EEA4 - Comprehensive Sickness Insurance and PhD Stipend

[alaskangirl]

Hello Everyone,
I am about to apply for EEA4 PR at the end of September and to do so I am gathering the paperwork to cover 5yrs period from Sept 2009 up until now.
Here is a short story:
I am Russian, my husband is Polish, we have been residing in the UK since May 2006. My current 5-yrs Residence Documentation is expiring on 2nd October 2012.
My husband was employed until August 2009 and in September 2009 he started a 3-yrs PhD course. He is being paid a quarterly stipend plus he has had a part-time job as an librarian and also a tutor/ demonstrator since September 2011.
I have been employed all the time for the last 5yrs, my current job is giving us good financial support.
When I started to complete the EEA4 application form, I realized that my husband never had the so-called Comprehensive Sickness Insurance which appears to be vital for my application. How does one know he must have one? We never thought he would need one as we were both registered under NHS scheme, thinking this was enough?
He is not applying for his PR as this is not mandatory, this is only me applying for my PR.

My questions are:

1. As my husband is receiving quartely stipend of over £3K which is plenty, is he still required to provide a proof of CSI? We have letters comfirming the payments schedule - is this going to be sufficient?

2. As he has been employed part-time since September 2011, would he still need to present a CSI cover to HO?

3. Can we provide our bank statements, incl. savings accounts to HO in order to prove that we have got enough funds to support ourselves in case of illness, etc?

4. If we are still required to show a proof of CSI, can we buy it now, a week before applying? Would that look dodgy? We have never had to claim anything, no sicknesses in the past, so even if we do purchase the insurance, we might as well just keep it.

I would grately appreciate some help, please share your advice with me.

Thank you!

[Gyfrinachgar]

Bursaries/stipends are tax exempt and not formally income. More importantly, the official status is student - which requires CSI. However, at the same time one does receive a regular payment (without P60s, though) - so it is not an easy question to answer. We had that question before (see here and here for example), but I am not aware of any definite answer found.

[alaskangirl]

Bursaries/stipends are tax exempt and not formally income. More importantly, the official status is student - which requires CSI. However, at the same time one does receive a regular payment (without P60s, though) - so it is not an easy question to answer. We had that question before (see here and here for example), but I am not aware of any definite answer found.

Dear Gyfrinachgar,
Thanks a lot for getting back to me. Yes, the whole thing is indeed very confusing.
Buying the CSI policy now right before applying - how would that look in the eyes of HO? I only we knew 3 years ago, we would of course bought it back then...

[Gyfrinachgar]

No, that wouldn't do anything. You need to prove that you had CSI while you were a student, and CSI doesn't work retrospectively.

[alaskangirl]

No, that wouldn't do anything. You need to prove that you had CSI while you were a student.

Surely, we cannot prove this... What do we do then?

[Gyfrinachgar]

I would go for the employment route: declare your status as worker. Provide sufficient evidence of regular payment (the better that part looks, the better your chances). Do NOT mention "studies" - under job description use "Postgraduate Researcher" instead of "PhD student" - same thing, different slant.

It would be great and much appreciated if you could post your results here afterwards - regardless of the outcome. Then we could finally answer that question.

[alaskangirl]

I would go for the employment route: declare your status as worker. Provide sufficient evidence of regular payment (the better that part looks, the better your chances). Do NOT mention "studies" - under job description use "Postgraduate Researcher" instead of "PhD student" - same thing, different slant.

It would be great and much appreciated if you could post your results here afterwards - regardless of the outcome. Then we could finally answer that question.

Thanks again, but he was not employed between Sept 2009 and Sept 2011, no CSI, nothing to prove the worker status.
I was positive I had all the necessary paperwork and now this...
All I have for the last 3 years is his letters from the universities confirming his PhD status and stipend.

I am so puzzled, what are the options?

[Gyfrinachgar]

Contact the university and ask them for a letter confirming status as Postgraduate Researcher, who was employed by xyz university for the purpose of researching xyz and received regular payments through project funding xyz. You could call them on telephone beforehand and discuss the wording, most university HR people understand the subtleties of these things and are very helpful. However, I believe the missing tax payments could jeopardise this approach, that is why I have always been sceptical about it.

Short of that your only alternative is to set the start of the qualifying period to the start of emplyoment, i.e. wait.

[alaskangirl]

Contact the university and ask them for a letter confirming status as Postgraduate Researcher, who was employed by xyz university for the purpose of researching xyz and received regular payments through project funding xyz. You could call them on telephone beforehand and discuss the wording, most university HR people understand the subtleties of these things and are very helpful. However, I believe the missing tax payments could jeopardise this approach, that is why I have always been sceptical about it.

Short of that your only alternative is to set the start of the qualifying period to the start of emplyoment, i.e. wait.

Which means wait for another 4 years? Oh no... Is it not easier to apply for another EEA2? Is this a realistic option?

[Gyfrinachgar]

Residence documentation is usually issued for five years (obviously excluding PR...), and as far as I know there is no rule against applying for a new one when the old expires.

P.S.: I just read in an older thread that someone applied with EEA4, but didn't meet all criteria, so HO simply issued a simple residence (EEA2) again instead of a permanent one (EEA4), so there seems to be precedence.

[alaskangirl]

Residence documentation is usually issued for five years (obviously excluding PR...), and as far as I know there is no rule against applying for a new one when the old expires.

P.S.: I just read in an older thread that someone applied with EEA4, but didn't meet all criteria, so HO simply issued a simple residence (EEA2) again instead of a permanent one (EEA4), so there seems to be precedence.

You are right, I have come across this post, too.

What about work-based permit? Is there an option of swapping from EEA2 to that? Can my employer help or EEA2/4 is the only way?

[Gyfrinachgar]

Sorry, I don't know enough about work permits, another member can probably advise better.

[alaskangirl]

Sorry, I don't know enough about work permits, another member can probably advise better.

That's okay, you have helped a lot already.

Does anyone else who is the best solution to the problem? I am still thinking of purchasing a CSI and attaching a cover letter explaining that we truly did not know my husband needed one, and if we knew we would bought it 3 years ago. Would that help at all?

[Gyfrinachgar]

I am still thinking of purchasing a CSI and attaching a cover letter explaining that we truly did not know my husband needed one, and if we knew we would bought it 3 years ago. Would that help at all?

I seriously doubt it - in the eyes of the HO every student without CSI does(did) not exercise EU Treaty rights. That is in all forms, from EEA to AN route. I would be very pleasantly surprised indeed to learn otherwise.

[alaskangirl]

I am still thinking of purchasing a CSI and attaching a cover letter explaining that we truly did not know my husband needed one, and if we knew we would bought it 3 years ago. Would that help at all?

I seriously doubt it - in the eyes of the HO every student without CSI does(did) not exercise EU Treaty rights. That is in all forms, from EEA to AN route. I would be very pleasantly surprised indeed to learn otherwise.

Does this mean that because he did not have the CSI btw Sept 09 and Sept 11 while being a student I lost my status in the UK and was staying here illegally??

[Gyfrinachgar]

Does this mean that because he did not have the CSI btw Sept 09 and Sept 11 while being a student I lost my status in the UK and was staying here illegally??

No, as long as the residence card is valid you are not here illegally.
Since he is a worker now, it should not be a major problem to extend residence, either. The problem I see at the moment is concerning permanent residency (section 7 of EEA4).

[alaskangirl]

Does this mean that because he did not have the CSI btw Sept 09 and Sept 11 while being a student I lost my status in the UK and was staying here illegally??

No, as long as the residence card is valid you are not here illegally.
Since he is a worker now, it should not be a major problem to extend residence, either. The problem I see at the moment is concerning permanent residency (section 7 of EEA4).

Good to hear I haven't lost it! So my only option is another EEA2? Sorry for all the questions...

[Gyfrinachgar]

You could declare your husband's bursary studentship as employment (see above) and try to go for EEA4 - since they are free of charge I think it is worth a shot. That would have the added bonus of finally knowing the validity of that approach.

HO might (a) approve your EEA4 application, or (b) reject it outright, or (c) downgrade it to an EEA2 application. In case of (b) you can still go for an extension of non-permanent residency or other routes.

If you do that keep us updated - pretty please with sugar on top. I have been curious about that for years.

[alaskangirl]

Residence documentation is usually issued for five years (obviously excluding PR...), and as far as I know there is no rule against applying for a new one when the old expires.

P.S.: I just read in an older thread that someone applied with EEA4, but didn't meet all criteria, so HO simply issued a simple residence (EEA2) again instead of a permanent one (EEA4), so there seems to be precedence.

Just had a look at the EEA2 form - Evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance for your EEA national family member is also required!!
So I suppose I won't get that either...

[Gyfrinachgar]

How did you get your first EEA2, do you still have a copy of the application form?

[alaskangirl]

How did you get your first EEA2, do you still have a copy?

A copy of the EEA2 form? No, dont think so. I got in 2007, we submitted a joint application, he got his blue Residence Certificate and I got my 5yrs Residence Documentation.
He was a worker back then, so I didn't have to provide any CSI.

[alaskangirl]

And also, if according to the law I do not even have to apply for the stamp in my passport to confirm my right to stay, how do I pass the UK border? I have to travel in December - a business trip that I cannot miss...
Thanks!

[Gyfrinachgar]

I thought that you can apply under EEA2 if an EEA family member is currently exercising EU Treaty rights in the UK (not necessarily for 5 years, meaning the family member does not need PR). Your husband does that. This would also explain why you initially have been able to successfully apply under this scheme after just a single year stay in the UK. Otherwise, this would have been impossible. I may be wrong, and things may have changed since 2007, so I will have to investigate that.

[alaskangirl]

I thought that you can apply under EEA2 if an EEA family member is currently exercising EU Treaty rights in the UK (not necessarily for 5 years, meaning the family member does not need PR). Your husband does that. This would also explain why you initially have been able to successfully apply under this scheme after just a single year stay in the UK. Otherwise, this would have been impossible. I may be wrong, and things may have changed since 2007, so I will have to investigate that.

Thank you so much Gyfrinachgar!! I have bumped into this thread and it looks like one can re-submit the application with a freshly purchased CSI and be successful!.. Well, this was in 2009 though, so I am investigating further, too...

[alaskangirl]

I thought that you can apply under EEA2 if an EEA family member is currently exercising EU Treaty rights in the UK (not necessarily for 5 years, meaning the family member does not need PR). Your husband does that. This would also explain why you initially have been able to successfully apply under this scheme after just a single year stay in the UK. Otherwise, this would have been impossible. I may be wrong, and things may have changed since 2007, so I will have to investigate that.

Thank you so much Gyfrinachgar!! I have bumped into this thread and it looks like one can re-submit the application with a freshly purchased CSI and be successful!.. Well, this was in 2009 though, so I am investigating further, too...

I guess I forgot to post the link to the thread! http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=20