How to stay in France for a non-EU person?

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:27 am

Hello,

sorry for my english i'm French.

One year ago i meet my girlfriend (M.) in France. She was there with a "Working/Holidays" visa that she asked from Australia. Last summer this visa finished and she came back to Australia. In order to come back in France to live with me she asked for a student VISA (she also wanted to learn French at University). The 31 of August 2012 the answer was negative.
She came in France in September as a tourist (so for 3 months). As she moved a few days in other countrys out of Schengen, the end of those 3 monthes is in a few days.
We are not ready to get married and we are looking for a way to make her stay longer.

Maybe we'll go ask for a schengen VISA (Working/Holiday) in Germany because we've heard that in Germany it's easy for people from Australia to have a VISA.
If we don't do this we really don't know what else to do.

Do some people have advices to give us?
Thank you very much
Matt

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:59 pm

If you were married, you could live in an EU country (other than France) under the terms of directive 2004/38/EC. This means that if you are a worker, student or self-sufficient person, your spouse can be with you.

Start studying this.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode ... =387153:cs

If you wish to live in France right away, you may need to satisfy the French immigration laws.

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:11 pm

Hi EUsmiileWEallsmile and thank you for your help.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:If you were married, you could live in an EU country (other than France) under the terms of directive 2004/38/EC. This means that if you are a worker, student or self-sufficient person, your spouse can be with you.

I know that if we were married we could live together in France and she could work, etc. But for the moment, we'd like to find another way. We are not "ready" to get married...

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: Start studying this.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode ... =387153:cs

I began to read this.
It's kind of texte of the "schengen rules", right? it's interesting but i don't think it is in this document i'll find what i'm looking for.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: If you wish to live in France right away, you may need to satisfy the French immigration laws.

Yes, that what we would like but except of the wedding, we don't know anything else that could help us. That's why i'm here. maybe there is another way that we don't know.

sorry if i didn't understand perfectly some of the things you wrote
thank you again for your help

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:59 pm

matt06 wrote: We are not ready to get married and we are looking for a way to make her stay longer.

I'm sorry, I had misread this first time round. If there are no family ties to you, then the directive I'd linked to will not help.

In that case, your girlfriend would have to find a way of staying in Europe on her own account. With a few days left on her visa, I'm not sure that this is realistic.

Neither, the UK nor Ireland are in Schengen and it may be possible for you and her to holiday there together (to buy you some time).

frei · Post by **frei** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:11 am

Have you considered applying as partners?

A foreign-national partner in a "civil solidarity pact" (PACS) can obtain a permit to live in France ("permit de sejour") if their partner is a French* citizen, subject to a 1 year waiting period. It is subject to annual renewal through the local Mayor's office and permanent residence (a 10 year permit) is possible after 5 years.

I do not know if that will help in shaping your decision? Unmarried couples have just about the same right as married couples in France

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:17 pm

frei wrote:Have you considered applying as partners?

A foreign-national partner in a "civil solidarity pact" (PACS) can obtain a permit to live in France ("permit de sejour") if their partner is a French* citizen, subject to a 1 year waiting period. It is subject to annual renewal through the local Mayor's office and permanent residence (a 10 year permit) is possible after 5 years.

Yes, i've seriously thought about it but the problem is that even if it is more than one year that we are in a relationship (and since september 2012 we live together) we can't proove anything.
For example, i've read on internet that to proove this, we have to show joint bank account that was created a long time ago (we don't have this) or bills with our two names (we don't have this neigher). I've read that written documents by neighboors for example are not enough.
:/

frei · Post by **frei** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:25 pm

If you don't have proof as you have said, I would assume it would be a next to impossible task to achieve, from what I'v read so far, before you get pacsed you must have lived together for 6 months minimum, and you would need to show proof for that. I would not be able to assist you further as I do not have a wealth of information with regards the French immigration to see if there were other options available to you.

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:44 am

I've been PACS in the past and i don't remember that i had to proove to live since 6 months with the other personn.
but even if i get PACS, she can't have a VISA

I went on this website because on French Official websites,there is not a lot of details about documents and things to do and i do not find any french forum specialised on VISA.

Do you know who could help me?
i've sent an email to the official "europe website" (http://europa.eu/youreurope/advice/index_fr.htm) but they need something like 10 days to answer.

Well, maybe you can help me about this question:
As France refused her a Visitor VISA the 31/08/12, is it possible that Germany refuse her a Working/Holiday VISA? in fact, we think that before the end of the week she'll ask this VISA wich is a "+1 Transit Schengen VISA" and she'll come back in France.
is there a lot of risks?
thanks

frei · Post by **frei** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:46 am

Do you know who could help me?

Keep posting, hopefully a member that has knowledge about the French immigration would find your post and assist you, I do not know anyone personally,I will have to check if i do have any information I shall revert to you.

I also do not know, if the Europa agency website you quoted could help you, they normally say 10 working days but expect a reply from them in about 2-3 working days. Does you partner have a kiwi citizenship? (New zealand).

Her refusal by France would not trigger a refusal by the Germans, in fact there are hundreds if not thousand of Australians in Germany on working holiday visa, seems it's quite easy for them to get in Australia.

is there a lot of risks?

There are not much risk or risk at all, as she would then supposed to be in Germany a Schengen country, the French authority if they ever get to question her cannot confirm if she is staying in France or not, she could just say I came here yesterday, going back in 2 days time, there would be no stamp placed in her passport when she travel within the zone.

You have to ask questions about how long you will be prepared to go through travelling back and forth? you will need to find a permanent solution to this if you see yourself together for the longer time.

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Well, thank you for your help.

Nowadays we are thinking about another possibility... cheaper and easier
It could be good that you give your opinion.

To make the story easier, i didn't say that my girlfriend has differents nationalitys (and passeports).
We are thinking about making her leaving France at the end of the week with one of the passeport (the one she used to come in France 3 months ago) to the country X. 2 days later she would come from this country X with another passeport in order to stay 3 more months in France.

We think that "autoritys" doesn't link information about passeport of people without legal trouble.

We know that 3 months later we'll have a new problem but it is just to give her a little bit more time to think about a real good solution.

What do you think about this?

Thank you very much

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:24 pm

matt06 wrote:Well, thank you for your help.

Nowadays we are thinking about another possibility... cheaper and easier
It could be good that you give your opinion.

To make the story easier, i didn't say that my girlfriend has 3 nationalitys (and 3 passeports).
We are thinking about making her leaving France at the end of the week with her Australian passeport (the one she used to come in France 3 months ago) to Israel. 2 days later she would come from Israel with her Israelian passeport in order to stay 3 more months in France.

We think that "autoritys" doesn't link information about passeport of people without legal trouble.

We know that 3 months later we'll have a new problem but it is just to give her a little bit more time to think about a real good solution.

What do you think about this?

Thank you very much

What nationalities does she have?

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:24 pm

frei · Post by **frei** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:26 pm

That was why I asked if she has kiwi passport, New zealand citizens can stay for an extended period inside Schengen, it is an agreement between the New zealand Government and the EC. I was going to suggest she re-enter on the kiwi passport and she would be able to stay as long as 6 months.

In this case Israeli passport, there would be absolutely no problem at all, she can definitely re-enter on her Israeli passport and spend another 3 months it would be no problem.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:30 pm

frei wrote: In this case Israeli passport, there would be absolutely no problem at all, she can definitely re-enter on her Israeli passport and spend another 3 months it would be no problem at all.

I'm not convinced that this would be acceptable. It may cause problems in the future.

frei · Post by **frei** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:34 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
frei wrote: In this case Israeli passport, there would be absolutely no problem at all, she can definitely re-enter on her Israeli passport and spend another 3 months it would be no problem at all.
I'm not convinced that this would be acceptable. It may cause problems in the future.

There was an Australian citizen who overstayed his 1 year long working holiday visa in Germany, he was worried about getting banned when exiting the Schengen area, but in his case he is also a kiwi citizen, he made contacts with the New zealand embassy who advised that he can further stay in Germany for a certain period relying on his kiwi passport, and should exit with his kiwi passport not on the Australia passport. I suppose it should be ok, OP can investigate further.

frei · Post by **frei** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:40 pm

Also in OP's case, his partner would have first exited and re-enter using another nationality. It should be fine, but as I said OP can investigate further.

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:23 pm

What is OP?

frei · Post by **frei** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:43 pm

matt06 wrote:What is OP?

OP means Original Poster

frei · Post by **frei** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:45 pm

http://www.legavox.fr/forum/etrangers/i ... en-france/

http://www.forum.immigrer.com/

you might try these fora out

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:26 pm

Thank you for your help

I'll keep you in touch

Mathieu

matt06 · Post by **matt06** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:22 pm

Hi all

just to say that she could come back using another passport.
this is not a long term solution but for the moment it's like this and it's OK.
thank you for your help

frei · Post by **frei** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:19 pm

Good for you Mathieu, although this isn't a permanent solution it would however buy you time before you find a means. Good luck.

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