom of the deck.

Frustrating, but its a game of patience with some people.

[a.s.b.o]

gents


it will be nearly two weeks since application. No contact with me has been made on any issues. Neither has the NGO that helped me to lodge an appeal.

What is the process and what can i/should i to expect. thank you, i am slightly worried

[keffers]

In all likelyhood the appeal will not even be on the system.

The telephone number on the appeal form will take you through to a few choices- one of which will be about applications that are being processed.

Last time I rang it had about a 20 working days backlog. As long as it was received in time there is not a problem.

Check it and see.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you do not hear back after a month, you might consider also reapplying.

[a.s.b.o]

If you do not hear back after a month, you might consider also reapplying.

show me the money -) they drew money already, but not scratching their arses to process the documents-)

[a.s.b.o]

waiting game continues....still no communication. Do they reply emails at all?

The are kinda even more "efficient" than UKBA -)