new form - evidence for unpaid leave?

[uiqbal]

Hi,
I am on Tier 1 general, going for ILR next week.
I have a question regarding letter of absence, I know that for tier 1, annual paid holiday absence letter is not required but when i came into UK in year 2008 (entered within 28 days), I went back to my home country after getting job offer for 50 days to serve notice period

What do i have to give as evidence for these unpaid holidays, I was paid in my home country for this though but not in UK, that home country company is dissolved now?

Do i have to give any evidence for this, also is this the right reason to mention serving probation period at previous company and does it come in as a compelling reason?

Overall 150 leave out of UK, 100 paid, 50 unpaid in 5 years.

Thanks

[malepiscean]

i came into UK in year 2008 (entered within 28 days), I went back to my home country after getting job offer for 50 days to serve notice period

In absence of precise arrival and departure dates it is rather difficult to answer your question. But, purely based on my gut, if you traveled out of UK after a short period of entering (the first time) - the your ILR clock is likely to start when you came back to UK to start your new job here.

[uiqbal]

Here is my initial timeline.
visa start date 3 jan 2008,
entry in uk 30 jan 2008,
left uk 2 march 2008, unpaid leave.
came back 15 april 2008, started work here - employed since then to now.

[malepiscean]

Here is my initial timeline.
visa start date 3 jan 2008,
entry in uk 30 jan 2008,
left uk 2 march 2008, unpaid leave.
came back 15 april 2008, started work here - employed since then to now.

In that case, your ILR clock should start on 30-Jan-08, but the absence from 03-Mar-08 to 14-Apr-08 (discounting travel days), will be counted as an unpaid absence.

What do i have to give as evidence for these unpaid holidays

The immigration stamps in your passport should be enough.

is this the right reason to mention serving probation period at previous company

IMHO, you should not say anything beyond declaring an unpaid absence at this time - with accurate dates.

does it come in as a compelling reason?

No

[uiqbal]

I will declare it as unpaid holidays, but for tier1 do I have to not provide evidence for unpaid holidays as it says.

from the form
Evidence of absence due to compelling or compassionate reasons is also required from all of the above
categories, and those applying under the Tier 1

Letter from applicant detailing reasons for absence due to compelling or compassionate reasons
Original official documents: (medical/birth/death certificate(s))
Letter from travel companies to evidence disruption to travel
Other

Can you please clarify this, what to provide in this scenario or if I am below 180 days - i don't have to provide any evidence.

[cs95tdg]

According to the statement, I'd say they are asking for evidence for any absence that you list as being due to "serious or compelling reasons" even if it is within the 180 days threshold. The 180 day threshold would still apply for each of the 12 month periods during your 5 year residency here.

Anyone who has execeeded this threshold, for whatever reason would have broken the residency requirement. However a Senior caseworker may consider the case as an "exceptional case" (i.e. apply discretion) if the absence was due to serious or compelling reasons with the appropriate evidence as detailed on page 16.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Absences of more than 180 days in each consecutive 12 month period preceding the date of application (in all categories) will mean the continuous period has been broken. However, consideration may still be given to granting indefinite leave to remain (ILR) outside the rules if evidence is provided to show the excessive absence was due to serious or compelling compassionate reasons.
Evidence, in the form of a letter from the applicant setting out full details of the compelling reason for the absence and supporting documents must be provided.
Absences in excess of 180 days in any 12 month period for employment or economic activity reasons are not considered exceptional.
Discretion will only be applied as authorised at senior executive officer (SEO) level.

[uiqbal]

Does 50 days unpaid leave out of total 150 leave due to family reunion comes under serious or compelling reasons and should i give evidence for that - what evidence out of the four mentioned below?

Should i mention in the reason?
family reunion
unpaid leave

or family reunion unpaid leave?


Also if i use the 07/2012 form which i have completed well before this 13/2012 form for the next week peo appointment, would that be ok?

[cs95tdg]

Does 50 days unpaid leave out of total 150 leave due to family reunion comes under serious or compelling reasons and should i give evidence for that - what evidence out of the four mentioned below?

Should i mention in the reason?
family reunion
unpaid leave

or family reunion unpaid leave?


Also if i use the 07/2012 form which i have completed well before this 13/2012 form for the next week peo appointment, would that be ok?

Unfortunately there is no clear cut yes/no answer to your question as the Tier 1 General policy guidance or immigration rules do not make any reference to unpaid leave for this immigration category. My personal opinion is that, you just list the absence as family reunion/holiday (it isn't a serious or compelling reason) and leave the fact that it was unpaid out. Note that there is no UKBA reference to support this, this is purely my opinion. As you mention you haven't exceeded the 180 day annual absence threshold, I do not see how it can be a problem. Evidence is not required as the absence was not due to a serious or compelling reason. Which form you use, is entirely upto you (they will accept the old form upto Jan 3rd 2013), but personally I would not knowingly use the old form. I'd use the new one.

[madhumesh]

I do not think paid or unpaid leave make any sense for Tier 1 applicant. Many of the them are self employed and probably few would get any payments for voluntary holidays or gaps in employment. It would be impossible for them to provide documentary evidence for every single leave. What I get from immigration rule, they need to provide evidence only if it was for compelling reasons and for rest mere statement should suffice. Hope this is the case

[M2008]

Asking proof only for serious or compelling reason also does not make any sense. What if some one went to attend relative or friend’s funeral and can some one ask friend’s parents for original death certificate for applying ILR? I am going email UBKA above scenario and ask for suggestion and update their reply.

I have 2 short absences for serious or compelling reason and also have document ready. Problem is if mention and submit documents, then they may hold my application for verifying documents.

If we mention any absences from UK reason as to visit family. Then they may ask questions why you need 20 or 30 or even 50 days to visit family.

We do not know exact UBKA intension of asking proof for only for serious or compelling reason. I think there is some catch in their rule and we must prepare for worst.

[hsmp1412]

I am confused - why would anyone declare any holiday as being taken for serious and compelling reasons unless it is more than 180 days per year?

If the absences are less than 180 days per year, then as per the current rules T1G holders do not have to give any proof - isn't that right?

[akash08]

I am confused - why would anyone declare any holiday as being taken for serious and compelling reasons unless it is more than 180 days per year?

If the absences are less than 180 days per year, then as per the current rules T1G holders do not have to give any proof - isn't that right?

This is exactly my question. Why would someone be so stupid to declare a leave for compelling reason when not exceeding 180 days limit? This rule can only and only be when you want special consideration for compelling reasons!!

Also on the initial question to the topic maker - they are not asking for any evidence whether the leave was paid or unpaid when you are on Tier 1. So, why do you bother to declare it as unpaid?? First - it was not unpaid and 2nd none asked you to be super honest and declare everything.. Just say business trip..

[M2008]

I am confused - why would anyone declare any holiday as being taken for serious and compelling reasons unless it is more than 180 days per year?

If the absences are less than 180 days per year, then as per the current rules T1G holders do not have to give any proof - isn't that right?

If you declare as serious and compelling reasons, irrespective of number of days - you need to give proof

I have single trip 60 days outside, if i give reason as family visit-> then case worker may ask
why 60days? or are your salary paid during that time? or are you out of job that time? so on

[madhumesh]

I think we need clarification on text highlighted in red, what they consider right reasons. And they are NOT asking any proof for these reasons in Tier 1 case.

In the following categories, absences must be for reasons connected with the applicant’s for being in the UK or for serious or compelling compassionate reasons. Evidence, specified above, must be provided for compelling or compassionate reasons only:

 UK ancestry
 business person
 investor
 innovator
 writer, composer, or artist
 retired person of independent means
 Tier 1 (General)
 Highly skilled migrant programme (not applying under Appendix S of the rules)

[humanvoid]

I have a similar situation when I had to leave UK for about month and this was the reply from ukba settlement team:

"I am afraid this absence would not be covered by the new policy for calculating the continuous period, as it is not related to the purpose for which you were granted a visa to enter the UK, and would therefore break the continuous period for ILR."

Look like a new catch to "reduce numbers".

[hsmp1412]

This is a bit worrying and then what about self employed people - all their holidays are always unpaid!
Also what is the maximum number of days that you can pass off as a family visit holiday without being questioned for it?

[humanvoid]

I am still not getting how this relates to Tier1 General. Yes, page 11 of ilr calculating continuous guidance says:
"absences must be for reasons connected with the applicant’s purpose for being in the UK or for serious or compelling compassionate reasons" and this was exactly ukba response relies on. However I can not see that requirement for ilr (Tier1-G) in the actual immigration rules which should basically prevail.

The only relief is "evidence, as specified above, must be provided for compelling or compassionate reasons only".

Would appreciate if someone could take a second look at this as well.

[M2008]

I have a similar situation when I had to leave UK for about month and this was the reply from ukba settlement team:

"I am afraid this absence would not be covered by the new policy for calculating the continuous period, as it is not related to the purpose for which you were granted a visa to enter the UK, and would therefore break the continuous period for ILR."

Look like a new catch to "reduce numbers".

Can you paste question you asked UKBA?

[humanvoid]

I have a similar situation when I had to leave UK for about month and this was the reply from ukba settlement team:

"I am afraid this absence would not be covered by the new policy for calculating the continuous period, as it is not related to the purpose for which you were granted a visa to enter the UK, and would therefore break the continuous period for ILR."

Look like a new catch to "reduce numbers".

Can you paste question you asked UKBA?

See original question below:

"Dear Settlement Support Team,
I would appreciate if you could advise on a matter below as soon as possible.
When first arrived, I have stayed in UK for 2.5 month to find a job before leaving for about 1 month to finish with my previous employer and came back to start a new job. I am under Tier1 General visa.
In view of recent changes in immigration rules concerning absences for ILR SET(O), am I required to provide evidence for this absence which was in order to serve a notice with my last employer back in my country of origin? And if so, what kind of evidence it should be?
As I understand, this absence is not considered to be for compelling or compassionate reasons and it is not clear from guidance for Tier1 General how this sort of leaves should be dealt with."

And the second reply on follow-up email to clarify "not related to the purpose" wording:
"The original purpose of your visa was to work in the UK. You have stated you were out of the UK in order to terminate your employment in your country of origin, therefore, this absence was not related to your employment in the UK.
I cannot advise on individual applications, but can tell you that this absence would constitute a break in the continuous period for ILR."

[humanvoid]

This also has been discussed here:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=120750

And as I thought the guidance they use does not correctly reflect immigration rules where Tier1-G is clearly excluded from these absences' requirement.

[M2008]

I have a similar situation when I had to leave UK for about month and this was the reply from ukba settlement team:

"I am afraid this absence would not be covered by the new policy for calculating the continuous period, as it is not related to the purpose for which you were granted a visa to enter the UK, and would therefore break the continuous period for ILR."

Look like a new catch to "reduce numbers".

Can you paste question you asked UKBA?

See original question below:

"Dear Settlement Support Team,
I would appreciate if you could advise on a matter below as soon as possible.
When first arrived, I have stayed in UK for 2.5 month to find a job before leaving for about 1 month to finish with my previous employer and came back to start a new job. I am under Tier1 General visa.
In view of recent changes in immigration rules concerning absences for ILR SET(O), am I required to provide evidence for this absence which was in order to serve a notice with my last employer back in my country of origin? And if so, what kind of evidence it should be?
As I understand, this absence is not considered to be for compelling or compassionate reasons and it is not clear from guidance for Tier1 General how this sort of leaves should be dealt with."

And the second reply on follow-up email to clarify "not related to the purpose" wording:
"The original purpose of your visa was to work in the UK. You have stated you were out of the UK in order to terminate your employment in your country of origin, therefore, this absence was not related to your employment in the UK.
I cannot advise on individual applications, but can tell you that this absence would constitute a break in the continuous period for ILR."

For your question, they have replayed as per below wording in rule

If the absences are in connection with other employment outside the UK, which demonstrates the UK employment is secondary, these are not permitted absences, and the continuous period requirement is considered broken

You better to mention your leave as to visit family

[humanvoid]

For your question, they have replayed as per below wording in rule

If the absences are in connection with other employment outside the UK, which demonstrates the UK employment is secondary, these are not permitted absences, and the continuous period requirement is considered broken

You better to mention your leave as to visit family[/quote]


Thank you for reply, but I have seen that and there was no UK employment at that time to be considered as a secondary. And I am not sure how family visit is connected with purpose for being in the UK.

What I want to point out is that there is some sort of discrepancy between that guidance and immigration rules regarding Tier1-G absences.

[Bildor]

i think i agree with humanvoid.

There seems to be some sort of conflict here.

[M2008]

For your question, they have replayed as per below wording in rule

If the absences are in connection with other employment outside the UK, which demonstrates the UK employment is secondary, these are not permitted absences, and the continuous period requirement is considered broken

You better to mention your leave as to visit family


Thank you for reply, but I have seen that and there was no UK employment at that time to be considered as a secondary. And I am not sure how family visit is connected with purpose for being in the UK.

What I want to point out is that there is some sort of discrepancy between that guidance and immigration rules regarding Tier1-G absences.

But you are proving that you had a primary employment during that period. It is good reason for them to reject based on new rule.

Family visit means -> you can tell on holiday to visit family.

You email again UBKA with different email asking questions

1. Do I need to submit any proof on holiday when I was unemployed in UK?
2. Do I need to submit any proof on holiday when I was unpaid leaves?
3. Any limit on number days outside UK for above 1 & 2 cases?

The original purpose of tier 1: The Tier 1 (General) category allows highly skilled people to look for work or self-employment opportunities in the UK. Tier 1 (General) migrants can seek employment in the UK without a sponsor, and can take up self-employment and business opportunities here.‘look for work’ -> So you can be unemployed until you get work.

They are not very clear on Tier 1 (general), as per their rule we need to work as slaves without holidays

[humanvoid]

But you are proving that you had a primary employment during that period. It is good reason for them to reject based on new rule.

Family visit means -> you can tell on holiday to visit family.

You email again UBKA with different email asking questions

1. Do I need to submit any proof on holiday when I was unemployed in UK?
2. Do I need to submit any proof on holiday when I was unpaid leaves?
3. Any limit on number days outside UK for above 1 & 2 cases?

The original purpose of tier 1: The Tier 1 (General) category allows highly skilled people to look for work or self-employment opportunities in the UK. Tier 1 (General) migrants can seek employment in the UK without a sponsor, and can take up self-employment and business opportunities here.‘look for work’ -> So you can be unemployed until you get work.

They are not very clear on Tier 1 (general), as per their rule we need to work as slaves without holidays

Thanks M2008 for not giving up on this confusing matter, appreciated.

Actually I asked them to clarify which reasons are "in connection with purpose to be in UK", got nothing in reply.

What is wrong with being employed while you look for work in UK anyway? It wasn't requirement to quit your current job and I am sure it does not oppose common sense.

And nothing like this said in immigration rules, so I guess they are just speculating, typical.