MN1 Referee Professionally Engaged With the Child

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:37 pm

Hi All,

I sent an email to UKBA asking whether one Referee needs to be professionally engaged with the Child. I am going to submit my son's MN1 application(Section 3-1) to UKBA through NCS and struggling to find a referee who is professionally engaged. Doctor/Nurse/Health Visitor declined. My work colleague who is profesionally qualified as per UKBA list of acceptable professional persons and have known my son for sometime has agreed to sign the form.

The email from UKBA says

Thank you for your enquiry.

The application must be supported by two referees.

One referee should be a professional who has engaged with the child in a professional capacity such as a teacher, health visitor, social worker or minister of religion.

Please note the underlined section. It means UKBA stressing the fact that one Referee needs to be professionally engaged(Mandatory??).

Anyone would lke to throw any comments. Bit worried about the fact that the application is under section 3(1) which is discretionary and could be rejected on this ground.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards

Samrat

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:09 pm

my advice has not changed since the last time you have asked the exact same question.

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:27 pm

Hi Jambo-Sorry, I did not mean to contradict you but the reply I received from UKBA this afternoon so I thought to get your and other members veiw regarding the issue about professional engagement with the Child, as a referee.

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:20 pm

I didn't think you were trying to contradict me. I was just saying my advice stays the same regardless of what the standard/official answer the HO gave you. Your child won't get his application refused becuase you could not find a professional referee for a 2 years old child. The HO are not so cruel.

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:48 am

Hi Jambo,

My apologies for keep asking for clarification about naturalisation application. I hope you will understand that this is a big step and people do get worried before such a big event of life.

Please note that I have already asked this question and you have replied but this time I would like to ask you in a different way.

I was reading a document from UKBA website, referred as, "CHAPTER 9: REGISTRATION OF MINORS AT DISCRETION"

Section 9.17 says about Future Intention which says If there is any information to make us doubt that the child's future lies here, for example:
•the child, or one or both parents, has recently left the country for aperiod of more than six months

The evidence to be supplied will depend to some extent on the circumstances of the case. Applications should therefore be supported by as much of the following documentary evidence as may be, School letters, school reports, employers’ letters (to provide evidence of residence and future intentions, where necessary)

As you are aware from my previous posts, my son was born in India but entered the country after six months of his birth and after about a year he went back for a 90 days holiday. However, he is in the UK at this moment and will be in the future.

If UKBA want to check future intention of the child, it may be difficult to prove because of the circumstance, although my status will clearly favour the future intention. COnsidering my wife situation who will be applying at a later stage, her absence could go otherwise for my son's application.

My son has not started his school to substaintiate his future intention(Evidence such as School Report or Letter in this case would not be possible to submit to UKBA).

The clause which says "child, or one or both parents, has recently left the country for aperiod of more than six months" should not be applicable but he was away from the UK for 90 days about six month before the application. Not sure whether I should be worried or postponed his application for another few months to look good in terms of his absences and date of application.

My aplogies, I know the above issues have been discussed with you but may not have been discussed in terms of 'Future Intention'.

Please can you give your comments.

Regards

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:59 am

Well it application at discretion so there is always the risk of refusal although for young children, I don't think the HO are so strict. If you prefer, he can apply when your wife applies in 9 months time. If he stays in the UK till then, it will probably reduce the chances for refusal (not so much because of the absences but because both of his parents would be British).

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:43 am

Thanks for your prompt reply. I appreciate your comments about inherent risk associated with MN1 Section 3(1) application.

If I keep the issue of losing the application fee aside, and go ahead with his application along with me and by any reason his application is reject, will it affect my application. This may raise the question of my future intention if my son's application is rejected on that ground. Just want to re-emphasise that all requirements are fulfilled for my AN application. Six years of employement, all the P60 forms, absences only 190 days, letter from my employer confirming Permanent Position.

Also, if his application is rejected this time, can he re apply with my wife. Not sure whether UKBA will give any opputunity for reapplication.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:01 am

His application will not affect yours but your application will affect his.

If the HO refuses his application, he can apply later whenever you wish. Of course, it would be wise to address the reason for refusal before reapplying.

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:10 pm

Thanks Jambo for your reply. Really, it would be difficult to know until I actually apply and get the result back from UKBA. However, from the previous posts in this forum, do you really see much of a risk? I know it will really be difficult to predict but any previous post, same as my situation and successful result. I could not find one, but if there is any success story then please let me know, this will help to build confidence.

Sorry to keep asking but since I have already booked an appointment and now all these issues coming to mind, therefore in a stage of dilemma.

It would be good for me to apply together so that further processes(OCI Card, Indian Passport surrender) could be initiated together.

Regards

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:15 pm

Hi Jambo,

Today I applied my Naturalisation Application, including my son's MN1 form through NCS.

Both our application forms were filled with all the information required but the Referees in both the forms did not put their Passport Number.

Although, our application was accepted but the case worker at the NCS mentioned that this(application without Referees Passport Number) could potentially cause delays.

Do you see any problem.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:44 pm

samrat_g wrote:Hi Jambo,

Today I applied my Naturalisation Application, including my son's MN1 form through NCS.

Both our application forms were filled with all the information required but the Referees in both the forms did not put their Passport Number.

Although, our application was accepted but the case worker at the NCS mentioned that this(application without Referees Passport Number) could potentially cause delays.

Do you see any problem.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards

See similar question - Naturalisation Sent incomplete.

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:48 pm

Hi Jambo, Hope u had a great Christmas. Sorry for coming back to you again. U must be wondering why I still have issues after submitting my naturalisation application. As mentioned earlier, I applied my naturalisation application through NCS on 18th December based on five year residency. something i didnot realise before the application was that the applicant should be present in the UK five years before the date of the application, very basic but still I missed. On 18th December, 2007, I was on my annual leave and outside the country. I came back to the UK on 1st Jan 2008 from my holiday. Anyway, the NCS staff kindly agreed to hold the application till the new year before sending to UKBA. Now, I realised that the AN form has been changed recently. Therefore, from UKBA point of view, I should have used the recent version, since the application will be recived in the new year. Do you see this to be a problem. I Look forward to your reply. Regards

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:35 am

Hi Jambo, Any suggestion regarding my last post. Regards

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:26 am

samrat_g wrote:Hi Jambo, Hope u had a great Christmas. Sorry for coming back to you again. U must be wondering why I still have issues after submitting my naturalisation application. As mentioned earlier, I applied my naturalisation application through NCS on 18th December based on five year residency. something i didnot realise before the application was that the applicant should be present in the UK five years before the date of the application, very basic but still I missed. On 18th December, 2007, I was on my annual leave and outside the country. I came back to the UK on 1st Jan 2008 from my holiday. Anyway, the NCS staff kindly agreed to hold the application till the new year before sending to UKBA. Now, I realised that the AN form has been changed recently. Therefore, from UKBA point of view, I should have used the recent version, since the application will be recived in the new year. Do you see this to be a problem. I Look forward to your reply. Regards

Call NCS and ask them to check with the HO before they post the application. I don't think it's going to be an issue.

samrat_g · Post by **samrat_g** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:48 am

Thanks Jambo for your reply. On a different context, in terms of the arrangement of holding the application till the new year, I hope it will be acceptable to UKBA. What is your view.

The form was signed dated 17th December 2012 but I understand that UKBA will count the 5 year residency from the date of recipt of the application and not from the date mentioned in the application. The NCS staff has assured me that there won't be any issue but would like to get your expert view.

For your information, the NCS staff told me that they can keep applications for 10 working days. I was just lucky to be on the new year side.

Regards

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:51 am

This NCS know their stuff. You will be fine.

M2008 · Post by **M2008** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:59 pm

Jambo wrote:This NCS know their stuff. You will be fine.

Hi Jambo,

I am applying for ILR on 11th Jan 2013 and MN1 for my child immidialty after getting ILR due to travel plan in May.

Can I get references signed before 11th Jan 2013 i.e before getting ILR?

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MN1 Referee Professionally Engaged With the Child

MN1 Referee Professionally Engaged With the Child