Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to ECJ

[rosebead]

Half of EU countries for example Spain actually generously issue Article 10 residence cards to their nationals without the necessity of exercising Treaty rights in another country. This was discussed earlier in the thread. I don't think Germany is one of these countries though, in which case a German citizen has to do the Surinder Singh route for his family member to be eligible for a residence card under EU law. If it does not say "family member of an EU national" on the residence card, it's unlikely to be a valid card for travel to the UK.

[clnsen]

BA said we would need a visa :] So we will fly another airline and visit another country and spend our money there

[rosebead]

^ I don't blame you, it's UK's loss.

[residentcards]

I applied for residency as the family member of EU national.I was issued EU community resident card yesterday. Why did they not issue me new credit-card size resident card but still old-style paper one with 5 years vilidity ? Can I go to UK with old stytle resident card issued in Germany?

[Lolabora]

BA said we would need a visa :] So we will fly another airline and visit another country and spend our money there

NOT ANYMORE! Read https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... e.pdf.html


...
Immediate impact for carriers

5. Following the judgment in McCarthy, carriers may receive requests to board non-EEA
passengers who present residence cards issued by other Member States as evidence
of their right to be admitted to the UK.

6. Where a non-EEA national passenger presents a document which they assert is a
residence card issued by another EEA Member State, carriers should only accept such
documents where they are absolutely confident that the document is a genuine, valid
residence card issued under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC.

7. It will be for carriers to determine whether or not to convey to the border passengers
who are able to present a valid EU Family Member residence card issued under Article
10 but who do not hold a family permit. Should they seek confirmation from the Home
Office that they will not be exposed to a carriers’ liability penalty for carrying such a
passenger, you should advise that that will depend on whether the document in
question is fraudulent or invalid....

[Rolfus]

Let us not lose sight of the fact that "joining" can mean the EEA national arriving after the TCM. Perhaps several months after.
See http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... geria.html paragraph 19.

[martiner99]

Hi guys, just wanted to give you an update regarding our travel back to UK without Family Permit. As I have discussed earlier here (Slovak national with Iranian wife), we had to travel back to Slovakia for a week and were worried how to re-enter UK without FP.

Some people advised me here not to take plane, I had that confirmed with UK Border Agency, but they were very unclear about our options. In the end, I called there every other day just to see what they say, and all the time it was a different answer. From - you should be fine - to - without FP you won't be allowed to enter. When I claimed that their colleague said something different, all i heard was - I cannot comment on my colleague. I thought it is both funny and sad at the same time. Even told them so.

So in the end, last Sunday, we left Budapest on plane to Brussels and took bus from Brussels to London via Eurotunnel. I got all the possible documents with me. Officer at the border was actually very understanding, looked at our marriage certificate, my wife's COA for RC, and my last payslip .... then went to make a 1 minute phone call, came back and said that there is no problem, stamped my wife's passport and off we went. Took us about 3 minutes to get through. Then a plane to Edinburgh, and after 22 hours of traveling we got home and found envelope from HO with RC waiting for us.

Thought it might help someone, if you have COA and marriage certificate and proof of employment, seems like officers at Eurotunnel will not give you troubles, they told me it happens quite a lot there. Good luck.

[candy2012]

Dear all

I am british citizen. I am living in Germany with my mother and my wife.they have German Residence Permit.We are not here in Germany from long time.We came 3 month before and I started self employment.We have Plan to attend My brother's convocation in July in Scotland.
So my question is that My mother and wife still need residence permit? because they hold long term German Residence permit.
and If i am applying For residence permit under surinder singh, is it hard to get ?

thanks

[doncgeorge123]

Hi Friends,

I am a British Citizen and self-employed in Germany. My wife is an Indian and working as a Veterinary Doctor in Germany.
I moved to Germany by Dec 2014 and she was already a resident in Germany since 2011.
April 2015, she received EU Family Permit (Residence Card of a family member of a Union Citizen) due to the exercising of free movement by me.
(We got married only in last Sept 2014).
My questions are

1) If we want to visit UK for a short visit like a month or so, does she need any visa?
2) Whether we are allowed to go back and settle in UK as I exercised free movement for more than 4 months and my centre of life is in Germany. ( We got a rented accommodation and and she is having a permanent job here )

Please guide us. This forum is really supporting the people who is in a doubt about immigration.
Thanks

[acme4242]

The Home Office avoidance and evasion of a simple question means they are embarrassed to answer a simple FOI request, because it means their Regulations 9 cannot be used as requirements for entry for 2004/38/EC Art 10 card holders re McCarthy (Case C-202/13)

The question need to be repeated in different forms by different people until there is no evasion.

Question
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-442105

Dear Home Office,

Please could you provide any documents, whether paper or
electronic, showing your border policy for admission of non-EEA
family members of British citizens with a non-UK residence card
obtained under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC.

This is because I want to know whether the UK will accept for entry
Article 10 residence cards of family members of British citizens
without requiring them to satisfy Regulation 9 of the Immigration
(EEA) Regulations before entry. In light of CJEU Mcarthy (Case
C-202/13), I believe the UK are obliged to accept for visa-free
entry all Article 10 residence cards issued by other Member States
without further entrance requirements needing to be satisfied.

Yours faithfully,

Answer
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... r.pdf.html

Thank you for your e-mail of 8th May 2015 in which you ask for:

“any documents.. showing your border policy for admission of non-EEA family members of
British citizens with a non-UK residence card obtained under Article 10 of Directive
2004/38/EC”.

Your request is being handled as a request for information under the Freedom of
Information Act 2000.

We are considering your request. Although the Act carries a presumption in favour of
disclosure, it provides exemptions which may be used to withhold information in specified
circumstances. Some of these exemptions, referred to as ‘qualified exemptions’, are
subject to a public interest test. This test is used to balance the public interest in
disclosure against the public interest in favour of withholding the information. The Act
allows us to exceed the 20 working day response target where we need to consider the
public interest test fully.

The information which you have requested is being considered under the exemption in
section 31 of the Act, which relates to law enforcement. This is a qualified exemption and
to consider the public interest test fully we need to extend the 20 working day response
period. We now aim to let you have a full response by 6th July 2015.

Yours sincerely

L. Picton
Information Rights Team

Switchboard 020 7035 4848

[kyanfar]

My partner and I arrived in Luton Airport in the UK on 20th April 2015. We proceeded to the passport control gates assigned to the EEA and EU citizens. There I presented my residence card which is issued in Germany under article 10 of the Directive 2004/38 and my passport. I was denied the right to enter at that moment and was detained. Meanwhile my Partner was told that he can go ahead and collect the luggage and leave me there. At this stage it was not clear that what was the decision as to whether allow me to enter the UK or not. My partner refused to do so and he insisted that he will stay with me until we knew what the decision was. Meanwhile, I reminded the border officer that I should be allowed to enter the UK with my passport, a resident card issued under article 10 to family members of a union citizen if my EU national family member is accompanying me according to the UK government website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card. He insisted that he never heard of such a ground as to allow people to enter and insisted that such a rule does not exist. I had the UK government website page on this matter on my phone and showed it to him and at this stage he was confused. Subsequently in my response, when I asked him why I was being detained, he replied that previously I was denied a visa and my name is in their blacklist. I pointed out that It was not a visa but an EEA Family Permit which the UK clearly and without any doubt refused to issue me with one in the past. He gave me a paper which detailed the information on why I was being detained. He consulted the officer who was sitting next to him and he was advised that I should not be allowed to enter with a resident card of a family member of a union citizen unless it was issued by the UK. We were led to a corner to sit and wait for the officer who was serving us. He returned and told us that he talked to his boss about me and that I was living in Germany and there is no reason that I should not be allowed to enter the UK under being an Australian national and not a family member of an EU citizen. My partner asked him whether this problem, me being in their blacklist of entry, would cause me more trouble in the future and his answer was that he was recommending my name be removed. He stamped my passport with a notice of "leave to remain in the UK for 6 months" as a tourist..

UKBA officers have no idea about any new regulation concerning EU and EEA nationals and their non EU/EEA family member. It is always the case with the UK that, it takes 9 years to implement he correct rule, but just on the paper, and another 9 years and some more court cases on the same issue to implement fully....... This will never change in the UK. With their lost drop of blood, they make sure that non EEA/EU family members are to be hindered....

[cafeconleche]

Were you moving to the UK to live? If not, why did you bother with the EEA FP instead of entering on the strength of your passport?

If you WERE moving to the UK, then you ought to have demanded that you be admitted under EEA family rules. But, I can understand if you didn't want to bother with it.

[londonimm1]

Would love to talk to you about this, I have been researching this very subject .. for an article.

[kyanfar]

Were you moving to the UK to live? If not, why did you bother with the EEA FP instead of entering on the strength of your passport?

If you WERE moving to the UK, then you ought to have demanded that you be admitted under EEA family rules. But, I can understand if you didn't want to bother with it.

The officer was adamant that such a rule did not exist. However, the point is that, regardless of my intention as to whether I wanted to remain in the UK or not, UKBA, intentionally or unintentionally, was determined what I said was just a fantasy of mine... I do not blame the officer... I do blame the big boss.. The oficer was so ignorant and illiterate about his job that could not contemplate that I could apply for a residence card of a family member EEA nationals, even though I entered as a tourist even based on my Australian nationality. I pushed my luck with him and even ask to talk to a superior but no luck at all... I think the case is that superiors are the only one who are aware of the rules in place, but are instructed to keep to to themselves and not spread them out. All they know in the EU passport gates is that, you are OK to enter if you are an EEA national or if not, you are a holder of a residence card of family members of EEA national issued in the UK. Otherwise, god helps you trying to make them understand....

I did not apply for an EEA Family Permit as you suggested, as I was sure that my German residence card of a family member of a union citizen alongside my passport and being accompanied with my EU national partner should have been entirely enough to enter the UK, on the basis of recent McCarthy ruling.

The reason I posted my experience was to prove that even as an Australian, UKBA does not honor its obligation towards EU nationals and their non-EU family members. I could ignore going through this problem and enter the UK just based on being Australian, however, I wanted to see how well-aware are UKBA staffs.... If it sis not work for me as an Australian, all of us can imagine what is the change for other non-EU family members who are supposed to bear a visa to enter the UK.....

Another point is that airlines staffs are not aware of these changes... this is another story in its own....

[kyanfar]

Would love to talk to you about this, I have been researching this very subject .. for an article.

glad to help you out....

[rosebead]

Thanks for posting your story kyanfar. It's shocking that UK border guards are so woefully trained. Perhaps you should make a complaint to the European Commission.

[vinny]

Were they unaware of 11(4) and 13 too?

[doncgeorge123]

My partner and I arrived in Luton Airport in the UK on 20th April 2015. We proceeded to the passport control gates assigned to the EEA and EU citizens. There I presented my residence card which is issued in Germany under article 10 of the Directive 2004/38 and my passport. I was denied the right to enter at that moment and was detained. Meanwhile my Partner was told that he can go ahead and collect the luggage and leave me there. At this stage it was not clear that what was the decision as to whether allow me to enter the UK or not. My partner refused to do so and he insisted that he will stay with me until we knew what the decision was. Meanwhile, I reminded the border officer that I should be allowed to enter the UK with my passport, a resident card issued under article 10 to family members of a union citizen if my EU national family member is accompanying me according to the UK government website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card. He insisted that he never heard of such a ground as to allow people to enter and insisted that such a rule does not exist. I had the UK government website page on this matter on my phone and showed it to him and at this stage he was confused. Subsequently in my response, when I asked him why I was being detained, he replied that previously I was denied a visa and my name is in their blacklist. I pointed out that It was not a visa but an EEA Family Permit which the UK clearly and without any doubt refused to issue me with one in the past. He gave me a paper which detailed the information on why I was being detained. He consulted the officer who was sitting next to him and he was advised that I should not be allowed to enter with a resident card of a family member of a union citizen unless it was issued by the UK. We were led to a corner to sit and wait for the officer who was serving us. He returned and told us that he talked to his boss about me and that I was living in Germany and there is no reason that I should not be allowed to enter the UK under being an Australian national and not a family member of an EU citizen. My partner asked him whether this problem, me being in their blacklist of entry, would cause me more trouble in the future and his answer was that he was recommending my name be removed. He stamped my passport with a notice of "leave to remain in the UK for 6 months" as a tourist..

UKBA officers have no idea about any new regulation concerning EU and EEA nationals and their non EU/EEA family member. It is always the case with the UK that, it takes 9 years to implement he correct rule, but just on the paper, and another 9 years and some more court cases on the same issue to implement fully....... This will never change in the UK. With their lost drop of blood, they make sure that non EEA/EU family members are to be hindered....

----------------------------------------

Hi ,

From your post I can understand that you are an Australian Citizen. But may I ask what is the nationality of your partner. I am asking this coz, I am a British and my wife is Indian and we are being in Germany for the past 6 months and she is holding a Residence card of a family member of EU Citizen. So I wonder will this allow me and her to visit UK for a short time.

Please help...

[kyanfar]

Thanks for posting your story kyanfar. It's shocking that UK border guards are so woefully trained. Perhaps you should make a complaint to the European Commission.

I am communicating with Solvit.... Meanwhile, working on my complaint to send to the EC......

[kyanfar]

Were they unaware of 11(4) and 13 too?

Based on my two experiences, once in Calais and second time in Luton, UKBA did not land me based on 11(4) and 13.....

As I mentioned in my comprehensive post, one would be admitted to the UK without any hassle if is an EU national or is in possession of a residence card which is issued on the basis of article 10 in the UK.... Otherwise, I stress on this "based on my experiences", either UKBA staffs are not aware of it or they are instructed not to follow it......

[kyanfar]

Hi ,

From your post I can understand that you are an Australian Citizen. But may I ask what is the nationality of your partner. I am asking this coz, I am a British and my wife is Indian and we are being in Germany for the past 6 months and she is holding a Residence card of a family member of EU Citizen. So I wonder will this allow me and her to visit UK for a short time.

Please help...[/quote]

Hi,

My partner is Irish.

In principle, you and your wife, mainly your wife, should be able to visit the UK if she holds a Residence Card of a Family Member of the Union Citizen issued in Germany, the same as me, and you accompanying her. However, UKBA can still ask for the proof of your relationship, which in your case would be a marriage certificate.

The biggest obstacle would be to board on the plane... You need to verify this with whichever airline you intend to travel. If the airline does not agree your wife would not be able to board. In my opinion, it is not good to deal with this delicate matter on the spot, once you are in the airport... My advice, deal with it before and get something to confirm that your wife can board in writing, either email or a letter.

You are aware of CTA, common travel area. You and your wife could fly to Dublin, where they are well aware of this regulation and then fly from Dublin to your destination in the UK as your flight from Republic of Ireland to the UK would be treated domestically.

I hope I was of help..

Do not hesitate to contact me should you have more questions...

G'day

[mgb]

@kyanfar
As far as I understand your story your right to enter the UK was denied because your name was on the blacklist and not because you presented a residence card for a family member of a eea citizen.
The question is if the UK is seeing now a person with a denied family permit as a risk to public order or public security and add his name to the blacklist.
In your case the officer in charge for a decision had no idea how to explain to the australian ambassador why a australian citizen is on a blacklist for a denied FP/Visa and let you go with a tourist stamp.

[ppp]

Hi, I am a British national and I just traveled from Malta with my elderly dependent mother who has an EU Residence card (under art 10 Directive 2004/38). She was detained in the airport (I stayed with her of course) for over 3 hours. The fact that she had an EU RC was irrelevant to them, they said she needed a visa. They kept her passport and RC. They said she had previous visa refusals and that was sighted as a problem (it should be irrelevant since she is coming as a family member of an EU citizen). They were prepared to deport us but it being a night they allowed us to go home and come later for an interview.
Any advice is greatly appreciated
TIA

[tebee]

Are you a British national with EEA rights ? As what her rights are in this situation is very much dependent on that.

[ppp]

Yes I am a British national and was exercising Free Movement Rights in another EU Member State. I lived and worked there for nearly 5 months. Then I decided to apply for Family Permit for UK for my dependent (elderly and frail) mother. It was rejected for a host of reasons, starting with her previous visa refusals (settlement in the UK), then they didn't like my work evidence (didn't look at payslips and were confused with bank statements) and Centre of Life. So I decided that my mother can accompany me to the UK without FP but just with her EU RC. We were detained. They insisted we should have appealed against the FP decision and couldn't come without a visa. My mother is not a threat to anything, she had had a perfect immigration history until we applied for settlement in the UK for her (we did't realize then that it was an unwritten ban and the rules would be impossible to satisfy).
Now they want us back for an interview and will probably want to stamp her passport with a refused entry stamp.
Is there anything I can do?
Thank you