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Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

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sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:00 pm

Bannoi wrote:
sp84 wrote:The plan for us is to move back to Belfast, Northern Ireland. That is where I am from. Long term though, who knows. Depends on work etc I would like to stay in Ireland for at least 3 years, that way my wife can get herself an Irish passport - which as long as things don't change with the Irish in the UK, we would be free of immigration restrictions/dealings with the Home Office.
Hi sp84 That's exactly what I'm intending to do I went to live in Belfast with my grandparents when I was 15 served my time in the Ravenhill Road then worked for a company in Dundonald and later moved to Carrickfergus.

Most likely after my wife obtains her Irish Citizenship we will move to the Republic though that would depend on the circumstances at the time.

If my relations in Northern Ireland knew I had renounced my British Citizenship they would be lets say more than displeased.

I suppose growing up in England I don't hold their views and never did.

I am fortunate in that being retired I can live almost anywhere the only priority being a decent school for my boy's.

I'm looking for a decent 3 bedroom house to rent in Northern Ireland at the moment though I will wait until my wife arrives before committing to anything.
Good morning Bannoi (at least it is morning here)!

I am the same as you - Belfast first (I am from there), but long term, if I need to due to work, I may have to move to England. Teaching in Northern Ireland is tough at the minute due to budget cuts. However in England they are crying out for teachers. So we shall see.

In terms of your family not been happy about giving up your British Citizenship - In terms of the bigger picture, if it helps you to get where you want, then it shouldn't really matter. A solicitor that I spoke to (who is from the British/Protestant/Unionist side of the community in Northern Ireland) - told me 2 things. 1) If he were in my shoes, he would have renounced his British Citizenship a long time ago to make use of the EU rules ... 2) Bottom line, you use whatever passport is best for the family. Personally, I am from the other side of the community, but I would not be bothered if the roles were reversed and I had to give up my Irish citizenship in order to do this. It is just a label/piece of paper at the end of the day. Fingers crossed that this time next year, we are all where we want to be!

...

Morning to you too Lisa!

That's nice that you at least had the option of a few places to go. I'm sure you made the right decision with England, seeing as you said your family are moving there. That will give you a nice base to build from! Just on the USA not being on the list on the tls website - You were right, I didn't see it there either. Just got me thinking though - apparently US citizens are non-visa nationals, so technically they can enter as the spouse of an EU citizen without the need for the permit. This is not advised though, as it makes it harder to open bank accounts, get a National Insurance number etc. I may be wayyyyy off on this one too, but it is something that I will have to speak to a solicitor about. That doesn't mean US citizens cannot get the permit, just that it is not legally needed (I think haha).

PS - Just keeping an eye on the news. Rumours of the referendum happening on June 23rd 2016. Bannoi and I shoulddddd hopefully have our RN forms back and have applied for the EEA permit by then, if our forms are completed by the end of the 6 months, so fingers crossed!

Have a nice weekend folks!

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:54 pm

Hey everyone,

Feeling a little down today regarding the EU referendum news. Although nothing has been agreed upon or changed- it is still disheartening seeing some of the proposed restrictions. I am not yet sure how it would affect those taking the route we are (renunciation then family permit), but I am sure it will have some sort of effect on it.

Just curious if anyone has any news on their own progress. I am terrified that my RN won't be back in time before changes come into effect :(

Bannoi
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by Bannoi » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:15 am

Hi sp84

Feeling a bit down myself at the moment especially after reading the Draft declaration of the European Commission on issues related to the abuse of the right of free movement of persons.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/europ ... ement_pdf/

I am really unsure how all this is going to turn out or more to the point how long it would take for it to be implemented.

I have less than six weeks to go before my six months are up I feel I'm living on a knife-edge at the moment, even then there is no absolute guarantee the home Office will process it within six months.

I was wondering whether a statutory declaration renouncing my citizenship would be good enough.

I personally feel it should be but then I am no lawyer.

It would be great if everything goes the way we want and we could meet up in Northern Ireland after for a beer and laugh at all this.

Keep your chin up and hope for the best if it doesn't work out it just means we'll have to think of another way to beat the b******s Fág an Bealach

tigerram
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by tigerram » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:58 pm

Hi All,

Our eea fp application was accepted the second time. I clarified amendments thanks to European directives and information from some board members really helped. Legally they didn't have a leg to stand on. They had treated me as British and what they had said about it being a marriage of convenience could only be determined by the Home Secretary - they had gone beyond their remit. I would celebrate but for Brussels' new proposals...

My wife attended the cfo but with no ROM - we forgot to register the marriage in Hong Kong! They will issue her with the certificate and sticker if we can just provide the receipt. That looks like taking three to four weeks, as opposed to two to three months. Normally, this would be ok.

But the draft declaration has been made. Juncker has said that he wants to press on with things regardless of what the uk does. It's a big worry; the clock is clearly ticking.

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:20 pm

Bannoi wrote:Hi sp84

Feeling a bit down myself at the moment especially after reading the Draft declaration of the European Commission on issues related to the abuse of the right of free movement of persons.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/europ ... ement_pdf/

I am really unsure how all this is going to turn out or more to the point how long it would take for it to be implemented.

I have less than six weeks to go before my six months are up I feel I'm living on a knife-edge at the moment, even then there is no absolute guarantee the home Office will process it within six months.

I was wondering whether a statutory declaration renouncing my citizenship would be good enough.

I personally feel it should be but then I am no lawyer.

It would be great if everything goes the way we want and we could meet up in Northern Ireland after for a beer and laugh at all this.

Keep your chin up and hope for the best if it doesn't work out it just means we'll have to think of another way to beat the b******s Fág an Bealach
Thanks for the laugh this morning Bannoi,

I am the same as you. Like everyone in our situation, my wife and I have all of our eggs in this basket. If things don't come through, I really have no idea what we will do. I am terrified about what is to come and genuinely feel sick, to the point that my hands are shaking as I type this. I hope you get your RN back soon and get things sorted. Sadly, I am further out on getting mine. I am into my 3rd month of waiting now - it will be May for me if it takes the entire 6 months. I literally have no finger nails left after yesterday :( feeling very deflated.

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:23 pm

tigerram wrote:Hi All,

Our eea fp application was accepted the second time. I clarified amendments thanks to European directives and information from some board members really helped. Legally they didn't have a leg to stand on. They had treated me as British and what they had said about it being a marriage of convenience could only be determined by the Home Secretary - they had gone beyond their remit. I would celebrate but for Brussels' new proposals...

My wife attended the cfo but with no ROM - we forgot to register the marriage in Hong Kong! They will issue her with the certificate and sticker if we can just provide the receipt. That looks like taking three to four weeks, as opposed to two to three months. Normally, this would be ok.

But the draft declaration has been made. Juncker has said that he wants to press on with things regardless of what the uk does. It's a big worry; the clock is clearly ticking.
Hey tigerram,

Congrats on getting the family permit sorted. Glad it all went OK. Can you just expand a little on what you are saying, about why you aren't celebrating? Im not sure who Juncker is? and what you mean by pressing on with things regardless of what the UK does?

If you are worried about the 3-4 weeks that you have to wait on the marriage receipt, does that mean that I am pretty much screwed? Seeing as I am still waiting on my RN coming back.

Cheers

noajthan
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by noajthan » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:27 pm

Bannoi wrote:Hi sp84

Feeling a bit down myself at the moment especially after reading the Draft declaration of the European Commission on issues related to the abuse of the right of free movement of persons.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/europ ... ement_pdf/

I am really unsure how all this is going to turn out or more to the point how long it would take for it to be implemented.

...
Nothing will happen overnight.

This analysis may reassure:
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.be/2016/0 ... al-eu.html
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:40 pm

noajthan wrote:
Bannoi wrote:Hi sp84

Feeling a bit down myself at the moment especially after reading the Draft declaration of the European Commission on issues related to the abuse of the right of free movement of persons.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/europ ... ement_pdf/

I am really unsure how all this is going to turn out or more to the point how long it would take for it to be implemented.

...
Nothing will happen overnight.

This analysis may reassure:
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.be/2016/0 ... al-eu.html
Thanks noajthan,

I was speaking to Steve (the blog writer of that) yesterday via twitter - he pointed out that the draft specifically says that the free movement changes will come into effect after the referendum - though this may change (which I hope not)

If they have the referendum on June 23rd, as is rumoured - with regards to my own situation, I will be cutting it close. I received confirmation of my renunciation application on Dec 1st. So if it takes 6 months (as I expect it too), I should have my form back by the end of May. I hope that is enough for me to make it back. I would rather cut it close, than cut it late.

tigerram
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by tigerram » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:42 pm

Hey Sp84,

I do supply teaching in England. I get plenty of work. It's a good route into ft if that's what you want. But teaching in England ft is generally no picnic! Ask me about it sometime if you want.

tigerram
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by tigerram » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:50 pm

sp84 wrote:
tigerram wrote:Hi All,

Our eea fp application was accepted the second time. I clarified amendments thanks to European directives and information from some board members really helped. Legally they didn't have a leg to stand on. They had treated me as British and what they had said about it being a marriage of convenience could only be determined by the Home Secretary - they had gone beyond their remit. I would celebrate but for Brussels' new proposals...

My wife attended the cfo but with no ROM - we forgot to register the marriage in Hong Kong! They will issue her with the certificate and sticker if we can just provide the receipt. That looks like taking three to four weeks, as opposed to two to three months. Normally, this would be ok.

But the draft declaration has been made. Juncker has said that he wants to press on with things regardless of what the uk does. It's a big worry; the clock is clearly ticking.
Hey tigerram,

Congrats on getting the family permit sorted. Glad it all went OK. Can you just expand a little on what you are saying, about why you aren't celebrating? Im not sure who Juncker is? and what you mean by pressing on with things regardless of what the UK does?

If you are worried about the 3-4 weeks that you have to wait on the marriage receipt, does that mean that I am pretty much screwed? Seeing as I am still waiting on my RN coming back.

Cheers

After being through it all so far, I just don't trust anyone in authority involved.

Common sense strongly suggests that the referendum will be held between September and November because of June elections in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and London.

Common sense also says that Europe won't give any concession to the uk before it has to - after the referendum.

However, I've lost faith in common sense. My wife needs a document to get a sticker that means nothing in international law. Yet she cannot travel to get the document for the sticker unless she produces the very same sticker to allow her to travel to get the document.

Forget common sense. It's all about cash. I don't know if you are in trouble or not.

RJF1979
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by RJF1979 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:12 am

Hi everyone I hope all is well with you all..

What is happening with David Cameron eu deal,

I've seen on the news and the papers the PM wants the referendum on the 23rd of June

I hope not because I'm waiting on my RN..

SP84 I'm the same as you I'm on my 3rd month on the 20th of Feb

What is the jist on free moment and the eea family as I was away for a few days & lost of what's happening

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:25 pm

RJF1979 wrote:Hi everyone I hope all is well with you all..

What is happening with David Cameron eu deal,

I've seen on the news and the papers the PM wants the referendum on the 23rd of June

I hope not because I'm waiting on my RN..

SP84 I'm the same as you I'm on my 3rd month on the 20th of Feb

What is the jist on free moment and the eea family as I was away for a few days & lost of what's happening
Hey RJF1979,

Good to hear from you. I am not an expert by any means, so this is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong anyone) - but the next 2 weeks will tell us a whole lot about what is to come between now and June. The rumours of a June 23rd referendum have been around since November 2015 - thats why I got my RN in as fast as I could, as soon as I found out about that. The June date all hinges on the other EU members agreeing to the draft proposal that was drawn up this week. If they all agree, then Cameron can call for the referendum to take place in June. If they do not all agree - then the next EU council meeting is in March - and the next feasible time for the referendum will be September 2016.

In terms of the draft itself (in relation to free movement) - they are targeting the Surinder Singh route to my understanding. I don't think to get rid of it completely, but to make it more difficult for people to use (like greater restrictions, having to provide more evidence etc) - I think!! ... As a by product of that, I think people like us (renouncing citizenship to use the family permit) - get caught into the trap. There is a line in the draft basically saying that if you are married to a non-eu citizen, then the individual country's own immigration laws will apply (so I think that means the 18k threshold would apply to us).

I spoke to a few people on twitter the other day after the draft - a lecturer on EU law explained to me that the draft is just that - a draft ... it isn't a proposal, just a promise of proposals. He also pointed out that the draft specifically states that the changes proposed would come in after the referendum takes place (this is what I am placing all of my hopes on). If the referendum takes place in June like they want, and nothing changes with regards to laws etc between now and then ... Then you and I should still stand a shot of everything working out, all be it, by the skin of our teeth.

Like I said, I may be way off on this - the technical jargon is difficult to understand what it actually means in practice. I am nervous of course, but we will have to sit tight for now sadly :(

magicmus
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by magicmus » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:36 pm

Hi all. My irish passport has finally arrived and I am now waiting on my irish passport card so that i can send this away with RN.
Can I ask, will photocopies of my visa's for entry to turkey from my british passport be ok for the eea family permit application or do I need to have the photocopies witnessed?! Also will i recieve my british passport back with the RN certificate.

Getting worried now that this will all be for nothing. Going by recent timescales I'll be lucky to get my RN by september!

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:37 pm

magicmus wrote:Hi all. My irish passport has finally arrived and I am now waiting on my irish passport card so that i can send this away with RN.
Can I ask, will photocopies of my visa's for entry to turkey from my british passport be ok for the eea family permit application or do I need to have the photocopies witnessed?! Also will i recieve my british passport back with the RN certificate.

Getting worried now that this will all be for nothing. Going by recent timescales I'll be lucky to get my RN by september!
Hey magicmus,

You are doing the same as me - that is sending your Irish Passport card off with your application. In terms of your visa photocopies from your British passport and the EEA family permit, personally I am not sure (mainly because I am not at that stage yet). I am just curious why you would need your British passport at all to apply for the family permit though? (is it because you are applying from Turkey?) ... You are applying for it, using your Irish passport.

In terms of getting your British passport back - hopefully Lisa or tigeramm can jump in here and let us know - they got their RN forms back recently. On the cover letter, I asked could I get it back (sentiment just wanting to keep my travel stamps etc) - but I wouldn't be surprised if I never seen it again.

magicmus
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by magicmus » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:46 pm

Hi sp84. I thought I would need to include the visas iv had on my British passport for proof of genuine relationship?

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:56 pm

magicmus wrote:Hi sp84. I thought I would need to include the visas iv had on my British passport for proof of genuine relationship?
Aaahhh OK, now I get you! I'm not sure to be honest - I planned on using wedding photos, general photos and as I am living with my wife already overseas - I have proof of shared address, joint bank account etc

There may be a way to get the photocopies of the stamps certified before you post it off with your RN? Maybe at the embassy/consulate ? I know that someone on here got a photocopy of their Irish passport certified a year or so ago at the embassy (not sure whether at the Irish or British) before they sent in their RN form - They sent the certified copy with their RN because they needed the Irish passport to travel.

It may be something you can ask the embassy about.

magicmus
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by magicmus » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:06 pm

I will be able to send wedding cert, photos joint bank account and I'm on the Turkish rental agreement aswel so perhaps visa stamps won't be needed I also held residency for a year which I can include also.

Hoping nothing changes between now and September . Going by current timescales I reckon it will be September before rn is back seeing as haven't sent it yet. Hoping Irish passport card won't take too long to arrive.

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:21 pm

magicmus wrote:I will be able to send wedding cert, photos joint bank account and I'm on the Turkish rental agreement aswel so perhaps visa stamps won't be needed I also held residency for a year which I can include also.

Hoping nothing changes between now and September . Going by current timescales I reckon it will be September before rn is back seeing as haven't sent it yet. Hoping Irish passport card won't take too long to arrive.
Aahh OK, now it makes sense. When it comes my time to apply for the family permit I was just going to include all of those things you mentioned. Surely the year residency will count rather than your stamps (though that is me just guessing) - I'm in the US so if I need proof of being here legally I have my Green Card -(but I don't think I need that - seeing as it is my wife that actually applies for the permit and not me).

My Irish passport only took about a week to get to me - and I am in California! Really surprised me how fast they got it to me. I sent my RN in the next day. Timescales for getting the RN back appear to be between 4.5 - 6 months ... this time last year the wait was only 3, thats why I was under no rush to get it sent ... now I have no finger nails left haha

chaoclive
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by chaoclive » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:06 pm

magicmus wrote:I will be able to send wedding cert, photos joint bank account and I'm on the Turkish rental agreement aswel so perhaps visa stamps won't be needed I also held residency for a year which I can include also.

Hoping nothing changes between now and September . Going by current timescales I reckon it will be September before rn is back seeing as haven't sent it yet. Hoping Irish passport card won't take too long to arrive.
At least take a photocopy of the passport and the visa stamps. I think it's good to keep these just in case.

I was the one that sent a certified copy of my Irish passport for the RN. If you have the passport card now that makes things easier. Still send a copy of the actual passport photo page though - that way they can't refuse the passport card (they may not be familiar with it yet).

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:21 pm

chaoclive wrote:
magicmus wrote:I will be able to send wedding cert, photos joint bank account and I'm on the Turkish rental agreement aswel so perhaps visa stamps won't be needed I also held residency for a year which I can include also.

Hoping nothing changes between now and September . Going by current timescales I reckon it will be September before rn is back seeing as haven't sent it yet. Hoping Irish passport card won't take too long to arrive.
At least take a photocopy of the passport and the visa stamps. I think it's good to keep these just in case.

I was the one that sent a certified copy of my Irish passport for the RN. If you have the passport card now that makes things easier. Still send a copy of the actual passport photo page though - that way they can't refuse the passport card (they may not be familiar with it yet).

Hey chaoclive!

Good to hear from you! (I sent you a PM last week, not sure if you got it or not)? I didn't want to mention you by name without having permission. Aahh I never even thought of sending a copy of my passport picture page - I made a point of saying in my cover letter though that the Irish passport card can only be obtained by current holders of an Irish Passport. I also included the section from the Irish Department of Justice - with the section highlighted showing that even though I was born in Northern Ireland, I am entitled to Irish citizenship. In theory, I thought you had 6 months after renunciation to take up another citizenship anyway?

chaoclive
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by chaoclive » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:31 pm

sp84 wrote: Hey chaoclive!

Good to hear from you! (I sent you a PM last week, not sure if you got it or not)? I didn't want to mention you by name without having permission. Aahh I never even thought of sending a copy of my passport picture page - I made a point of saying in my cover letter though that the Irish passport card can only be obtained by current holders of an Irish Passport. I also included the section from the Irish Department of Justice - with the section highlighted showing that even though I was born in Northern Ireland, I am entitled to Irish citizenship. In theory, I thought you had 6 months after renunciation to take up another citizenship anyway?
Hi there
Sorry, I didn't notice your PM! What's up? Don't worry about mentioning me...i'm happy to help if i can.

i'm sure they won't be stupid enough not to recognize the passport card, but they are relatively new so adding a little extra wouldn't be a problem. you do have up to 6 months after renunciation but in our cases it's best to provide everything up front.

(can't be bothered with caps tonight)

Bannoi
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by Bannoi » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:39 am

Hi magicmus

If its any help my Irish passport card only took 4 days applied on a Tuesday and it arrived in England on Friday.

That was about a month ago.

Shame the UK Home Office isn't as efficient but then considering who Dozy Dave put in charge of it it's hardly surprising.

RJF1979
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by RJF1979 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:39 pm

Hi magicus & bannoi how are you both

I got my Irish passport card with in 4 days it was very quick indeed

When sending off my RN I sent off my Irish passport, I wasn't sure if they accepted my Irish passport card and hold up the process for my RN..

I feel david Cameron is rushing the Eu referendum for June 23rd. Everything seems to be rushed while he has been PM

Hope to here from you all soon take care from RJF1979

sp84
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by sp84 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:16 pm

chaoclive wrote:
sp84 wrote: Hey chaoclive!

Good to hear from you! (I sent you a PM last week, not sure if you got it or not)? I didn't want to mention you by name without having permission. Aahh I never even thought of sending a copy of my passport picture page - I made a point of saying in my cover letter though that the Irish passport card can only be obtained by current holders of an Irish Passport. I also included the section from the Irish Department of Justice - with the section highlighted showing that even though I was born in Northern Ireland, I am entitled to Irish citizenship. In theory, I thought you had 6 months after renunciation to take up another citizenship anyway?
Hi there
Sorry, I didn't notice your PM! What's up? Don't worry about mentioning me...i'm happy to help if i can.

i'm sure they won't be stupid enough not to recognize the passport card, but they are relatively new so adding a little extra wouldn't be a problem. you do have up to 6 months after renunciation but in our cases it's best to provide everything up front.

(can't be bothered with caps tonight)
Hey choaclive,

It was just a quick question wondering what you thought about the draft proposals that were drawn up last week. Seeing as you have been through the process and understand the legislation currently in place more than most.

I have a more specific question relating to myself - if you don't mind me sending that as a PM too (I'll do that now).

I'm hoping my Irish passport card is enough, the last thing I want is this whole thing being held up.

tigerram
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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by tigerram » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:55 pm

This was on the BBC website this evening, it appears an hour or so ago, regarding a release of documents today:
The documents issued by the European Council on Tuesday briefly restate the broad areas of negotiation set out last week, including proposed limits on the payments of migrants' benefits, new powers for national parliaments and safeguards for countries outside the eurozone.

They also state that if EU leaders endorse the agreement, the new arrangements would become effective on the date the UK government informed the Council it was staying in the EU, were that to be the outcome of the referendum.
So basically, nothing will change before 23rd June.

Locked